Conquer Club

Unofficial Revamp Discussion

Still in it's initial planning stages, there is much room for discussion and development of the revamping process, thus the unofficial nature of this thread. For the time being however, please follow the guidelines set out below when attempting a revamp of an existing map.

Each revamp will take place on a map by map basis, with the original cartographer having the right to set any restrictions or guidelines as they see fit. It is important that we respect the original cartographers vision and intention for their original pieces of work.

Step 1) Permission from the original cartographer needs to be obtained before a revamp can begin. Contact KEYOGI via PM with details of the map(s) to be revamped so the original cartographer can be contacted.

Step 2) Once permission has been granted, provide the initial draft to KEYOGI via PM so an official revamp thread can be created. Any other threads made in regards to revamps will be labelled unofficial.

Step 3) When an offical thread has been made for a revamp, the map will follow the same procedure as any other normal map in development, this includes Final Forge and Quenching.

Now, lets start cranking out those revamps!

Revamp Developmental Atlas


Approved

• Brazil
  Revamp Cartographer: The Fuzzy Pengui
  
• Canada
  Revamp Cartographers: Open Competition
  
• Indochina
  Revamp Cartographer: WidowMakers

Proposed

Rejected

• Ancient Greece

Completed

• Circus Maximus
  Revamp Cartographer: WidowMakers
  
• Middle East
  Revamp Cartographer: KEYOGI
  
• Montreal
  Revamp Cartographer: WidowMakers

Indochina definitely needs to get revamped.

Well since I can reply apparently.

My priority list for revamps (what I think needs to revamped and in what order):
1) Canada
2) Indochina
3) Brazil
4) Montreal

What's wrong with Montreal?

Gilligan wrote:What's wrong with Montreal?

It's a bit uggo, more so then any other map that isn't listed above it and isn't in the revamp process already, imo.

I think Montreal has one of the best gameplay. The only thing that would be needed would be graphics, as that is the only thing you can revamp.

gilligan I dont think you quite understand what a revamp is...

The only thing that would be needed would be graphics

thats what a revamp is. fixing the graphics. we're not talking gameplay.

keyogi can you add Siege! and 8 Thoughts to the list of maps that need a graphics update?

ok but in all seriousness....

1) montreal
2) ancient greece
3) brazil
4) british isles

-circus maximus needs it too. but ill never play the map again (after once) so i dont care if it gets redone.

johloh wrote:keyogi can you add Siege! and 8 Thoughts to the list of maps that need a graphics update?

Serious? 8 Thoughts has great graphics!

Although Siege could use some.

i won't post the maps i want revamped since theyare the ones posted above by others.

what i want to know is this:

1. can we have border modifications? some older maps have 4 way borders that need fixing. this is not just about moving a border a pixel or two it's about making new connections between the countries that could affect gameplay. some 4 way borders could be dealt by adding a lake or a mountain in those places but not in all cases. so i want to know if this will be allowed.

2. teritory names. some maps contain errors in names. can they be changed?

3. bonuses. maybe some bonus tweaking could be done, especially if borders are modified.

4. gameplay extras. can we add some extra spice to the maps? like harbors or teleportations?

5. some map makers are no longer around here. if we can't contact them can the revamp be done?

6. can more people try a revamp at once? as i told keyogi a few weeks ago i wanted to revamp montreal. but i see johloh wants to do it. i guess there's no problem with a little competition.

I think these need a revamp.... Sorry if they have been listed already

Brazil...British Isles...Circus Maximus...Montreal...North America

Some others Could use it but don't need it (or I don't care... Crossword) so I won't post them....and I wouldn't mind doing the art for any of them (if that is ok with the creators or whomever of course)

as for Circus Maximus ... I definitely want to revamp that one.

Ireland, and all the others mentioned here.

pancakemix wrote:Ireland, and all the others mentioned here.

I think Ireland Looks Great... It could Be Bigger Maybe But It reminds me of a Real Map..... Graphically.. As for the game play its fine....

Keredrex wrote:as for Circus Maximus ... I definitely want to revamp that one.

So do I!

Keredrex wrote:

pancakemix wrote:Ireland, and all the others mentioned here.

I think Ireland Looks Great... It could Be Bigger Maybe But It reminds me of a Real Map..... Graphically.. As for the game play its fine....

It's kind of hard to see the bonuses. Game play is fine, I love the Ireland map, but graphically it could be better.

pancakemix wrote:

Keredrex wrote:

pancakemix wrote:Ireland, and all the others mentioned here.

I think Ireland Looks Great... It could Be Bigger Maybe But It reminds me of a Real Map..... Graphically.. As for the game play its fine....

It's kind of hard to see the bonuses. Game play is fine, I love the Ireland map, but graphically it could be better.

