Conquer Club

DYN-TNC 4-8 2013-08-14

G1-FOED 6-6 2013-08-16

WAR-TOFU 6-6 2013-08-13

I can't find Round 15 !?!

The_Samurai wrote:I can't find Round 15 !?!

Did you have a bye?

The_Samurai wrote:I can't find Round 15 !?!

Click round 14. The 15th is hide there. You are 4-7 but with a wwii on going.

Does it helps?

LEQUEEN wrote:

The_Samurai wrote:I can't find Round 15 !?!

Click round 14. The 15th is hide there. You are 4-7 but with a wwii on going.

Does it helps?

fixed!

cheers guys

TNC-WAR 7-5 2013-08-18

TOFU-FALL 5-7 2013-08-17

TOFU-DYN 6-6 2013-08-18

What do LoW need from tffs/foed & hh to guarantee this, and how close are they to doing so?!

Leehar wrote:What do LoW need from tffs/foed & hh to guarantee this, and how close are they to doing so?!

think they pretty much have it, even with tffs loss, foed looks good to them

they have this TOFU-LOW 5-7 2013-02-19

and it's 2nd in line criteria for winning

HOW TO WIN?
-have the most points
-if same points then head to head score

but too soon to call anything, there have been many upsets in last rounds so..

If I could have some feedback on the lenght of the league and any other insights, possible improvements, etc., that would be nice.

Have some things in mind, but need to hear from any of you too.

thx

In the event of a draw (a tie) for first place then it would be better/fairer if the deciding factor was the overall games won/lost record rather than the head-to-head record. The head-to-head could be used as the last determining factor, after points and win/loss. We ended up in the unfortunate position of knowing we couldn't beat LOW even if we drew on points, as they won the head-to-head, which made the remainder of our games somewhat stale and insignificant.

Other than the above suggestion, no qualms whatsoever with the length and format - it's been great fun. Thanks for hosting benga.

I'll have to concur with my clan mate here. Seems to have been run smoooooth as. Excellent work benga, like always. Your tourneys always were great.
I started out hardly feeling I had time for it, but have been enjoying it more and more as it ticked along.

Well done LOW

Chariot of Fire wrote:We ended up in the unfortunate position of knowing we couldn't beat LOW even if we drew on points, as they won the head-to-head, which made the remainder of our games somewhat stale and insignificant.

This is just coincidence. It could also happen the totally opposite scenario, if LOW have 3 points more, but TOFU won your match and TOFU has lower overall games/lost. In that case with this scenario you would still have chance and in scenario which you propose you would not have chance, so the argument that you lost hope before last round and that is why this system is bad does not stay.

I support head to head matches over overall score, that is how the most soccer leagues works anyways.

josko.ri wrote:

Chariot of Fire wrote:We ended up in the unfortunate position of knowing we couldn't beat LOW even if we drew on points, as they won the head-to-head, which made the remainder of our games somewhat stale and insignificant.

This is just coincidence. It could also happen the totally opposite scenario, if LOW have 3 points more, but TOFU won your match and TOFU has lower overall games/lost. In that case with this scenario you would still have chance and in scenario which you propose you would not have chance, so the argument that you lost hope before last round and that is why this system is bad does not stay.

I support head to head matches over overall score, that is how the most soccer leagues works anyways.

actualy head to head go last--first points>second goal difference, and then head to head.

Qwert wrote:

josko.ri wrote:

Chariot of Fire wrote:We ended up in the unfortunate position of knowing we couldn't beat LOW even if we drew on points, as they won the head-to-head, which made the remainder of our games somewhat stale and insignificant.

This is just coincidence. It could also happen the totally opposite scenario, if LOW have 3 points more, but TOFU won your match and TOFU has lower overall games/lost. In that case with this scenario you would still have chance and in scenario which you propose you would not have chance, so the argument that you lost hope before last round and that is why this system is bad does not stay.

I support head to head matches over overall score, that is how the most soccer leagues works anyways.

actualy head to head go last--first points>second goal difference, and then head to head.

