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NFL season 14-15

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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:06 am

IcePack wrote:Hope none of you had Adrian Peterson in your fantasy Line up


This one's kinda odd to me. On one hand, it just sounds like corporal punishment, which I don't think there's actually a law against but it's very much frowned upon these days. On the other hand, he used a switch which could be considered excessive force.

Either way, reeaally bad week for the NFL, and that's not even talking about the puke-inducing spectacle that was TNF...
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:11 am

Yeah, Goodell's in a gots to go situation right now. League is falling apart and he's under so much scrutiny himself.

If I was an owner I'd fire him as a scapegoat, at the very least. Get some positive PR.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby nietzsche on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:27 am

but why is the NFL full of delinquents?

honest question, i don't know much about NFL but they have like 3 years with these problems don't they? and why doesn't the whitehouse intervene like they did in MLB (given that it's almost obvious that the steroids are acting on the mood of the players)
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:16 am

The white house never got involved, Congress did. And it was really stupid.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby nietzsche on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:06 am

Same shit.

Government getting its nose in a private business.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby patches70 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:59 am

Army of GOD wrote:Yeah, Goodell's in a gots to go situation right now. League is falling apart and he's under so much scrutiny himself.

If I was an owner I'd fire him as a scapegoat, at the very least. Get some positive PR.


I just have to ask, why is Goodell in "gots to go" situation? I don't see how the bad judgement calls and crimes players commit off the field is somehow Goodell's fault. I mean, if the cashier working at McDonalds goes home and beats the shit out of his wife, should the general manager of the McDonalds he works at be fired?

And I don't see how the league is "falling apart" either. Hell, were you worried about the league falling apart when what's his name from the Patriots and his buddies (allegedly) murdered that dude a little while back? I think that's a bit worse than the beating Rice's now wife.

Or the player before that when he shot himself, I think after he killed his wife or something, can't remember his name or the team.

Now I can see why Baltimore cut Rice, that's well within their rights and Rice will have a nice severance package I would guess. But banning the guy for life? I dunno about that, it doesn't make sense. Not that Rice would have much of a chance of ever getting picked up by any other team because that would just be a PR nightmare for such a team.

I just don't think Goodell has to justify anything. Baltimore cutting Rice is the only thing that makes sense to me. Hell, Vick killed how many dogs? There are people who would think killing all those poor canines is even worse than punching a lady out cold, but he wasn't banned for life. It was a criminal matter and was handled in criminal court. Vick served his time and he should and is allowed to make a living. But not so for Rice?
Rice's situation is a criminal matter as well, the courts handle that and when it's all done and said, why should he be denied making a living at what he does?

Now before anyone yells at me, I'm not defending Rice. Or Goodell for that matter, I'm just trying to get to the reasoning as to why Goodell is responsible for Rice's decisions off the football field. It looks like blacklisting to me and I'm not sure that's a good thing. Like I said, even if Goodell had just kept the punishment at the 2 game suspension, it's not like Rice is going to be able to ever get picked up by another team because any team that might pick him up also takes on that PR nightmare and to a football owner that's a horse they don't want to get saddled with. And that makes sense.

Now, for myself I never had anything against Rice before this, I don't think, but that other guy that was on the Ravens, what's his name, Lewis? Now that guy was an asshole. Lewis and his buddies murdered those two guys and Lewis gets a plea bargain by ratting out his buddies. Not to mention he is an arrogant asshole. I couldn't stand Lewis, and all he got was a fine and Superbowl MVP! And he was involved in a freaking double homicide and people wanna hang Rice out to dry?

It makes no sense to me. Someone explain it to me.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:28 am

Goodell is in charge of one of the most powerful organizations in the world. There's no reason TMZ should get the elevator video first. Also, Goodell is an idiot for only giving too games and not realizing that Rice knocking her out was the only thing that could've happened in the elevator. Or he (or someone else) saw the tape and didn't bother to do anything.