Thats true... But i think if it were just a bit bigger that might solve that problem


And Widow Maybe we could collaborate... Circus Maximus

WidowMakers wrote:

Keredrex wrote:as for Circus Maximus ... I definitely want to revamp that one.

So do I!

I want you to revamp canada though, I think you could make it look really great.

Excellent, the system is working. Keep the feedback and suggestions coming guys. Perhaps it would be best to post why you think a map needs a revamp. I have started a small list and I'm not sure all maps need complete visual overhauls. Some might just need new army shadows or such. That's what we're hear to discuss anyway.

DiM wrote:1. can we have border modifications? some older maps have 4 way borders that need fixing. this is not just about moving a border a pixel or two it's about making new connections between the countries that could affect gameplay. some 4 way borders could be dealt by adding a lake or a mountain in those places but not in all cases. so i want to know if this will be allowed.

4-way borders are something that need to be looked into, but I think it'll be on a map-by-map basis to determine the best way to solve each problem.

DiM wrote:2. teritory names. some maps contain errors in names. can they be changed?

For the most part, I would like names to remain unchanged. Apart from prettying things up, I'd like the dynamics of maps to stay the same. Obviously there will be situations where names should be changed, but the final decision will rest with the original cartographer.

DiM wrote:3. bonuses. maybe some bonus tweaking could be done, especially if borders are modified.

If gameplay could be improved from a bonus adjustment then I think it's ok, but I don't think that scenario will come up often with borders remaining untouched for the most part.

DiM wrote:4. gameplay extras. can we add some extra spice to the maps? like harbors or teleportations?

No, I don't like this idea. I really want to maintain the original maps gameplay and dynamics. If there's an existing map that you feel could benefit from such a system, you could always make your own version.

DiM wrote:5. some map makers are no longer around here. if we can't contact them can the revamp be done?

I'll have access to each cartographers email address, and Andy and Lack have yet to discuss the situation of what happens when a cartographer can't be reached.

DiM wrote:6. can more people try a revamp at once? as i told keyogi a few weeks ago i wanted to revamp montreal. but i see johloh wants to do it. i guess there's no problem with a little competition.

I think some competition is going to happen no matter how we try and do these revamps. My thoughts on this are that each cartographer can only do one revamp, so that means I'm out since I've arleady done the Middle East. Perhaps we can limit it to three individuals per revamp and these three cartographers can have a week or two to put their submission forward and then the foundry can have a week to vote on which persons version they think is best. If a person is knocked out of this competition they are eligible to volunteer for another revamp.

Also, I think it would be best to limit the number of revamps being done at a time. Say three again, as I don't think it would be ideal for the foundry to be flooded with revamps. Now, what would be the best way to prioritise revamps? Do people want to rate how urgent a revamp is or should we just work through them in alphabetical order?

KEYOGI wrote:My thoughts on this are that each cartographer can only do one revamp, so that means I'm out since I've arleady done the Middle East. Perhaps we can limit it to three individuals per revamp and these three cartographers can have a week or two to put their submission forward and then the foundry can have a week to vote on which persons version they think is best. If a person is knocked out of this competition they are eligible to volunteer for another revamp.

Also, I think it would be best to limit the number of revamps being done at a time. Say three again, as I don't think it would be ideal for the foundry to be flooded with revamps. Now, what would be the best way to prioritise revamps? Do people want to rate how urgent a revamp is or should we just work through them in alphabetical order?

I think that before we decide how many maps a person can or cannot revamp, we need to have a poll and determine the top maps that people think need reworked graphics. After that we can then start the competition.

Since I believe there are really only 5-6 maps that REALLY need a revamp, I feel we should let anyone try. Then after 1 week the top 3 or 4 are voted on. Then another week the top 2. And then the final week the winner. 6 maps at 3 weeks per map is 18 weeks or 4 1/4 months. That will keep a steady stream of revamps and the competition going longer. It might allow new players to jump in down the road. If we did 3 maps at a time we could be done by July.

Since the only thing being judged is the look of the map, the development will go much faster. I really would like to try and compete for several of the maps. That is why I would like to remove the limit of maps a person can do. However, I might be the only one who thinks this. If that is the case, I will have to be very picky about the map i try to revamp.

KEYOGI wrote:

DiM wrote:1. can we have border modifications? some older maps have 4 way borders that need fixing. this is not just about moving a border a pixel or two it's about making new connections between the countries that could affect gameplay. some 4 way borders could be dealt by adding a lake or a mountain in those places but not in all cases. so i want to know if this will be allowed.

