Conquer Club

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:44 pm**

I have been rather inactive for the last couple of months. Now I am back and allot has changed around here; new layout, new staff and a whole lot of new usernames I haven't seen before. So what I want to know now is what people think of the foundry?

-The people?
-The staff?
-The maps?
-The process?

What do you like and what don't you like?

Cheers,
gimil

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:56 pm**

gimil wrote:-The people?

Most people are nice. Lots of good suggestions from people who post on map threads, and most mapmakers respond nicely to people leaving feedback. Granted, there are a few hotheads, but they're a minority...

-The staff?

Staff do their job as well as they can. They seem to be a little undermanned, I hope they get reinforcements soon.

-The maps?

Most maps seem very interesting, some I can't wait to get into beta testing.

-The process?

A bit slow, but then again, that just ensures our maps will be top quality!
Some maps in the draft room should get a draft stamp right now IMO.

What do you like and what don't you like?

I like the people who get along nicely. I don't like when map threads degenerate into flame wars...

Cheers,
gimil

cheers

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:05 pm**

The usual concerns, the usual opinions, but trucking along.

--Andy

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:31 pm**

The usual concerns, the usual opinions, but trucking along.

Wow, that was bland...

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:25 pm**

-The people? Generally pleasant so far. I have seen a few map makers get frustrated by the process. A number that want to quench maps at only 75% completion.
-The staff? I wish they were around more. I've had a few regulars comment on my map, and all good suggestions. I find that most are in the main foundry and the draft room is very quiet.
-The maps? Some really complex ones that will never see the light of day. The odd really bad idea.
-The process? Not sure, working my way through it the first time.

What do you like and what don't you like? More tools, I wish people would collaborate, eg. sharing brushes for GIMP etc. a place for resources.

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:35 pm**

I wish more people would use paint.net. So far I seem to be the only one currently. Granted it's a very basic software initially, but you can get lots of great plugins in it so if you take the time to find all the good plugins it can be almost up to par with gimp.

Plus, it's a lot faster than gimp, at least on my computer.

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:37 pm**

What do you like and what don't you like?

Too many people are involved in the process and too much is left to public opinion. A lot of maps come in trying to be a horse but after all the hoops that the map makers are forced to jump through we end up with camels. The process pendulum has swung to the other side where people's ideas get crushed or manipulated too much by public opinion. I would rather see great maps come out from a committee of a select few rather than the general public weighing in on the manner. Mapmakers too often try to please everybody and end up just pissing everyone off.

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:45 pm**

natty_dread wrote:I wish more people would use paint.net. So far I seem to be the only one currently. Granted it's a very basic software initially, but you can get lots of great plugins in it so if you take the time to find all the good plugins it can be almost up to par with gimp.

Plus, it's a lot faster than gimp, at least on my computer.

I guess I make two, then.

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:45 pm**

I disagree, the public opinion should be heard. After all, it is the public that is going to play these maps. It's up to the mapmaker then to decide which suggestions he should use and which discard.

After all, no one is forcing the mapmakers to follow every suggestion.

Evil DIMwit wrote:I guess I make two, then.

yay!

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:56 pm**

gimil wrote:I have been rather inactive for the last couple of months. Now I am back and allot has changed around here; new layout, new staff and a whole lot of new usernames I haven't seen before. So what I want to know now is what people think of the foundry?

-The people?
Pretty good, but lacking we lack the oldschool people what used to be here, a lot of them left, leaving a lot of newer players to fill in their place, which is good for somethings, since for a while there was a problem of no new faces in the foundry but I think that the lack of experience does hurt some maps.
-The staff?
They are great, but they need more people. They replaced 3 people who left with 2 new people, stretching the staff thin.
-The maps?
There are a lot of great maps, but that is no different from when you left.
-The process?
Well, we have no bad maps getting quenched, which is probably worth the one or two good maps that get abandoned because the maker is to frustrated to keep going.
What do you like and what don't you like?
I don't like the outdated size restrictions. They don't need to be so small anymore!

Cheers,
gimil

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:29 pm**

Evil DIMwit wrote:I guess I make two, then.

Hey, would you maybe like to exchange some tips and tricks, maybe share some of your favorite plugins? We could post them here or on a separate thread, as a reference to any future paint.net users...

I mean, there are tons of threads on the usage of GIMP and PS but I haven't seen a single thread about paint.net.

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:18 am**

i haven't partaken in the foundry in a long time as well... i think it just got too tiring to follow every map all the time... i still enjoy stopping by every once in a while, but it just doesn't have the same allure

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:14 am**

-The people?