Qwert, that depends on the league. In some, head to head prevails in others its goal difference

Argentina Primera Division: Playoff at neutral venue
Austrian Bundesliga: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored
Campeonato Brasileiro Série A: 1. Number of wins, 2. Goal difference, 3. Goals scored, 4. Head-to-head (with away goals rule), 5. Lower number of red cards, 6. Lower number of yellow cards, 7. Drawing lots (unless for title or relegation, in which case: playoff at neutral venue)
Belgium Erste Klasse: 1. Games won, 2. Two-legged play-off
English Premier League: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored, 3. Playoff at neutral venue (if for title, relegation or Euro qualification, otherwise: teams share position)
France Ligue 1: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored
German Bundesliga: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored, 3. Head to head points, 4. Head to head goal difference, 5. Head to head away goals scored, 6. Total away goals scored, 7. Playoff at neutral venue
Super League Greece: 1. Head to head points, 2. Head to head goal difference, 3. Playoff at neutral venue
Italy Serie A: 1. Head to head records, 2. Goal difference
J-League (Japan): 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored, 3. Head-to-head points, 4. Head-to-head goal difference, 5. Head-to-head goals scored, 6. Fairplay points (lower number wins), 7. Drawing of lots
Major League Soccer (USA): 1. Head to head, 2. Goal difference, 3. Goals scored, 4. Start tie-breakers again but away games only, 5. And again with home games only, 6. Fewest disciplinary points, 7. Coin toss (no, seriously!)
Primera División de México: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored
Netherlands Eredivise: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored
Polish Ekstraklasa: 1. Head-to-head points, 2. Head-to-head goal difference, 3. Head-to-head “away goals” rule, 4. Goal difference, 5. Goals scored, 6. Fair Play classification, 7. Playoff at neutral venue
Portuguese Liga: 1. Head to head points, 2. Head to head goal difference, 3. Head to head away goals scored, 4. Goal difference, 5. Number of wins
Russian Premier League: 1. Number of wins, 2. Goal differece (But if to decide title then: Number of wins, head to head results, championship playoff at neutral venue)
Scottish Premier League: 1. Goal difference, 2. goals scored
Spain La Liga: 1. Head to head points, 2. Head to head goal difference, 3. Head to head goals scored, 4. Goal difference, 5. Goals scored
Allsvenskan (Sweden): 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored
Turkish Süper Lig: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored
…
UEFA Champions League group stage: 1. Head to head points, 2. Head to head goal difference, 3. Away goals between tied teams, 4. Goal difference, 5. Goals scored, 6. UEFA co-effecient points
AFC Champions League group stage: 1. Head-to-head points, 2. Head-to-head goal difference, 3. Head-to-head goals scored, 4. Goal difference in all group games, 5. Goals scored in all group games, 6. PKs (if they played against each other in the final game of the group), 7. Fairplay points (lower number wins, meaning fewer yellow and reds accumulated), 8. Drawing of lots
World Cup group stage: 1. Goal difference, 2. Goals scored, 3. Head to head points, 4. Head to head goal difference, 5. Drawing of lots (for reals, see page 20)

One thing I wouldn't mind for the next one would be if say TOFU and us were tied in points after all these months, is to have a 2nd match (maybe between 15 and 19 games?) between the the top 2 teams in the event of a tie.

But overall, benga has done a great job running this, and I'm sure it will gather even more clans next year.

Crazyirishman wrote:One thing I wouldn't mind for the next one would be if say TOFU and us were tied in points after all these months, is to have a 2nd match (maybe between 15 and 19 games?) between the the top 2 teams in the event of a tie.

But overall, benga has done a great job running this, and I'm sure it will gather even more clans next year.

It really doesn't matter how we deal with tie, those rules are know at the start.

With 17 clans now I have outcries that is takes so long and some wanted to drop,
if we have even more I will need to come up with some new ideas.

