Conquer Club

So I, like many foundrarians, applauded the introduction of the Beta specification for new maps. It seemed to be an elegant solution to the potential problems with new maps that seemed to come to a head with the loading and subsequent removal of Das Schloss.

However, given that today the Beta tag was removed from Prison Riot, and since Halloween Hallows seemingly completely skipped that phase, I find myself at a loss for how the Beta period is being adjudicated.

For my money, the Beta phase for simple maps (i.e. Archipelago, Charleston, Haiti, etc.) should end when it's determined that the XML isn't broken, bonuses are not hideously unbalanced, and the map itself is visually clear. Thus, a couple of days to a week would be quite sufficient.

For more complex maps, the Beta stage should last longer. Hell, there's still quite a lively discussion of potential changes to bonuses and neutrals in the Prison Riot map, yet with the removal of the Beta tag it would appear that said map's setup and gameplay are now cast in stone. Obviously Hallows is a special case given the holiday, but skipping the Beta phase on a map that at the very least should be classified as Moderate on the complexity scale seems short-sighted.

So is there any reason to the rhyme here?

Doesn't seem like it. Lack of communication is the problem with regard to the Supermax situation. Or just a Lack of thought. Opening the map thread to see if there's any talk going on isn't that hard. Though, we have to remember that this is the type of place where people are asked to put all the latest map links on the most recent page when someone has noted where they are in the thread title and the type of place where people are asked for text links when right-clicking an image is something everybody knows how to do.

i can tell you that i was also surprised to see HH given the game status and advanced quickly after only two days or so.
I don't know but I may guess that it might have to be done like that to have all those speed games over Halloween. I don't know

On another note...

I assumed it would be

"BETA" -> "NEW" -> untagged.

C.

yeti_c wrote:On another note...

I assumed it would be

"BETA" -> "NEW" -> untagged.

C.

That's the way it's supposed to be (at least that's the way it was announced).

In actuality Beta is simply the old new tag with a different word.

except i feel like the beta just means that we can lower the quality of the gameplay and just change it later on... which is pretty lame

whitestazn88 wrote:except i feel like the beta just means that we can lower the quality of the gameplay and just change it later on... which is pretty lame

At no point will gameplay standards be drop due to the beta status map go into. I don't know where you got that assumption from but it is wrong.

gimil wrote:

whitestazn88 wrote:except i feel like the beta just means that we can lower the quality of the gameplay and just change it later on... which is pretty lame

At no point will gameplay standards be drop due to the beta status map go into. I don't know where you got that assumption from but it is wrong.

Well, since you're the first authority figure to poke his head in here, can you clarify how the beta tag works?

whitestazn88 wrote:except i feel like the beta just means that we can lower the quality of the gameplay and just change it later on... which is pretty lame

I don't think that this is the point of the "beta" tag - I've not telling mapmakers that their maps don't have to play well because they can always sort problems out in Beta. I don't think anybody around here has lowered their standards.

Rather, in light of a couple of maps that went live with some play issues beyond the usual XML glitches it seemed like players should be given warning that they are starting games on maps that may have some glitches, and that gameplay changes may happen mid-game. Had such a warning been given to players when they started Das Shloss games we could have changed the map while they are playing, but since they weren't we're now stuck waiting for a handful of games to finish before the map goes live again.

Why Hallows wasn't given beta I don't know - I haven't asked Andy or Lack, but I imagine it was just an oversight. Mistakes happen. As for Supermax... well, again I'm not sure what system Andy/Lack have for determining when to pull the Beta tag on a map, but it may need to be revisited. I admit to not following the goings-on of the Forge very closely these days, since most of my attention is elsewhere, but I'll ask some questions upstairs.

i'm not saying any map has been bad. the foundry, you all, do great work. but would halloween hallows have made the jump that quick? in my opinion no. it would probably still be in that "hey, is there anything else someone wants to say just to say it and delay this" stage... and then it would sit in FF forever after that.

i know lack made the exception because of the great theme, and the map still plays great. but to take a page out of qwert's book, a lot of maps got jumped over for that, and i don't think it had to go thru that same red tape a lot of other maps have gone thru because it could just jump to beta (as it was supposed to)

I took Hallows out of Beta because I didn't feel comfortable running a halloween party on a "beta" map and it was really a last minute preparation and I didn't have time to go through the proper channels. I'm sorry for the confusion.

Normally, Andy sends me lists of maps to take out of beta and I only take a maximum of 1 map out of beta per day to give the headlines enough time on the homepage.

i know lack made the exception because of the great theme, and the map still plays great. but to take a page out of qwert's book, a lot of maps got jumped over for that, and i don't think it had to go thru that same red tape a lot of other maps have gone thru because it could just jump to beta (as it was supposed to)

Whats these mean? Page out of qwert's book?

qwert wrote:

i know lack made the exception because of the great theme, and the map still plays great. but to take a page out of qwert's book, a lot of maps got jumped over for that, and i don't think it had to go thru that same red tape a lot of other maps have gone thru because it could just jump to beta (as it was supposed to)

Whats these mean? Page out of qwert's book?

It means...
"to act like or to make statements in the same manner"
this is not bad

cairnswk wrote:

qwert wrote:Whats these mean? Page out of qwert's book?

It means...
"to act like or to make statements in the same manner"
this is not bad

I don't know... there've been a few times that I wanted to rip a few pages out of qwert's book.

Anyway, there are plans underway that should help further streamline the Forge, but real life keeps getting in the way of implementation.