Mostly good. I've had a lot of support from foundry regulars and its helped out quite a bit. I'm definitely grateful for the support I get for my maps and quite often for the solutions to problems I couldn't quite figure out myself. However, I think people over-analyze maps way too much in their effort to be helpful, I understand how it happens and I do it as well, but it definitely is a downside to the open forum.

-The staff?

Awesome. I wish there was more of them. They've definitely been patient with me and my questions and certainly helped me out a ton with information and suggestions.

-The maps?

Mostly good. There's certain maps that have no appeal to me what so ever and I'll probably never play them. But maps aren't designed to please everyone, right? I mainly just avoid giving any feedback on them. Other maps I'm getting excited to play and try to keep up with them. But maps kind of hit this point where they're just idling and only the slightest changes are being made. At that point I've lost interest and will return when it comes to Beta time.

-The process?

Way too long. Not to complain anymore about my 13 Colonies map... but seriously. February. There's maps that are perfectly ready for stamping that have been waiting there longer like 1st Crusade, Monsters and Portland. Too much of it is dependent on willing foundry support. I mean, I only post on maps that get me excited to play them initially... but there's perfectly good maps in the works that deserve to go on and get quenched. Cricket for example... I'm never going to play that map if I can help it. But the gameplay seems right, the graphics are solid and it ought to be quenched. There needs to be some remedy in the system. Look at how much feedback is given and progress achieved when the foundry is called in for a preliminary review of a map. Even if its a map I don't particularly care for, I'll give it a look over and offer my criticisms. I think the process needs to be applied to the graphics and gameplay stamps as well; people are more likely to comment and support the map when they're directly asked.

What do you like and what don't you like?

I like the fact that anyone can make a map. It keeps the ideas coming and moving. I dislike that so many cool maps fail, but I guess that's part of the process. There is a benefit to other mapmakers picking up old maps as well. I dislike the lack of contests though. Speaking of failed maps, there ought to be a contest to see who can salvage an old map.

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:31 pm**

natty_dread wrote:I disagree, the public opinion should be heard. After all, it is the public that is going to play these maps. It's up to the mapmaker then to decide which suggestions he should use and which discard.

After all, no one is forcing the mapmakers to follow every suggestion.

Evil DIMwit wrote:I guess I make two, then.

yay!

Yes it is a very good idea in principle. But in practice, it has NOT garnered the attention of the "public" as a whole. Only a handful of regular foundry enthusiasts. And, some of them, er, MOST of them are map makers themselves. This should, and would not be a problem, if it were not for the fact, that some of them seem to have a
God complex thing going on. They act as though map making is some sort of competition itself, and only root for each others projects. While actively trying to hinder the progress of any outsiders. They let people like mibi run free, and do his hatchet job, free rained.
I think that maybe the Foundry staff is undermanned, and just too much responsibility has been put upon them. I read in a previous post that something was in the works to remedy this situation. It can NOT come soon enough, ...if you ask me. 8-)

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:45 pm**

porkenbeans wrote:
natty_dread wrote:I disagree, the public opinion should be heard. After all, it is the public that is going to play these maps. It's up to the mapmaker then to decide which suggestions he should use and which discard.

After all, no one is forcing the mapmakers to follow every suggestion.

Evil DIMwit wrote:I guess I make two, then.

yay!
Yes it is a very good idea in principle. But in practice, it has NOT garnered the attention of the "public" as a whole. Only a handful of regular foundry enthusiasts. And, some of them, er, MOST of them are map makers themselves. This should, and would not be a problem, if it were not for the fact, that some of them seem to have a
God complex thing going on. They act as though map making is some sort of competition itself, and only root for each others projects. While actively trying to hinder the progress of any outsiders. They let people like mibi run free, and do his hatchet job, free rained.
I think that maybe the Foundry staff is undermanned, and just too much responsibility has been put upon them. I read in a previous post that something was in the works to remedy this situation. It can NOT come soon enough, ...if you ask me.

Can I help it if God speaks through my hatchet?

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:46 pm**

porkenbeans wrote:....And, some of them, er, MOST of them are map makers themselves. This should, and would not be a problem, if it were not for the fact, that some of them seem to have a
God complex thing going on. They act as though map making is some sort of competition itself, and only root for each others projects. While actively trying to hinder the progress of any outsiders. They let people like mibi run free, and do his hatchet job, free rained.