He's either inept or a liar, either is a black eye for the league. I'm not saying from a moral standpoint they should fire him, I'm saying from a business perspective, it makes sense. Use him as a scapegoat and get people on your side again if you're the owners.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:54 am

The Ray Lewis example actually demonstrates the problem with the Ray Rice case: the NFL has decided to play favorites with its stars. All accounts seem to point to Rice having been honest with the commish in his interview and the NFL having that tape (or the ability to access it) at the time of judgement. Goodell gave him two games and downplayed the severity of it. Then the public sees the video and retribution is swift. They have to excommunicate him in order to save face (this, mind you, is AFTER Goodell acknowledged that he done goofed on this last month). It's not a question of how much of a piece of shit Rice is, it's about keeping that piece of shit around because he sell jerseys.

Goodell has set himself up to be a pillar of sanctity, a force of law to keep the league in check, but he's exposed himself as a charlatan who's more interested in money than justice. That's why people are calling for his job; he's not who people thought he was and they're not gonna let him off the hook.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby patches70 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:29 am

Army of GOD wrote:Goodell is in charge of one of the most powerful organizations in the world. There's no reason TMZ should get the elevator video first. Also, Goodell is an idiot for only giving too games and not realizing that Rice knocking her out was the only thing that could've happened in the elevator. Or he (or someone else) saw the tape and didn't bother to do anything.


He's either inept or a liar, either is a black eye for the league. I'm not saying from a moral standpoint they should fire him, I'm saying from a business perspective, it makes sense. Use him as a scapegoat and get people on your side again if you're the owners.


But, the owners are on the side of Goodell-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 7201,d.cGU

The owners of the NFL teams don't want him to be fired and are worried that Goodell will step down.

Now, there are people calling for Goodell to throw Adrian Peterson out of the league-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 7201,d.cGU

even though he hasn't been convicted of anything, yet. I don't know what the story is with Peterson.The Vikings can deal with Peterson just fine.


AOG wrote:Also, Goodell is an idiot for only giving too games and not realizing that Rice knocking her out was the only thing that could've happened in the elevator.


Really? It was in Vegas, right? It's not possible she was passed out drunk? Look, I don't know about when the NFL got a hold of the other tape, I don't know about their decision process.

Hell, in the case of Rice, you don't put any value on Janay Rice's side of the story? She was the victim after all-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... BNS8_0a28g

So what do you think, the person who was most affected thinks kicking Rice out of the league was too harsh.

The internet white knights come riding so they can feel morally smug in themselves to right some perceived wrong while ignoring the damage they cause. NFL players are just people like everyone else. They can make mistakes like anyone else.

I guess the NFL should ban players for life for drunk driving. Jaywalking. Drug use. Whatever gets enough people yelling "rabble rabble rabble" I suppose. And if the commissioner won't succumb to the rabble then the commissioner has to pay the price.

From the business perspective, the NFL will be just fine. Hell, from the business side the biggest threat to the individual NFL owners is the ticket prices. No one can afford to go to the games anymore! Heck, years ago I took a trip to Dallas and watched the Cowboys play the Redskins in the game where Emmitt Smith broke the all time rushing touchdown record. It was great! But hell if I'll ever pay to go to an NFL game again. It's too expensive. Frankly, I got bored with football a long time ago and I wouldn't be paying any attention to it if it weren't for fantasy football, which I enjoy. So I don't have much sympathy for Goodell or Rice or the NFL, but I don't like watching witchhunts by people who break out the torches and pitchforks just so they can tell themselves they are good people because they care.

It's all bullshit. I'd clap my hands and cheer if Goodell came out and said-"f*ck you! You don't like my decisions then go form your own football league and run it how you want!" But in today's PC world that would be a mortal sin.
People do stupid shit all the time, throwing Goodell out won't change that. But living in a world with self appointed thought police telling everyone what everyone else should do, say and think is a pretty horrible thing. IMO.

And LOL at-

AOG wrote:Goodell is in charge of one of the most powerful organizations in the world.


Yeah, ok. Yep, the NFL is right up there with NATO, the US military, Congress, The Federal Reserve, the local police force. I don't know about you but the NFL can't force me to do a damn thing, no matter what they try and say. Those others on the other hand....well, they can actually kill me, toss me in prison or bankrupt me, legally.

