Conquer Club

The new Map Ideas sub-forum is causing quite a stir and spawning off topic discussion in a number of threads. So, lets have all discussion about this sub-forum in this topic and stop filling up map threads with unnecessary comments.

First of all, I don't understand what all the complaining is about. There has been a demand for sub-forums for months, and a more structured system to be put in place with these sub-forums. You guys have got exactly what you wanted, but now you have it you don't like it. Talked about spoiled brats!

If people have read over the Sub-Forum Organization & Other Things! announcement, everything should be pretty clear. Andy used to have a very structured system in place that handled map development very well. However, with the huge increase in new maps I think that system has been stretched beyond its means.

Now we have the sub-forums in place, with the aim of bringing back some of the structure to the map making process that I personally feel has lost some of its direction. People have been beating the drum about equal rights for all map makers, and I'd like to think that is the case. There are established cartographers complaining about the new system, because in my opinion they feel they're above it. If a new cartographer posted some of the drafts we've seen there wouldn't be so much complaining. Now that's fair is it?

Seriously, every development on this site is done so with the help and feedback of the community. We wouldn't have these sub-forums if the community did not want them. They wouldn't be in this format if the community hadn't suggested it. Give the new system time to settle in and work properly.

actually the main problem is caused by the fact that the sub-forums appeared some time before the announcement.

let me explain.

when the ideas forum appeared it was instantly filled with crappy threads about ideas posted numerous times before. normally all those threads should have belonged to the jota map ideas thread. why? because they are 1 post threads with an idea that the thread author has no intention of further developing.

the subforums are good and the way the new announcement intends to transform the foundry is also good. but because the ideas subforum is filled with crap some map makers are upset. (including me) many people don't visit this subforum because of those threads. because they don't want to see dozens of crappy threads before they notice a real map in development. this causes the serious maps to lack feedback.

now andy started a new ideas thread. i posted this in that thread:

DiM wrote:could you merge the idea threads here into this one?

threads like this:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21257

or this:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21250

or this:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21221

or the other numerous 1 post threads.



edit// i'm responding here to the below post to avoid filling the thread with conversation.

so the point is like this:

the guys that posted the threads presented above will probably never take the time to fill a form. so a mod should do it and then lock those threads. also i think this thread should be kept as clean as possible. meaning that all posts that don't have an idea are deleted. just keep ideas updated constantly in the first post and delete everything else. the old ideas thread was full of worthless converssation.

if what i suggested in the quote above is done, i'm sure the map ideas subforum would be really clean. one big thread with ideas where people that have an idea but don't want to work on it post, and several threads where maps begin production.

then people can come and see the maps in early stage but also look at some ideas if they want, without having to filter all the crap to find some real working maps.

i know it would take some work to clean this subforum but i belive wisse offered to do it. give him mod powers for a few days until he cleans this mess. it's just a matter of merging some threads and deleting some posts.


now about me and mibi. i still belive we have the right to be upset, i've worked for hours and i'm placed in the same spot as threads like the ones in the post above. and as for mibi i think this post explains it better:

DiM wrote:the main part of a map is the gameplay. right now mibi is working on that. after the gameplay is 100% done he will tackle the graphics. and as we saw he has great skill and his first gfx image is usually very close to the final stage. it's not like other map makers where they do dozens of graphic updates. he nails it from the first few tries. so basically the map will have a 100% set gameplay and 99% gfx and then it will be moved to development. it might seem ok, but actually it's not because the ideas sub-forum is rarely visited because it's full of crappy threads and junk. so this means the map will get very few comments. after it goes to the main forum with a 100% set gameplay and 99% gfx, lots of people will notice the map and other feedback will start coming, feedback that might request total gameplay and/or gfx changes. this is crappy because the map maker would either refuse the suggestions because the requests are about already discussed issues and hence the map will be of a lower quality, or if the map maker decides to listen to the new suggestions he'll then work a lot more because he has to redo a lot of things. as a result tension and frustration will appear.

if i wouldn't have my prison thread here i wouldn't even bother to enter this subforum and i bet a lot of people don't bother either. as a result the maps get less views and less feedback.

i hope this clears some of the confusion created aroud this whole subject and i hope my suggestions will help.

i never thought subforums were a good idea. as far as i can tell, it has only fractured and spread around the 'heat' in the foundry. so instead of having one firely place with lots of activity, we have several luke warm places with sporadic and diluted activity.

