Problem, they say. There's a cancer in the Foundry process. The Foundry sucks. Stay away from the Foundry. Boo, Foundry!
So what's the problem with the Foundry?
(If you read all the way to the end, I will reveal the secret.)
spinwizard wrote:At the moment the main problem with the foundery is that their view on maps is not shared by the general CC public
The foundry is made up of the dozens of regulars (including spinwizard) and the hundreds of more casual visitors who make posts. There is not one collective view on maps, nor is there a collective CC view, as Coleman has pointed out. And the foundry continues to pump out a great variety of maps, from simple (Portugal, Italy, France, Midkemia) to more complex (Berlin, Pearl), so I refute this.
spiesr wrote:The general members of this site don't and will not participate in the foundry, that is the problem with the foundry.
As I've said, the simple fact that somebody chooses not to visit the Foundry is not in itself a problem. The Foundry continues to produce maps without the participation of many members. I refute this.
Coleman wrote:the problem is users just don't know about the foundry or even the forums in some instances.
Well, somehow these users who don't know that the forums exist do a pretty good job of starting debates like this in the forums. The people who really don't know about the forums are just here to play, so let's let them play. I refute this.
Anarkistsdream wrote:People need to be more invovled, but this forum is cluttered and hard to dig through. There are four thousand stickies and announcements...
Well, actually there is one announcement and four stickies, and there are fewer subforums than in either GD or Tournaments. I would agree that the Foundry could use a spring cleaning, and the volume of threads can be overwhelming, but your quote continues...
Anarkistsdream wrote:it is a very daunting thing for some newbie to come in here and post without being attacked verbally by either frequent posters or moderators.
We've heard much about this for the past two months, all stemming from one incident in which somebody was treated roughly by a Foundry regular who is known for his lack of tact (which he demonstrated in this thread). And I've not known Andy, Coleman, or Cairns to attack anybody, let alone a user who was simply posting a suggestion... their harshest criticism is directed at the mapmakers, and it is usually constructive. This is an issue which has gotten a lot of press recently in the Foundry, so let's run with it...
Anarkistsdream wrote:I have heard of several times where regular posters in this forum berate or make fun of a poster who is just trying to contribute.
A theme is developing...
wcaclimbing wrote:I have seen some new mapmakers post their attempted maps and get get completely slaughtered by many other foundry members, new, old, and even some of the guys at the top were all there, completely destroying him and his map.
Not going to name any names, but i can think of at least 2 not-so-good maps where someone from THIS thread (oh noes!) was a major contributor to destroying that guys hopes of ever creating a map.
So, is it true? Are we mean? And if we are, why don't I notice it? Because I've never seen anybody attacked in either of my map threads. And there was a very thoughtful discussion recently about how new maps are often ignored, in which it was suggested that sometimes we don't have the heart to dish out some much needed tough love when somebody is clearly in over his head.
There have been instances of Foundrites (my new term) being insulting. Too many. I've been guilty of this myself, though it's usually when somebody comes in to attack the Foundry. But here's what it comes down to: do the majority of CC members stay out of the Foundry as a result of the handful of actual incidents that have been mentioned? And have the majority of CC members been attacked when they try to post here? I'd say no. This is not the problem plaguing the Foundry.
So what's the problem?? I think I know... Ready?
We all take this too personally.
When the color scheme on my quenched map is attacked I take it personally.
When a complex map is quenched, users who like simple maps take it personally.
When a "small" map is quenched, small map haters take it personally.
When the Foundry is attacked, Coleman takes it so personally he quits his clan.
When somebody criticizes a new map project, the mapmaker takes it personally.
When a map isn't moved to Foundry or Forge, the mapmaker takes it personally.
When DiM is his lovable but tactless self people take it personally.
When somebody makes a map about Iraq, anti-war people take it personally.
When anti-war folks attack the map on Iraq, everybody else takes it personally.
When somebody makes a map of Europe and doesn't include Luxembourg, Luxembourgians take it personally.
So, do we change our ways? Police everything that is said? Attach a disclaimer to every post by DiM? No. We do what we've always been doing. We make maps, we give feedback on others' maps, and we play some games. And every two months we have a big fight about what's wrong with the Foundry, we make a little change, and then we move on. New Cartography Assistants are brought on board, celebrated, criticized, and ultimately get sick of it and quit.
And hopefully DiM won't take my comments personally... we all know this place wouldn't be the same without him.