Haha, powerful indeed is the NFL. Rich maybe, but powerful? I don't think so.

But meh, I can't get on the bandwagon to call for the Goodell to step down. It's not my call and I, like everyone else on this site, is not qualified to make that call either. Entitled to an opinion, sure, but unless one is an NFL owner then one's opinion means exactly squat.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby patches70 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:36 am

pancakemix wrote:The Ray Lewis example actually demonstrates the problem with the Ray Rice case: the NFL has decided to play favorites with its stars. All accounts seem to point to Rice having been honest with the commish in his interview and the NFL having that tape (or the ability to access it) at the time of judgement. Goodell gave him two games and downplayed the severity of it. Then the public sees the video and retribution is swift. They have to excommunicate him in order to save face (this, mind you, is AFTER Goodell acknowledged that he done goofed on this last month). It's not a question of how much of a piece of shit Rice is, it's about keeping that piece of shit around because he sell jerseys.

Goodell has set himself up to be a pillar of sanctity, a force of law to keep the league in check, but he's exposed himself as a charlatan who's more interested in money than justice. That's why people are calling for his job; he's not who people thought he was and they're not gonna let him off the hook.


Hmm, I'm not sure there is anyone naive enough to ever have thought the NFL wasn't just about making money.


pancakemix wrote:Goodell gave him two games and downplayed the severity of it.


You say Goodell downplayed the severity of Rice's actions?
Well, what about Janay Rice? Is she downplaying Rice's actions as well? After all, she was the one who was actually, you know, directly affected by Rice's right cross. She's forgiven him and they've moved on. So Ray Rice knocks her out and now the PC crowd moves in to kick the shit out of her some more.
That's about how she feels about the whole situation. I bet she'd be just fine with Goodell's original decision. She'd be shit out of luck with Baltimore's decision, but if Rice wasn't perma banned from the NFL he might be able to salvage his image one day and work again. But because everyone so gunho about punishing Rice for the rest of his life with no chance at redemption, I have to ask, will these people be as harsh with themselves when the day comes they do something stupid?
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:37 pm

Hmm, I'm not sure there is anyone naive enough to ever have thought the NFL wasn't just about making money.


Maybe so, but Goodell presented an image of caring about the safety and behavior of the players like it was important but more than just to the brand.

As an aside, did you know the NFL is a tax-exempt nonprofit organization?

You say Goodell downplayed the severity of Rice's actions?
Well, what about Janay Rice? Is she downplaying Rice's actions as well? After all, she was the one who was actually, you know, directly affected by Rice's right cross. She's forgiven him and they've moved on. So Ray Rice knocks her out and now the PC crowd moves in to kick the shit out of her some more.
That's about how she feels about the whole situation. I bet she'd be just fine with Goodell's original decision. She'd be shit out of luck with Baltimore's decision, but if Rice wasn't perma banned from the NFL he might be able to salvage his image one day and work again. But because everyone so gunho about punishing Rice for the rest of his life with no chance at redemption, I have to ask, will these people be as harsh with themselves when the day comes they do something stupid?


You do realize that's classic battered wife behavior, right? She'll blame herself but it's more intimidation on his part than anything. It doesn't help that everyone else seems fit to blame her as well. The Ravens and Goodell continually talk about her "role" in this incident. Go back and watch the video again. He spits on her in the hallway, then again in the elevator. It's only after that that she charges him and he punches her. What's her "role" in that? That doesn't suggest a drunken brawl, it suggests a pattern of abuse. If you're going to feel sorry for her, it shouldn't be over lost income. He's already a wealthy man, they'll be fine for now and I hope for her sake she's divorced him by the time he's squandered it.

That said, I do suspect this suspension will not last. The NFLPA will challenge it and it'll get overturned because it's basically double jeopardy. He'll probably find work somewhere at a cut rate, play for another year or so and then retire. He could probably even file suit against the league if that happens over lost potential wages and get a boatload. He may be a piece of shit, but he will probably be a well-payed piece of shit at the end of all this
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby patches70 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:10 pm

pancakemix wrote:but Goodell presented an image of caring about the safety and behavior of the players like it was important but more than just to the brand.


