Conquer Club

Is it just me, or are there more really good maps entering the recycling bin this past while?

I keep being reminded of some maps like Balkans, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Trafalgar , Judea, The Three Kingdoms, South Africa, etc. And it saddens me to see many of these just pass along into the recycling bin for various reasons.

Please, if you don't feel like continuing a great map, give it to someone else, there is almost always someone who would be willing to finish it.

you could probably remove switzerland from your list.

I was working on it for a while, but things had stalled as I lost interest in mapmaking and didn't have much of a way to finish it.
Then Pamoa asked if he could give switzerland a try. Its not the same map style, but pamoa has a Switzerland map in Drafts.

The Neon Peon wrote:Is it just me, or are there more really good maps entering the recycling bin this past while?
.... Trafalgar ....
And it saddens me to see many of these just pass along into the recycling bin for various reasons...

Please be assured that Trafalgar will be ressurected over the Christmas period, but i guess it'll have to undergo some changes and i simply don't have the time at present.

However, my main concern at present is that nothing is moving at all.
I know Andy has not been attentive (for whatever reason), and activity in Foundry is slow, but i am also wondering if there
is another reason that lackattack hasn't been forthcoming with.
I guess i asked this question because once we got maps into beta/forge play quite quickly to fill the map numbers.
Now, it seems that process has stopped.
Is lackattack also being inattentive because of "so called lack of interest" and " concentrating on other projects"; or is it because there has been in increase in rates/prices that he is paying for hosting/serving the games that are played & in hold pattern while they fill up. I can't understand why he continues to use host space for 27 pages of games while they fill up. Could this "fill time" be reduced?
As an accounting student, It'd be intertesting to see "the income & costs" of running a site like this.

Perhaps he is not going to put up any more maps, and we are wasting our time.
I'd hate to think that is the case.

I think one major part of the slowdown is that a large section of veteran mapmakers just retired from cc at about the same time. Myself included.

wcaclimbing wrote:I think one major part of the slowdown is that a large section of veteran mapmakers just retired from cc at about the same time. Myself included.

wcaclimbing...i think we both know that's hogwash.
This slowdown was happening way before anyone retired.

EDIT: Sorry if i sound so blunt

Things have been slow of late in the Foundry - but at the same time, there are more maps in the Foundry than ever before, and more new mapmakers are turning their hand towards making maps.

One of the things I'd like to achieve is a quickening of the foundry process (in both ways of the word).

Some things (such as XML updates and the physical loading of maps) are dependent on the tortoise turtle (who has been on holiday for the past few weeks) - but there is no reason for us to slow things down to that pace.

There are likely to be changes in the way the foundry operates over the coming months - but I remain convinced that there are still plenty of good maps ahead of us

pesonally, i think that the slowness of handing out stamps, which may root from lack of feedback, is the sole issue.

either we somehow entice *cough*FORCE*cough* members to post in the foundry whenever they take a turn or start/enter a game, or we stop being as nitpicky on everything.


we should make stamps so that the community votes on whether a map gets a stamp and procedes. ie: a good vote counts as +1 and a bad vote coutns as -1, and once you get to a certain number ( ie: 75) the map will be reviewed by a foundry assistant just to be sure people werent just told to "good" vote, and there was actually an involved discussion in the thread

MrBenn wrote:Things have been slow of late in the Foundry - but at the same time, there are more maps in the Foundry than ever before, and more new mapmakers are turning their hand towards making maps.

That, I think, is the problem.

I used to be able to check by twice on every map, including those in the drafting room between updates and see how things were going. Right now, it takes me almost a week to find out that some map has been moved to recycling if it was not one I had been active in. I find myself spotting a map I had previously been looking at and found that there had been 2 updates since I had last seen the thread.

There are WAY more maps in the Foundry now, and if someone who mostly just drops in to take a glance can't look at all the maps, then how is a cartographer supposed to comment in even half of the ones that need their assistance? I think we need to get more cartographers on CC rather than mainly replacing old ones.

Or maybe we need to nail the slow ones out faster in all the rooms. It must feel intimidating to come into the foundry for the first time and see all those maps. We just need to make it seem like a faster process.