4-way borders are something that need to be looked into, but I think it'll be on a map-by-map basis to determine the best way to solve each problem.

of course it will depend on each map but i want to know if we can alter them by adding connections.
for example in your middle east revamp you added a lake and this way solved the 4 way border and did not have to add extra connections but in some cases this won't be possible. so xml modifications will be a must.

KEYOGI wrote:

DiM wrote:2. teritory names. some maps contain errors in names. can they be changed?

For the most part, I would like names to remain unchanged. Apart from prettying things up, I'd like the dynamics of maps to stay the same. Obviously there will be situations where names should be changed, but the final decision will rest with the original cartographer.

what if the original cartographer is unreachable? i think correcting the names should be obvious.

KEYOGI wrote:

DiM wrote:3. bonuses. maybe some bonus tweaking could be done, especially if borders are modified.

If gameplay could be improved from a bonus adjustment then I think it's ok, but I don't think that scenario will come up often with borders remaining untouched for the most part.

i was thinking especially about the 4 way borders. they might add some new connections that will alter gameplay.

KEYOGI wrote:

DiM wrote:4. gameplay extras. can we add some extra spice to the maps? like harbors or teleportations?

No, I don't like this idea. I really want to maintain the original maps gameplay and dynamics. If there's an existing map that you feel could benefit from such a system, you could always make your own version.

really? so let's say i want to do a brazil map with aliens in it. is it ok and can it be a separate map from a normal revamp? of course i'm joking about the brazil aliens. i want to put mutant coffee beans

KEYOGI wrote:

DiM wrote:5. some map makers are no longer around here. if we can't contact them can the revamp be done?

I'll have access to each cartographers email address, and Andy and Lack have yet to discuss the situation of what happens when a cartographer can't be reached.

this is really important and i think that cartographers should be contacted as soon as a list of revamps will be made. what if a cartographer does not want his map to be revamped? can we do a new version that will be quenched along with the old map?

KEYOGI wrote:

DiM wrote:6. can more people try a revamp at once? as i told keyogi a few weeks ago i wanted to revamp montreal. but i see johloh wants to do it. i guess there's no problem with a little competition.

I think some competition is going to happen no matter how we try and do these revamps. My thoughts on this are that each cartographer can only do one revamp, so that means I'm out since I've arleady done the Middle East. Perhaps we can limit it to three individuals per revamp and these three cartographers can have a week or two to put their submission forward and then the foundry can have a week to vote on which persons version they think is best. If a person is knocked out of this competition they are eligible to volunteer for another revamp.

Also, I think it would be best to limit the number of revamps being done at a time. Say three again, as I don't think it would be ideal for the foundry to be flooded with revamps. Now, what would be the best way to prioritise revamps? Do people want to rate how urgent a revamp is or should we just work through them in alphabetical order?

while i agree with the competition i don't think limiting the number of active revamps or the number of revamps / cartographer is such a good idea. why shouldn't you be allowed to do another revamp?

or let's say X, Y, Z start a revamp of montreal and all of them suck at graphics. does this mean cartographer A that has great skills can't come in and do the same revamp because there are already 3 guys doing it?

the only part i agree is with the submiting period. i think that 2-3 weeks are more than enough to prduce a draft and make several updates so that people know what to expect and form an opinion. and after the best map is chosen the other 2 will give up. it's no use having 2-3 maps nearly completed and chose just one. that would mean the other 2 just wasted their time.

So perhaps we can have as many people participate as they want, but I would really like to put a cap on it. Maybe three is too few? The idea of limiting people to the number of revamps they can do is to give everyone a fair go. Chances are if WidowMakers want's to revamp 12 maps, he will be choosen over others to do all of them. Again, maybe one revamp per person was too few, maybe it could be three.

Anyway, continue discussion and we'll get the details sorted before any revamping is actually done.

KEYOGI wrote: Chances are if WidowMakers want's to revamp 12 maps, he will be choosen over others to do all of them. Again, maybe one revamp per person was too few, maybe it could be three.

I agree Widowmakers Has has Top notch Maps.... Even though I love them All I don't think we as a club want All The maps made by him alone... Not that it would be a bad thing but definitely a voting system and a cap of 5 is an ideal #... there are only 35 total maps and I only see 5 to 10 (Max) that need revamping.. It gives every Cartographer a chance to submit his idea...

BUT What happens in a tie???
or a situation... for example Widowmakers got his circus map voted in and gets the revamp..... I could just adjust my version and resubmit it as a new alternate....
Maybe there should be a poll on the best maps per Cartographer... then you could restrict how many they can submit as a revamp

Honestly, we can make all the plans we want, when people get the go ahead for revamps people will just work on the ones they decide. I doubt WidowMakers wants to do them all, and even if he did, as awesome as he is, someone else would probably want to work on the same ones and that someone else might do a better job. Stranger things have happened.