Conquer Club

Accused: M3MENT0

The accused are suspected of: Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s): Game 16325673

Comments: Come on... this guy has too many games and too much experience to try and toe the rules like this... looks like secret diplomacy to me and if i were in the game with him, i'd be pissed... i think the wall comments speak for themselves... subtle? yes... but not THAT subtle... he should know better than this... especially in a game where the chat is just open and lively and everyone is communicating. no need to post on a wall for chat that should be in the game chat.



Close up of the comments:



the black jesus has spoken...-Bj

I wrote on his wall to ask him to answer what I asked in game chat... literally. Meaning, I hadn't had a response, and wanted him to answer me, and for the answer to be in game chat. Get a life.

M3MENT0 wrote:I wrote on his wall to ask him to answer what I asked in game chat... literally. Meaning, I hadn't had a response, and wanted him to answer me, and for the answer to be in game chat. Get a life.

that is awesome... so what about this?

M3MENT0 wrote:hey, i couldn't get a card because you have me blocked in bud. i can't get to yellow when i'm trapped.

uh huh... yes, i see... good answer... that right there, that is secret diplomacy... very subtle, but secret diplomacy... i imagine you'll get a warning... good luck...-Bj

- Mento - Messaging wout28 (Cyan) about moving so you can get to Yellow is secret diplomacy because Yellow won't know your trying to get him, only you and wout28 would know, and wout probably didn't respond beçause he was already in midst of coordinating in war chat with Yellow about another move.

- Ànd though revealing info about troop count in fog is not "illegal", It probably has something to do with your 4.0 rating, It's frowned upon by the majority of members, which in my perspective makes it morally illegal.

-\MGM/-♎

1) If you read the chat from that game, you would know that I made it very obvious I was coming for yellow, and was trying to coordinate as such. I hadn't had much of a response from chat and didn't want to accidentally start a war because my attack was misinterpreted. There was nothing contained in the wall post that couldn't also be understood from the chat

2) I'd like a link to where you polled every player on this site to get their opinion of giving out troop counts in fog games so that you could conclude it's a majority opinion that its "frowned upon"

3) Fortunately, the opinion of a couple nobodys with nothing better to do than troll the walls of people for a fictitious rule violation from a game they aren't even in is completely irrelevant.

MagnusGreeol wrote:- Mento - Messaging wout28 (Cyan) about moving so you can get to Yellow is secret diplomacy because Yellow won't know your trying to get him, only you and wout28 would know, and wout probably didn't respond beçause he was already in midst of coordinating in war chat with Yellow about another move.

- Ànd though revealing info about troop count in fog is not "illegal", It probably has something to do with your 4.0 rating, It's frowned upon by the majority of members, which in my perspective makes it morally illegal.

-\MGM/-♎

you are absolutely 100% correct on the bolded red portion. That is, without a doubt, secret diplomacy. your comments on revealing troops in fog, i'll touch base on with my response to his post... however, you are spot on about what he did being secret diplomacy.

M3MENT0 wrote:1) If you read the chat from that game, you would know that I made it very obvious I was coming for yellow, and was trying to coordinate as such. I hadn't had much of a response from chat and didn't want to accidentally start a war because my attack was misinterpreted. There was nothing contained in the wall post that couldn't also be understood from the chat

2) I'd like a link to where you polled every player on this site to get their opinion of giving out troop counts in fog games so that you could conclude it's a majority opinion that its "frowned upon"

3) Fortunately, the opinion of a couple nobodys with nothing better to do than troll the walls of people for a fictitious rule violation from a game they aren't even in is completely irrelevant.

1. if it is clear in chat, then why post on his wall, where only he can see it? it is secret diplomacy, period

2. i agree with you on the fog rule. i don't think a majority of players frown upon it, and it isn't against the rules. i too would love to see where this "silent majority" is, because i keep hearing about them, but i only see the same guys in the forums. however, i play very little fog and think the setting is one of the main reasons for the decline in site membership, along with TRENCH.

3. yes, you told me.. wow, i am a nobody... but guess what, the black jesus is ALWAYS right. and it is not a fictitious rule violation, it is clear cut. Clear cut enough that this has moved to PENDING vs. CLEARED. you will receive a warning. you will be upset. you will cry a little into your pillow, but you will get over it. and as far as "trolling" walls, i was asking the member you attempted secret diplomacy with, if he had a team member to join a dubs game of mine that he jumped into a few days ago, that is still waiting to start. hardly "trolling" walls looking for fictitious offenses. just so happens i stumbled onto the greatest secret diplomacy violation of this calendar year.

the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir


sometimes, you just stumble across scandals...