Possibly, we could have wayyyyy more foundry assistents, whose jobs are not only to help maps, but keep them going, maybe post once a day in at least half of the maps outside of the ideas forum.

People make maps at different paces, during the summer here I've been able to bang out an update almost every day, but once September rolls around I know it'll slow down, its why I've been pushing a little bit to get as many stamps as possible before then.

The answer isn't to force the community to make posts in the Foundry since most of what you get will be "Looks great!", "This map sucks", or "Keep up the good work." which won't add anything.

More Foundry assistants might be needed anyways, but to do it right considering the amount of maps currently in production you may have to add scores of people which may not be feasible.

A bit of streamlining in the process is the way to go, hopefully Mr. Benn has something in mind.

MrBenn wrote:Things have been slow of late in the Foundry - but at the same time, there are more maps in the Foundry than ever before, and more new mapmakers are turning their hand towards making maps.

One of the things I'd like to achieve is a quickening of the foundry process (in both ways of the word).

Some things (such as XML updates and the physical loading of maps) are dependent on the tortoise turtle (who has been on holiday for the past few weeks) - but there is no reason for us to slow things down to that pace.

There are likely to be changes in the way the foundry operates over the coming months - but I remain convinced that there are still plenty of good maps ahead of us

I think generally most work on maps tends to happen in the drafting process, the foundry is fine tuning and the Final Forge is just XML and final comments. The foundry itself does seem to get very nitpicky, especially when it comes to game-play.

My suggestion is to have map testing during the foundry process, call them alpha maps or something. If you make a signup process that limits who can play on these maps, you'll probably get folks knocking down the door to play and be involved. Get those folks to sign off on the map, Beta map it for the whole community and the process is complete. The hurtle would be getting images and XML files uploaded quicker, which Mr. Benn has already mentioned as a turtle in the ointment... to be able to something like this, someone(probably the foundry foreman, Mr. Benn) would need to have access to add files to the site, which I can't speak to, and it'll probably be the biggest issue.

The main foundery is where everything seems to really slow down. You'll have momentum going in there and then there are just a lot of small changes going through and nothing really major that peoplefell like they should way in on. I spen the majority of my time in the foundery in the drafting room or suggestions and ideas because that is easier to give feedback. aby the time it gets to the main foundery there is so little left that sticks out as wrong and the mapmaker is fairly set on the general gameplay that the only suggestions can be like "Make that a little darker" Instead of suggesting new gameplay twists. What I'm trying to say is that for most people the main foundery is boring and so suggestions begin to become less frequent which causes maps to dye. I could be wrong, but whatever.

Hmm, I'm not sure about draft room to Main, but ideas to draft is a huge slowdown.

Maybe instead of forcing everybody, we could have jury duty. We have a list of all the active players, and once or twice a month they must post a meaningful paragraph for a map selected by a mod. Consequences of not posting, or posting some thing like hi, good or bad, would be suspension of games. If we had a mod with a huge inbox, people could pm their "taxes" for every half month, and have their name renewed in advance to avoid game stalling.

A more organized way to do this would be to assign every player a " gov mod" who would collect taxes, and notify whoever that somebody needs a game suspension.
Each player would also be assigned two days of the month ( at least two weeks apart) that they need to post. On each assigned day, the player would receive a friendly reminder, and a warning that their game privilages will be suspened in x days if they don't turn their taxes in.

Quicker progression through the foundry would also help. Conquer crater has been in the draft room for 6 months now, and still no stamp, even though we have met all guidelines and requirements to advance.

To solve this, foundry mods and assistants need to send personal, but unbiased reports to the map makers, maybe weekly unless requested otherwise... These reports would tell the mapmaker what needs to be done to obtain the next stamp.

I might be a little biased about this whole thing though, since this is what's running through my mind :

cmon mr.benn!! Get this caged angel outta the draft room! We've been working our asses off in here to please you and the other mods!!!

sinctheassasin wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure about draft room to Main, but ideas to draft is a huge slowdown.