Speaking purely as a regular Foundry user, and stepping out of my Chief Moderator boots, I'd say this is pretty inaccurate. In fact, I'd say it's extremely inaccurate. In fact, I'd say it's an affront to the whole Map Foundry Community to even think that people are "actively trying to hinder" the progress. What you are suggesting seems to be conspiracy like---of which I think have no real place in the Foundry. Deep down inside, one probably knows that people aren't "actively" trying to root others out of the Foundry. And to suggest such a thing seems to show a lack of respect for the Map Foundry Community as a whole.

I think that maybe the Foundry staff is undermanned, and just too much responsibility has been put upon them. I read in a previous post that something was in the works to remedy this situation. It can NOT come soon enough, ...if you ask me.

Indeed, some things can surely help. But keep this in mind, especially for all those who complain about the Foundry being undermanned---they are volunteers. If you don't want to volunteer and step up and help out, complaining just makes the situation worse and run in circles.

Bananas.

--Andy

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:54 pm**

the thing about mibi though is, he does have a great visual eye, and a lot of the feedback he leaves is dead on. Sometimes his comparisons are bit on the edge, but his points are valid. And he's made some of the best maps on the site.

But.. I'm not that impressed with most of the maps in production right now. As mibi said in a different thread, this site is already saturated with the standard gameplay / geographic style map - it's just rehashing the same thing over and over. WM has something unique going on. Goblin Tribes has some unique graphics. I like the Third Crusade and Poland. But most.. eh.. even that Flanders map has nice vector graphics, but it's nothing special.

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:40 pm**

To be honest, I like the standard conquer all gameplay. Each one has a relatively unique set up with unique strategies to go by. While the general concept is the same, the actual gameplay is not.

On a side note... I wonder if all the maps were broken down into something like classic shapes, how many really would be different from other and how many would be similar.

As for the voluteering for the map foundry... I thought one had to be asked rather than raising a hand and saying I can help out.

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:34 pm**

Industrial Helix wrote:As for the voluteering for the map foundry... I thought one had to be asked rather than raising a hand and saying I can help out.

Team CC is still accepting Open Applications. We may not "Return your call" right away---and may keep you on file, and contact you later should the need arise, to see if you are still interested.

MrBenn can further speak more about this, and the specifics of the Foundry should he wish to do so.

--Andy

Posted: **Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:52 pm**

My opinion is that Gimil can't spell.

C.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:45 pm**

yeti_c wrote:My opinion is that Gimil can't spell.

C.

You found him out yetty...

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:55 pm**

-The people? For the map I've been working on, feedback seems to be very slow. (Of course the damn things been in the foundry so long, I can sort of see why)

-The staff? Definitely need more staff members. I understand that they are volunteers, but things have been going so slow in the foundry lately.

-The maps? IMO most of the maps I've taken the time to look at seem too complicated. None the less, some great maps are slowly making their way through the foundry.

-The process? Again slow, but probably necessary.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:34 pm**

Re: What is your opinion on the foundy?

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:46 am

porkenbeans wrote:....And, some of them, er, MOST of them are map makers themselves. This should, and would not be a problem, if it were not for the fact, that some of them seem to have a
God complex thing going on. They act as though map making is some sort of competition itself, and only root for each others projects. While actively trying to hinder the progress of any outsiders. They let people like mibi run free, and do his hatchet job, free rained.

Speaking purely as a regular Foundry user, and stepping out of my Chief Moderator boots, I'd say this is pretty inaccurate. In fact, I'd say it's extremely inaccurate. In fact, I'd say it's an affront to the whole Map Foundry Community to even think that people are "actively trying to hinder" the progress. What you are suggesting seems to be conspiracy like---of which I think have no real place in the Foundry. Deep down inside, one probably knows that people aren't "actively" trying to root others out of the Foundry. And to suggest such a thing seems to show a lack of respect for the Map Foundry Community as a whole.

I think that maybe the Foundry staff is undermanned, and just too much responsibility has been put upon them. I read in a previous post that something was in the works to remedy this situation. It can NOT come soon enough, ...if you ask me.

Indeed, some things can surely help. But keep this in mind, especially for all those who complain about the Foundry being undermanned---they are volunteers. If you don't want to volunteer and step up and help out, complaining just makes the situation worse and run in circles.

So, when someone asks what we all think about the Foundry, we can say whatever we think.. as long as we broadly agree it's a very helpful place where everyone really tries to help everyone else and as long as we don't complain about pretty much anything at all because everyone in the Foundry is a volunteer and "complaining just makes the situation worse"?

Beyond the obvious free speech and related self-censorship implications, why even bother engaging in such a discussion if there already is ONE correct answer no one should challege lest one be accused of "counterproductive complaining" or of showing "a lack of respect for the Map Foundry Community as a whole" by no less than the "Chief Moderator" Himself - even out of his "Chief Moderator boots"?