I played 2 games against memento, he discussed strategy on the walls of other players both times, and then flat out denies it.

In the other game 16151949 he discussed with usidyr, but the walls are cleared by now
2016-02-27 18:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair... . He had responces of usidyr on his wall too, but these have been cleared ass well.

ridcully wrote:I played 2 games against memento, he discussed strategy on the walls of other players both times, and then flat out denies it.

In the other game 16151949 he discussed with usidyr, but the walls are cleared by now

2016-02-27 18:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair... . He had responces of usidyr on his wall too, but these have been cleared ass well.

he openly admits to posting diplomacy on walls, because people don't read the chat. WOW.

Game 16151949

Game Chat wrote:2016-02-27 12:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair...
2016-02-27 12:06:25 - ridcully: Reading that, its clear why you stopped warring on red. Kind of feel its kind secret deplomaty as you cant expect us to keep checking your walls before each turn.
2016-02-27 12:11:52 - ridcully: It makes me wonder what red said to green; greens been reds ally for the entire game now.
2016-02-27 15:15:41 - M3MENT0: wtf you talking about
2016-02-27 15:16:06 - M3MENT0: If anything was posted, it was to direct them to what was said in game chat since come people don't read it.
2016-02-27 15:16:46 - M3MENT0: I've written on everyone's wall this game, if I recall.
2016-02-27 15:25:46 - ridcully: not mine
2016-02-27 15:30:29 - ridcully: look at pinks wall before lying about it like you do about everything else

and ridcully is 100% correct, the walls were cleared. wonder if some high ranking player contacted the lower ranked players and asked them to do so... hmmmm... this is getting shadier and shadier... i am very interested to hear what M&M has to say now, oh wait, he already admitted to the offense in the above game chat... mods/admins should contact the players that ridcully stated he saw chat on their walls. this is just the tip of M&M's iceberg... looks like the BLACK JESUS was right... then again, the black jesus is always right...-Jésus noir


M&M before the scandal... such a nice kid...

- Fog and trench are just settings? How would CC be declining because of this, All one has to do is play sunny no trench yes?

- And the "silent majority" also believes the "C" word and Mama bashing is uncouth. People who like to give away fog positions/info should just play sunny, otherwise I do think it's underhanded deliberately and knowingly from past thrills, that one joins a fog war and blabs fog info, how about just play sunny and not have to say anything?,, Oh, because the thrill of blabbing a fog position would be stripped away and not as fun?

-\MGM/-♎

MagnusGreeol wrote:- Fog and trench are just settings? How would CC be declining because of this, All one has to do is play sunny no trench yes?

- And the "silent majority" also believes the "C" word and Mama bashing is uncouth. People who like to give away fog positions/info should just play sunny, otherwise I do think it's underhanded deliberately and knowingly from past thrills, that one joins a fog war and blabs fog info, how about just play sunny and not have to say anything?,, Oh, because the thrill of blabbing a fog position would be stripped away and not as fun?

-\MGM/-♎

and what does this have to do with the matter at hand? he isn't accused of violating the non-existent fog exposure rule. he is accused of secret diplomacy. let's stay on topic. thank you. feel free to PM me... i don't want this to lose track, seems like a pretty serious case and i don't want lockage due to derailment...-Bj

p.s.-you know my stances on those settings, they are in the decline thread. come on.

the post you bumped, the case cracker!!!:

owenshooter wrote:

ridcully wrote:I played 2 games against memento, he discussed strategy on the walls of other players both times, and then flat out denies it.

In the other game 16151949 he discussed with usidyr, but the walls are cleared by now

2016-02-27 18:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair... . He had responces of usidyr on his wall too, but these have been cleared ass well.

he openly admits to posting diplomacy on walls, because people don't read the chat. WOW.