I actual think the exact opposite. Usually it is slow in ideas and then once someone finally gets a good enough draft up and it can go into the drafting room more people can comment and things. Posts in the ideas sub-forum are usually also not good feedback, since there is nothing to give feedback for. Just a lot of, "I like this".
It seems that a lot of bad maps are weeded out and dye in drafts, but goods maps still end up dying in the main foundry.

captainwalrus wrote:

sinctheassasin wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure about draft room to Main, but ideas to draft is a huge slowdown.

I actual think the exact opposite. Usually it is slow in ideas and then once someone finally gets a good enough draft up and it can go into the drafting room more people can comment and things. Posts in the ideas sub-forum are usually also not good feedback, since there is nothing to give feedback for. Just a lot of, "I like this".
It seems that a lot of bad maps are weeded out and dye in drafts, but goods maps still end up dying in the main foundry.

my maps ratio of draft room time to ideas room time is approximatly 7-1, while posts back from its ideas room phase make up about a third of all of its posts. Tells you a bit about your theory

Anyway, my new theory is that so many maps die becuase foundry noobs think it's so easy to make a map, as did I when I startEd conquer crater. I got a wakeup call from sailorseal and oaktwn in time to save me and my map.

I think our new policy should be " no updates in two weeks? It's going to the bin! "

look at it from the noob standpoint. You walk in and see a ton of maps outside the ideas thread. You think that maps are mass produced, and therefore do not take much time to make. You conclude that making a map is easy.

You post an idea, and just use a quick burst of creativity to put it into the draft room. You soon realize that map making is not as easy as your mother.

Your map is abandoned, and is permitted to be left in the room for a month, for other Noobs to be fooled by... It's a vicious circle...

Hey, someone should make a map of Narnia. Also, a map of China is a good idea as well.

sinctheassasin wrote:Your map is abandoned, and is permitted to be left in the room for a month, for other Noobs to be fooled by... It's a vicious circle...

guilty, i'm afraid! i'll be keeping a closer eye on maps where the mapmaker has disappeared.

Donald Fung wrote:Hey, someone should make a map of Narnia. Also, a map of China is a good idea as well.

welcome to the foundry, donald! narnia is copyrighted, so lackattack will veto it unless the mapmaker has permission. there's already a map of china: it's called greater china and includes the provinces of mainland china, plus hong kong and taiwan.

ian.

To bring the thread back on topic...

MrBenn wrote:Things have been slow of late in the Foundry - but at the same time, there are more maps in the Foundry than ever before, and more new mapmakers are turning their hand towards making maps.

One of the things I'd like to achieve is a quickening of the foundry process (in both ways of the word).

Some things (such as XML updates and the physical loading of maps) are dependent on the tortoise turtle (who has been on holiday for the past few weeks) - but there is no reason for us to slow things down to that pace.

There are likely to be changes in the way the foundry operates over the coming months - but I remain convinced that there are still plenty of good maps ahead of us

At the moment, I'm trying to focus on the maps that are already in the main foundry - which is feeling a bit congested.

One of the ways that people could help to bring maps to life, is to pay some critical thought to the mechanics of gameplay for main foundry maps that are not yet stamped for gameplay

Donald Fung wrote:Hey, someone should make a map of Narnia. Also, a map of China is a good idea as well.

welcome to the foundry, donald! narnia is copyrighted, so lackattack will veto it unless the mapmaker has permission. there's already a map of china: it's called greater china and includes the provinces of mainland china, plus hong kong and taiwan.

ian. [/quote]

oh ok didn't know about copyrights and didn’t look for China carefully enough. But CC needs a map for Japan (and this time I did check that there wasn’t any).

^^

oh ok didn't know about copyrights and didn’t look for China carefully enough. But CC needs a map for Japan (and this time I did check that there wasn’t any).

there one in the works read over the topic and comment
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=89504

Danyael wrote:^^

oh ok didn't know about copyrights and didn’t look for China carefully enough. But CC needs a map for Japan (and this time I did check that there wasn’t any).

there one in the works read over the topic and comment
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=89504

What he said {slips Dan a fin}

Yeah, there are a lot of maps in the Foundry, many of which only have the Draft stamp, more discussions on gameplay and checking to see if current maps are meeting the requirements to move maps onto graphic development and onto the Forge.