I don't know anything about that, but can say that's a recipe for disappointment for anyone who would believe that.

pancakemix wrote:As an aside, did you know the NFL is a tax-exempt nonprofit organization?


The NFL is tax exempt, but individual teams are not. They pay taxes. The league office indeed doesn't make a profit, so they don't and shouldn't have to pay income taxes. It's not really a big deal.
Individual football teams do make a profit and they do pay income taxes. However, teams often make tax deals with local authorities, i.e. get tax breaks on the local level to move a team to <insert city>. But that's all negotiated before hand and can be taken up with the elected officials who signed off on such deals.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation on this particular subject. None at all I'd think. Perhaps you can explain why this matters in the case of Rice?


pancake wrote:You do realize that's classic battered wife behavior, right? She'll blame herself but it's more intimidation on his part than anything.



Now that certainly is possible, but guess what? I can't say that for sure, can I? Nor can you. You can suspect, but you don't know what's in her mind.
But it's a fair enough point. She can leave him or not leave him. She's responsible for her own life and one would think she should/could/would have some sort of support network in place in her life. There are certainly options for her.

pancake wrote: It doesn't help that everyone else seems fit to blame her as well.


Hmm, ok? I don't think I'm blaming her for anything, but whatever.

pancake wrote: The Ravens and Goodell continually talk about her "role" in this incident. Go back and watch the video again. He spits on her in the hallway, then again in the elevator. It's only after that that she charges him and he punches her. What's her "role" in that? That doesn't suggest a drunken brawl, it suggests a pattern of abuse. If you're going to feel sorry for her, it shouldn't be over lost income. He's already a wealthy man, they'll be fine for now and I hope for her sake she's divorced him by the time he's squandered it.


Of course she had her own role in the episode. Either one of them could have made lots of different decisions. But this is not even the issue I'm talking about.

If Ray Rice had been a doctor, would you advocate that the AMA ban him from practicing medicine for the rest of his life?
If he were a baker, would you have him banned from ever baking a cake again?
If he were a lawyer, would you have him disbarred and never allowed to practice law again?
If he were an actor would you have him never be allowed to act again?
If he were a rapper would you have him never be allowed to put on a concert or make a record again?

I mean, c'mon people, think about what you are advocating. Sure, Rice was a piece of shit for knocking her out. If I were her I'd divorce him and take half of everything, at the very least! But I'm not her. I'd want to see Rice dealt with in the courts, legally. What comes from it comes, be it probation, jail time, fines, whatever, so long as it's a trial and a fair process.
And sure, Baltimore has every right to decide who plays for their team. If they want to cut him, fine by me. If they want fine him, sure! He should face some sort of consequences. And if his image makes it so that he can't get picked up by another team, so be it! He made his bed.
But to ban him from ever participating in the field of his choice for the rest of his life?
He doesn't even get a chance to redeem himself.
He doesn't even get a chance to rehabilitate himself.

Are you all against rehabilitation? Are you all so sour that you can't believe people can change? Learn from their mistakes?

pancake wrote:He may be a piece of shit, but he will probably be a well-payed piece of shit at the end of all this


Oh, without a doubt. That's why I don't have a lot of sympathy for him, it's the implications of people's reactions to this that bothers me. Railroading people and blacklisting them so they can't make a living at their chosen field is disgusting. In Rice's case it may not be such a big deal, but there are people, regular people, who do this kind of stuff and not in a million years would you all advocate for blacklisting that person in their chosen field. They'd be just as much a piece of shit, but sheesh, let's be honest at least.

Where are all of you calling for the tarring and feathering of Chris Brown? Or other such famous people that do stupid shit? People don't bat an eye and they keep selling records or making movies or whatever and their respective industries haven't collapsed because of it.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:10 pm

I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation on this particular subject. None at all I'd think. Perhaps you can explain why this matters in the case of Rice?


It isn't, really. Hence, it was an aside. Even so, when a man gets a $44 million salary to run that type of organization, you expect him to do so equitably, not to sacrifice brand integrity for the sake of the quick buck.