Game 16151949

Game Chat wrote:2016-02-27 12:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair...
2016-02-27 12:06:25 - ridcully: Reading that, its clear why you stopped warring on red. Kind of feel its kind secret deplomaty as you cant expect us to keep checking your walls before each turn.
2016-02-27 12:11:52 - ridcully: It makes me wonder what red said to green; greens been reds ally for the entire game now.
2016-02-27 15:15:41 - M3MENT0: wtf you talking about
2016-02-27 15:16:06 - M3MENT0: If anything was posted, it was to direct them to what was said in game chat since come people don't read it.
2016-02-27 15:16:46 - M3MENT0: I've written on everyone's wall this game, if I recall.
2016-02-27 15:25:46 - ridcully: not mine
2016-02-27 15:30:29 - ridcully: look at pinks wall before lying about it like you do about everything else

and ridcully is 100% correct, the walls were cleared. wonder if some high ranking player contacted the lower ranked players and asked them to do so... hmmmm... this is getting shadier and shadier... i am very interested to hear what M&M has to say now, oh wait, he already admitted to the offense in the above game chat... mods/admins should contact the players that ridcully stated he saw chat on their walls. this is just the tip of M&M's iceberg... looks like the BLACK JESUS was right... then again, the black jesus is always right...-Jésus noir


M&M before the scandal... such a nice kid...

SD or not, the safest option is to always keep game related chat in the game. Posting on walls should be limited to directing said player to look at the chat in the game without any suggestion whatsoever of what is being discussed.

iAmCaffeine wrote:SD or not, the safest option is to always keep game related chat in the game. Posting on walls should be limited to directing said player to look at the chat in the game without any suggestion whatsoever of what is being discussed.

owenshooter wrote:

MagnusGreeol wrote:- Fog and trench are just settings? How would CC be declining because of this, All one has to do is play sunny no trench yes?

- And the "silent majority" also believes the "C" word and Mama bashing is uncouth. People who like to give away fog positions/info should just play sunny, otherwise I do think it's underhanded deliberately and knowingly from past thrills, that one joins a fog war and blabs fog info, how about just play sunny and not have to say anything?,, Oh, because the thrill of blabbing a fog position would be stripped away and not as fun?

-\MGM/-♎

and what does this have to do with the matter at hand? he isn't accused of violating the non-existent fog exposure rule. he is accused of secret diplomacy. let's stay on topic. thank you. feel free to PM me... i don't want this to lose track, seems like a pretty serious case and i don't want lockage due to derailment...-Bj

p.s.-you know my stances on those settings, they are in the decline thread. come on.

the post you bumped, the case cracker!!!:

owenshooter wrote:

ridcully wrote:I played 2 games against memento, he discussed strategy on the walls of other players both times, and then flat out denies it.

In the other game 16151949 he discussed with usidyr, but the walls are cleared by now

2016-02-27 18:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair... . He had responces of usidyr on his wall too, but these have been cleared ass well.

he openly admits to posting diplomacy on walls, because people don't read the chat. WOW.

Game 16151949

Game Chat wrote:2016-02-27 12:00:21 - ridcully: Just noticed you guys held a semi private conference on your walls. Not sure how I feel about that. It seems a bit unfair...
2016-02-27 12:06:25 - ridcully: Reading that, its clear why you stopped warring on red. Kind of feel its kind secret deplomaty as you cant expect us to keep checking your walls before each turn.
2016-02-27 12:11:52 - ridcully: It makes me wonder what red said to green; greens been reds ally for the entire game now.
2016-02-27 15:15:41 - M3MENT0: wtf you talking about
2016-02-27 15:16:06 - M3MENT0: If anything was posted, it was to direct them to what was said in game chat since come people don't read it.
2016-02-27 15:16:46 - M3MENT0: I've written on everyone's wall this game, if I recall.
2016-02-27 15:25:46 - ridcully: not mine
2016-02-27 15:30:29 - ridcully: look at pinks wall before lying about it like you do about everything else

and ridcully is 100% correct, the walls were cleared. wonder if some high ranking player contacted the lower ranked players and asked them to do so... hmmmm... this is getting shadier and shadier... i am very interested to hear what M&M has to say now, oh wait, he already admitted to the offense in the above game chat... mods/admins should contact the players that ridcully stated he saw chat on their walls. this is just the tip of M&M's iceberg... looks like the BLACK JESUS was right... then again, the black jesus is always right...-Jésus noir


M&M before the scandal... such a nice kid...