I have seen this happen before to other forums where the mods thought it would be a good idea to keep things organized with topics about xyz in xyz subforum and zbc in zbc subforum, and rarely do any of these subforums rebound to the activity level of the previous forum.

i used to check the map foundry forum many times a day, but now i feel like if i skip a day, im not missing much. it would be interesting to see some of the stats on activity since the forums were splintered.

The foundry is the 4th most active forum out of 8, yet has more sub forums that the most active forum. Im all for orginization, and I thought the map ideas stickied thread was doing a good job, although the mods rarely updated it, or the developmental atlas. but im afraid organization loses out to basic social dynmaics here, and the foundry seems pretty luke warm these days.

i know the simple solution for this,
we let all those idea threads merge with the new idea thread and than its solved, because there will be more attention to the maps in developement

if you are saying they have to fill in that form, i will fill in that form for every idea thread here

i dont think the forms nessesary. Despite Wisse nice nature, eh shouldnt have to fill out a form for every idea in order to make the forum more organised.

As for the issue of this sub forum, i think teh map ideas hould only be for map ideas. if someone post a thread sayni how do you like this idea, i think this would make a good map etc should be moved in here as the poster has no intention of doing the map themselfs. If there is any suggestion that the person who posts the thread (eg myself,MIBI and DiM) then is should be left in the main forum. Any map that doesnt go anywhere will fall into the foundry furnace becasue of the amount of activity in here anyway so wont be clogging up the foundry.

Just another idea: There should be a vaction/abandoned sub forum. Ths allows old ideas to be seen and ake it easier for a map maker to find his map when they return for vacation.

gimil wrote:Just another idea: There should be a vaction/abandoned sub forum. Ths allows old ideas to be seen and ake it easier for a map maker to find his map when they return for vacation.

thats called page 2

so ....


lol

gimil wrote:Just another idea: There should be a vaction/abandoned sub forum. Ths allows old ideas to be seen and ake it easier for a map maker to find his map when they return for vacation.

Yeah great idea. Have a whole sub forum so that nothing at all can happen there.

It's not hard to find an old thread. Especially one you wrote yourself.


FFS, people give the new forums a chance. There has been nothing but complaints so far.

I dont like the sub-forums either. What are the guidelines for these forums.

How long do maps stay in there till they come into the normal forum? Where is the feedback with the map makers? After all they are what makes this place work!!

I do have a suggestion though. After a map maker had posted in the main forum but has not met any of the guidelines "on how tom make a map" then the moderators can Move the map to the Map Ideas.

Also if the map does not gather a lot of feedback or after a work it looks like its going nowhere. case in point KLOBBER'S map, the honeycombe. Its a map going nowhere so off to the Map Ideas section with it.

Just a few suggestions

that's a bad idea humley because then people won't look at the map ideas section. they will see that place as only for maps that aren't going anywhere.

like spockers said, give it a chance. I don't see this as a big deal. as for more advanced maps being associated with the maps going nowhere, well they all have to start somewhere. I think this problem could be solved by adding a third map moderator. But, it's important they are someone who has the high standards matching those of Andy and Keyogi.

this would also help with the "problem" some people have with not getting some "official" feedback on their map.

thats ma excellent idea have a moderator who's job is to get ideas out of teh ideas thread and into teh foundry. or have a team of say 6 or 7 of teh foundrys cartographers who work in the ideas thread. Once a majority think an idea is ready to be moved teh tean tell andy of KEYOGI and they move it into the foundry.

trouble is if you have not noticed only a few regulars are posting. These new forums have fractured the Map foundry and posting has dropped...Hey hang on a minutue thats whats hes planning at.

Have a banana you earned it

DiM wrote:If what i suggested in the quote above is done, i'm sure the map ideas subforum would be really clean. one big thread with ideas where people that have an idea but don't want to work on it post, and several threads where maps begin production.

I would support this idea. The tournaments forum has a sticky like this rather than an entire sub-forum devoted to it. As DiM says, it would stop all these one post threads where the maps are so half-baked (to put it nicely) that no-one wants to reply. This would stop the genuinely promising maps from being mixed with those that the author would prefer if someone else would take on. This would also be good because it would allow more prolific mapmakers to work on the ideas of others, rather than just cluttering up a sub-forum with a load of ideas that won't progress unless a determined map-maker is behind it.