Now that certainly is possible, but guess what? I can't say that for sure, can I? Nor can you. You can suspect, but you don't know what's in her mind.


All I can say for sure about their relationship is based on the video from that elevator. And whether that's the norm or the first time that ever happened, it's not healthy.

Hmm, ok? I don't think I'm blaming her for anything, but whatever.


I didn't intend that to mean you. Sorry if it read that way. I meant the Ravens and Goodell, specifically.

Of course she had her own role in the episode. Either one of them could have made lots of different decisions. But this is not even the issue I'm talking about.

If Ray Rice had been a doctor, would you advocate that the AMA ban him from practicing medicine for the rest of his life?
If he were a baker, would you have him banned from ever baking a cake again?
If he were a lawyer, would you have him disbarred and never allowed to practice law again?
If he were an actor would you have him never be allowed to act again?
If he were a rapper would you have him never be allowed to put on a concert or make a record again?


See, the thing is that the NFL is a very different industry from those, one where suspension for criminal or amoral acts is common course. If Rice gets suspended for eight games, I doubt we have this discussion because most people would think it was fair to suspend the guy for half the season. That's how the NFL works. Other industries aren't beholden to that type of standard (Of note, disbarment can occur in some places if someone violates the "ethics of the profession", so some other industries ARE beholden to that type of standard it would seem). Now, if I knew my doctor or baker had done something like that, I may choose to go to a different doctor or baker, but there's no "Commissioner of Bakeries", is there?

At any rate, "indefinite suspension" probably doesn't mean "lifetime ban". It probably means a year/serving a sentence, or in this case completing a court intervention program. Michael Vick is back in the league even though he ran a dog-fighting ring, and he was even a starter post-scandal. And as I said before, it'll probably get overturned anyway. So of course people will want to burn him at the stake now, like people wanted to with Vick and Chris Brown, for instance, but the majority of people will stop caring after awhile.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby patches70 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:38 pm

pancakemix wrote:, when a man gets a $44 million salary to run that type of organization, you expect him to do so equitably, not to sacrifice brand integrity for the sake of the quick buck.


Expectations are just planned disappointments.

I don't know what it is to be the commissioner of the NFL. But I can imagine that there are a lot of competing and conflicting interests he has to deal with. Maintaining image while also maintaining profitability for one. I don't think anyone could say it was easy, and the Rice situation something has to give.
As you said, Rice sells a lot of t-shirts. Then contrast that with image, one can start seeing how it's not an easy thing. Something is going to take a hit, something is going to be sacrificed.

It seems to me that those giving Goodell and the NFL the most grief are doing so based on emotion mainly and not really thinking about what they are really saying. Hey, you may be right, maybe Rice's suspension will end one day. One game, two games, eight games, but no matter what some people won't be satisfied unless Rice gets the Pete Rose treatment and to me it's a horribly short sighted view. A view of which Goodell has the unpleasant task of having to deal with.



pancake wrote:All I can say for sure about their relationship is based on the video from that elevator.


Which it's safe to say then that you don't really know anything at all about their relationship. I don't know anything about their relationship either, but I bet you Goodell has a better handle on their relationship than we do! Which might not be saying much, but it's probably a tad more insightful than ours as I've never spoken or met the Rices.

pancake wrote: And whether that's the norm or the first time that ever happened, it's not healthy.


Oh, without a doubt. No argument from me on this.


pancakemix wrote: but the majority of people will stop caring after awhile.


And hence the reason why Goodell doesn't have to bow to the pressure. Because it's just football, a child's game played by grown men who get paid millions of dollars. And this situation isn't going to hurt the NFL at all because in a short while everyone will forget all about it.