I

- I agree with both of you, Sorry about attempted derail OS! ")

- Budda Bing Budda Bang, evidence has been presented! Salute CC!! ")

-\MGM/-♎

Dealt with.

a 1 week ban from what? conducting secret diplomacy?

guested for a week seems pretty harsh for SD, dontcha think? especially if it's his first offense...

riskllama wrote:guested for a week seems pretty harsh for SD, dontcha think? especially if it's his first offense...

i think it was the proper decision... it was not his "first offense", it was the first time it had been brought to the mods attention. just from those three games i looked at, there was an astounding amount of secret diplomacy and outright lying on M3M's part... and once again, the black jesus is never wrong...-Bj

p.s.-i have faith in M&M, he'll learn from this and come back stronger than ever...
p.p.s.-can anyone find another Secret Diplomacy case that ended like this?!
p.p.p.s.-and he was stripped of premium, which is interesting, because he called me a freemium loser.

i wonder if he is going to grace us with his presence when he can post again and apologize for conducting secret diplomacy, which he denied/lied about. i don't think he is that type of stand up guy, so i doubt it. i only hope he doesn't instill this type of behaviour in the young minds he shapes as a teacher... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

p.s.-llama thought he was unable to play in games, hence why he thought it was too harsh. it has been explained to him and he now thinks it is less harsh than before.

not going to read through everything, but from what I see, the guy was just trying to get an answer from something in the game chat the other wasn't responding to. so yeah, he shouldn't ve been so specific on the wall... but a 1 week ban for that????
not sure what it means... kicked out from all his games or he just can't join new games for a week? if it's the second option well ok...
but if he's been stripped his premium for that seems a bit too much IMO.


.

betiko wrote:not going to read through everything, but from what I see, the guy was just trying to get an answer from something in the game chat the other wasn't responding to. so yeah, he shouldn't ve been so specific on the wall... but a 1 week ban for that????
not sure what it means... kicked out from all his games or he just can't join new games for a week? if it's the second option well ok...
but if he's been stripped his premium for that seems a bit too much IMO.


.

"i'm not reading this, but i'm going to comment on it, despite not knowing anything about it...", wonderful attitude. ha.

first of all, your summation is absolutely wrong. another player from a few of his games came in and stated he was posting on walls in two different games and denying it. the walls were scrubbed clean. second of all, he admitted to posting on people's walls, because not everyone reads the chat. so, that right there is an admission of secret diplomacy. posting, "hey, read the game chat" is different than, "hey, i cant get to yellow, because you are in the way." one is within the rules, the other is a blatant rule violation. and apparently, what he was doing in the other games was far worse than what i stumbled across.

as far as the week punishment. how is that too harsh? for one week, he won't be able to conduct secret diplomacy in his 20 plus games he has going. he can't post in the forums, can't post on walls, can't PM and can't post in global or the other chats (the chat bonus he scored all on his own)... so, he can't post in the places he was conducting his secret diplomacy, that is all, how is that harsh? he can still take turns, he isn't going to lose rank from this, he just can't post in various places.

the stiffest part of the punishment is the stripping of premium, considering he called me a "freemium loser." guess he isn't aware that the black jesus goes back and forth between pre and free, at the whim of the generous members / owners of CC... so, obviously, whatever they found was pretty severe, to strip him of his premium. other than that, i think the punishment actually fit the crime, nicely.

the black jesus is always right...-Jésus noir

MENTOS will be back soon enough...

riskllama wrote:guested for a week seems pretty harsh for SD, dontcha think? especially if it's his first offense...

I'm assuming he has a warning already for SD. Which would result in the 1 week ban.

Remember, not all cases are posted in C&A.

betiko wrote:not going to read through everything, but from what I see, the guy was just trying to get an answer from something in the game chat the other wasn't responding to. so yeah, he shouldn't ve been so specific on the wall... but a 1 week ban for that????
not sure what it means... kicked out from all his games or he just can't join new games for a week? if it's the second option well ok...
but if he's been stripped his premium for that seems a bit too much IMO.


.

He's only put into Freemium until he's off his 1 week ban. (I think, I haven't been a hunter for awhile now).

TheForgivenOne wrote:

riskllama wrote:guested for a week seems pretty harsh for SD, dontcha think? especially if it's his first offense...

I'm assuming he has a warning already for SD. Which would result in the 1 week ban.

Remember, not all cases are posted in C&A.

hey, that statement came from when he thought he was tossed from all his games... you know, not guested, but GUESTED (the big one)... after it was clarified that he was still in games, just not able to post/communicate in areas he had conducted secret diplomacy, i think everyone calmed down.