As a long-term CC member said on another thread asking a similar question about the site as a whole:

Re: It's a beautiful site but....

Postby Timminz on Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:44 pm

jiminski wrote:I am sad that i do not come to these forums to be challenged by deviant genius's who can be bothered to create challenge.

Me too. You (and many others) are missed. There are still a few left, but they are becoming fewer in number, and those who remain are posting with with less frequency. It's almost as though those who haven't been forcibly removed, simply cannot be bothered anymore.

Of course, we now know that Timminz and jiminski and others who share their opinion engage in counterproductive complaining and show a total lack of respect for all those wholunteers who work really hard to make this place a fun place to be. Ah, but just reporting on this (whether or not I agree with the substantive content of these comments) is in itself a form of complaining and of showing a total lack of repect for.... Shrugs. As I said above: why bother asking or engaging with such a question in the first place. I for one have better things to do with my time. Y'all good ol' boys' have fun in ruling your virtual empire made up of multicolored pixels any way you want. Just stop pretending it's an "open community" "respectful of all its members" and receptive to "creative input" and "constructive criticism".

Vive la Pensee Unique!

Wonders whether Andy still remembers why he "excused" himself from the Shawshank "Community" in the first place and went to Zihuatenejo.... compulsive craving for bananas aside... and if he knows by what strange twist of fate he got back in again and ended up in Warden Norton's Chair.. and Boots, for that matter...

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:50 pm**

Raskholnikov wrote:So, when someone asks what we all think about the Foundry, we can say whatever we think.. as long as we broadly agree it's a very helpful place where everyone really tries to help everyone else and as long as we don't complain about pretty much anything at all because everyone in the Foundry is a volunteer and "complaining just makes the situation worse"?

First, Andy does not speak for all of us. He did not ask teh question. He was stating his opinion about the question. I tend to agree with him.

Second, I would like you to find me a map, where a new map maker started out and was abused and ridiculed because of WHO they were. I don't think you will find one.
Every time a map has been said to be bad, or ugly or not right, it has not been because people dislike the map maker, it is because the map is bad.

Think about the American Idol analogy.
How many people get onto American Idol and think they are GREAT STUFF? Way too many.
Why do these people think they are so good at singing?

Whatever the reason is, there are TONS of people on American Idol that sing bad and refuse to accept it.

Now look at the foundry.
Why do you think ANYONE can come in and start 1 map, with no experience and assume they know best? They can't. Until they prove they are good, why should everyoen praise their work? When a first map maker comes in and accepts help and criticism, they learn and grow in both negotiating, communicating and drawing at the same time.

Everyone was a new map maker once. Some just choose to listen and accept help from people who came before. Those people get better, learn how to properly communicate and make a map.
Others don't. And those people are the largest percentage of people complaining that the foundry is an "elitist group of people, bent on destroying the wishes and hope of the new artists".

There have been many issues over my time here where I have not wanted to change a map for my own reason. Many times I have got to keep my original design. Other I have not. I can disagree with people but that does not mean they are not correct. Plus, how many of your so called foundry elite, have had every map they have ever designed built. ZERO. It would seem to me that if a small percentage of people ran the foundry that all the maps they designed would be created. I have many ideas that have not made it. Mainly due to lack of support because they were bad ideas. I had a DNA map a long time ago that got crushed. It was a BAD MAP IDEA!. I had a Rubix cube map idea. It was a bad idea.

Just take a look at all of the first carto maps in the foundry. How many of them think the foundry is a place that is full of elite map makers bend on the destruction of others. Sure they have received advice that they did not like. They have been told their maps have attributes that are not good (GP, visual,etc). Did they complain and cry elitism? From what I have seen, they kept moving forward and their map have gotten better. Plus they might have learned some stuff from others along the way.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:14 pm**

Raskholnikov wrote: ....

As a long-term CC member said on another thread asking a similar question about the site as a whole:

Re: It's a beautiful site but....

Postby Timminz on Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:44 pm

jiminski wrote:I am sad that i do not come to these forums to be challenged by deviant genius's who can be bothered to create challenge.

Me too. You (and many others) are missed. There are still a few left, but they are becoming fewer in number, and those who remain are posting with with less frequency. It's almost as though those who haven't been forcibly removed, simply cannot be bothered anymore.

Of course, we now know that Timminz and jiminski and others who share their opinion engage in counterproductive complaining and show a total lack of respect for all those wholunteers who work really hard to make this place a fun place to be. ...

..

heh i think you must only have ever read one of my posts, but do carry on.