And also another example of why no one should feel "betrayed" that Goodell didn't change the league or whatever. Because ultimately people just want to be entertained, except for those who have a boner about bashing the NFL every chance they get.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:33 pm

Hester belongs in the HoF
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby patches70 on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:21 pm

Army of GOD wrote:Hester belongs in the HoF


Haha, he got a penalty for the little Dion tribute he did on his way crossing the goal line. Ridiculous!
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby strike wolf on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:24 pm

When a player is about to break a record like that. Let em celebrate. That said, to call this game a blow out doesn't really cover it. This was a straight up beat down which was a lot worse than the final score makes it seem.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby muy_thaiguy on Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:36 pm

So Strike, you feel pretty good about your Falcons?

Just a heads up, Tampa's offense was run by Wyoming's ex-OC last night. And even at the college level he was pretty bad.

Still can't believe that they cut Brett Smith for THAT kind of performance. I call BS on that.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby tzor on Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:33 pm

nietzsche wrote:but why is the NFL full of delinquents?

honest question, i don't know much about NFL but they have like 3 years with these problems don't they? and why doesn't the whitehouse intervene like they did in MLB (given that it's almost obvious that the steroids are acting on the mood of the players)


nietzsche wrote:Same shit.

Government getting its nose in a private business.


I should point out, that in the case of MLB, the notion of "private business" is kind of hypocritical. You see, they are a monopoly of sorts, in fact it's called a "legal monopoly" not in the sense that they can't have competition but in the sense of being above antitrust laws.
Professional sports organizations such as Major League Baseball are not legally protected from independent league baseball, but nonetheless are sometimes called legal monopolies on grounds that they are exempted from US antitrust law.


Likewise, the NFL is a legal monopoly, even more so since there are no real independent football leagues in the Untied States. (And I seriously doubt the CFL up north is even known by most fans of football in the US, so the Canadian exception is not really important.) The NFL Is The Purest Monopoly In The World.

Here’s how amazing the NFL is. They’re organized as a 501c nonprofit. Its specific line in the tax code was developed just for the league thanks to some genius lobbying. It’s right in the tax code:
(6) Business leagues, chambers of commerce, real-estate boards, boards of trade, or professional football leagues (whether or not administering a pension fund for football players), not organized for profit and no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.


Yes, as free market as I am, this reeks of government crony capitalism and what the government giveth, the government may takest away.

All the major sports leagues in the US enjoy some of the same benefits as the NFL. But the NFL enjoys the most, and uses their power to reap the best rewards for the team owners. The economics enthusiast in me is torn. One is side somewhat proud of what they’ve been able to do in an open market for sports. But the other is disgusted at their gross abuse of power in the marketplace. Then there’s the sports fan in me that just loves football.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:07 pm

Oh, Arena football and Lingerie football don't exist anymore. When did that happen?
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:27 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Oh, Arena football and Lingerie football don't exist anymore. When did that happen?


They're both still around. The AFL hit the reset button a few years ago, but they're operational. Lingerie football rebranded itself as the Legends Football League because somehow it's less offensive if you obfuscate what you're advertising, I guess.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:33 pm

tzor wrote:Likewise, the NFL is a legal monopoly, even more so since there are no real independent football leagues in the Untied States.


Are you calling tzor a liar pcm?
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby Serbia on Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:02 pm

It sucks that in our NFL thread we've discussed legal issues more than the actual game.

Bollocks.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:07 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
tzor wrote:Likewise, the NFL is a legal monopoly, even more so since there are no real independent football leagues in the Untied States.


Are you calling tzor a liar pcm?


No, because the AFL is a spring league and somewhat of a different sport, so it's not in direct competition with the NFL. Likewise the LFL isn't competing with the NFL in the same way a league like the AFL might for personnel or target audience (well, maybe it's the same, but not for the same reasons). It's also a spring league.

Anywho, that wasn't the point. You asked what happened to those leagues. I answered your question. I suppose it depends on your question of what a "real independent football league" is. The CFL is probably the closest thing to that, even though that's a different game as well. There was the UFL a few years ago, but that collapsed. I'm not debating that the NFL is a monopoly, though, in that case.
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Re: NFL season 14-15

Postby pancakemix on Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:16 pm

Serbia wrote:It sucks that in our NFL thread we've discussed legal issues more than the actual game.

Bollocks.


Very true. I actually have reason to be hopeful for this season again after Sunday night's game.
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