TheForgivenOne wrote:He's only put into Freemium until he's off his 1 week ban. (I think, I haven't been a hunter for awhile now).

i think he loses premium, i don't think he gets it back. why put someone in freemium to not make games for a week, when they already have well over 20? i really liked the input from a former hunter. and i really like cases like this where people stumble across things innocently, call it into question and results happen. from speaking to others involved, that he conducted secret diplomacy with or was in games with when conducting it with someone else, it was a bit of a bully situation. and if you aren't familiar with the forums and the rules and how the C&A process works, a Brig in a game telling you that you are incorrect, can be intimidating to newer players.

so, we all learned something. most importantly, the person that was conducting this secret diplomacy in such a blatant matter, but did not realize it was secret diplomacy, learned he was wrong. however, i truly believe he knew what he was doing or walls would not have been scrubbed clean. anyway, thanks for the post, again always nice to hear from a former member of the team... the black jesus is still never wrong!!-Jésus noir

BigWham at the CC team party, discussing the Black Jesus

Its a well known fact that people don't always read the game chat in multiplayer games. In my experience the lower their rank the slower they are to read the game chat, all things being equal.

I've never run afoul of the rules by posting "please read the game chat in" and a link to the game. Yes that occasionally still isn't read, but what can you do? Their not reading is kinda the same thing as a Cook randomly going off on you in a large game...you can limit the chances of it happening (them missing the game chat) but it will happen from time to time, just like the random Cook irrational play.

owenshooter wrote:

TheForgivenOne wrote:

riskllama wrote:guested for a week seems pretty harsh for SD, dontcha think? especially if it's his first offense...

I'm assuming he has a warning already for SD. Which would result in the 1 week ban.

Remember, not all cases are posted in C&A.

hey, that statement came from when he thought he was tossed from all his games... you know, not guested, but GUESTED (the big one)... after it was clarified that he was still in games, just not able to post/communicate in areas he had conducted secret diplomacy, i think everyone calmed down.

TheForgivenOne wrote:He's only put into Freemium until he's off his 1 week ban. (I think, I haven't been a hunter for awhile now).

i think he loses premium, i don't think he gets it back. why put someone in freemium to not make games for a week, when they already have well over 20? i really liked the input from a former hunter. and i really like cases like this where people stumble across things innocently, call it into question and results happen. from speaking to others involved, that he conducted secret diplomacy with or was in games with when conducting it with someone else, it was a bit of a bully situation. and if you aren't familiar with the forums and the rules and how the C&A process works, a Brig in a game telling you that you are incorrect, can be intimidating to newer players.

so, we all learned something. most importantly, the person that was conducting this secret diplomacy in such a blatant matter, but did not realize it was secret diplomacy, learned he was wrong. however, i truly believe he knew what he was doing or walls would not have been scrubbed clean. anyway, thanks for the post, again always nice to hear from a former member of the team... the black jesus is still never wrong!!-Jésus noir

BigWham at the CC team party, discussing the Black Jesus

He should get his premium back. Think of it like an account being suspended for Point dumping. They can still play games, but that's it. Can't do anything else (That includes create games).

**Probably a poor example, but still. His account has basically been stripped back to the bare minimum until his ban is done, then he get's it back.

TheForgivenOne wrote:He should get his premium back. Think of it like an account being suspended for Point dumping. They can still play games, but that's it. Can't do anything else (That includes create games).

**Probably a poor example, but still. His account has basically been stripped back to the bare minimum until his ban is done, then he get's it back.

i thought when you were stripped, you had to pay to get it back, after your suspension was up. so, you are telling me that in all the point dumping cases we have had, that when they are GUESTed, they get their premium back after the suspension? i just don't believe that is true. you made that comparison, so maybe it was just a poor comparison. i literally have been led to believe that when you are stripped, you have to buy back in.

which is one of the largest complaints this site has ever had from forum goers. forum goers get Guested, lose their premium for words they posted, get banned for a week or 6 months or whatever, then have to buy back in to gain their premium. Game users break the first rule of the site, get premium stripped and can buy right back in and keep playing without a significant vacation from the game.

anyway, you were on the team, so that is literally news to me, if it is accurate. not saying you are wrong, i have just never heard this before. really interesting if that is how it is done...-Bj