This shouldn't last more then 6 months, so league with 14 clans at most is the goal I guess.

So either I split clans in 2 divisions and winner of each play each other or
I do div1 and 2 with promotion and relegation or the third option
based on results in RL top 10 teams have a secured place while the last 4 dropped and cannot compete in next RL while 4 brand new clans enter, that way all clans would be fighting hard even at later stages.

Probably will add Random Cup opened for all clans (competing in RL will not be req).

Don't expect start of new league until October.

Very well run benga, thank you! Great fun to be apart of.

My only comment was to have the full schedule listed here in the thread as well, which I knew cuased you headaches. I suppose the best way to get around that would be reserve another post below for whole schedule, and use the one you currently use for score updates etc. like you prefer to do?

Length was fine for us. Tie breaker is fine, however you like as you mention - as long as its listed ahead of time @ sign ups.

Benga great job
Regarding the tie issue:
1st nothing to worry we will win by 3, 5 or 6 points :p
2nd i am with benga, whatever the criteria is ... Its pibluc from the start
3rd i am with josko. The criteria change from league to league: head to head, win didference, most wins or tiebreak
4th wicht criteria? I am not sure probably head to head or wins difference. But anyone is good
5th add a final criteria, if tie in all criteria, OSA win!!

I am really enjoing the league, however it will end (remember its not finish yet and anything can happend like last round)

benga wrote:It really doesn't matter how we deal with tie, those rules are know at the start.

This!

Čestitke benga, super odrađena liga!

josko.ri wrote:

Chariot of Fire wrote:We ended up in the unfortunate position of knowing we couldn't beat LOW even if we drew on points, as they won the head-to-head, which made the remainder of our games somewhat stale and insignificant.

This is just coincidence. It could also happen the totally opposite scenario, if LOW have 3 points more, but TOFU won your match and TOFU has lower overall games/lost. In that case with this scenario you would still have chance and in scenario which you propose you would not have chance, so the argument that you lost hope before last round and that is why this system is bad does not stay.

I support head to head matches over overall score, that is how the most soccer leagues works anyways.

What you have said doesn't make any sense (or at least I cannot work out what you mean in your first paragraph). As for your second statement - well that's simply not true. The majority of football leagues work on Points followed by Goal Difference (thanks Keefie for posting that info).

It may be a moot point anyway if benga's not really interested in the rules regarding a points tie, but it is worth noting the following:

Team A finish with 45 points and a record of 185 wins and 7 losses
Team B finish with 45 points and a record of 105 wins and 87 losses

Under the current rules Team B could be the winner. I just don't think that's fair, not when it is a league and a whole season's results should be taken into consideration.

btw benga, I know I said it before, but your off-site table of Matches/Results/Standings was excellent and I'm sure would be a welcome continuation in the next edition of this tourney.

>>based on results in RL top 10 teams have a secured place while the last 4 dropped and cannot compete in next RL while 4 brand new clans enter, that way all clans would be fighting hard even at later stages.<<
this its best option. first then will get invitations, and if someone from this 10 decline, then you add new clan .

chariot of fire
What you have said doesn't make any sense (or at least I cannot work out what you mean in your first paragraph). As for your second statement - well that's simply not true. The majority of football leagues work on Points followed by Goal Difference (thanks Keefie for posting that info).

It may be a moot point anyway if benga's not really interested in the rules regarding a points tie, but it is worth noting the following:

Team A finish with 45 points and a record of 185 wins and 7 losses
Team B finish with 45 points and a record of 105 wins and 87 losses

Under the current rules Team B could be the winner. I just don't think that's fair, not when it is a league and a whole season's results should be taken into consideration.

btw benga, I know I said it before, but your off-site table of Matches/Results/Standings was excellent and I'm sure would be a welcome continuation in the next edition of this tourney.

I must say that benga are right here> rules are build before start of league, and everybody agree when they join.
Its can not change rules now in last round, because will be ruined Tournament integrity .
In next RL, better study rules and make suggestions, how to improve some rules, if you think are not good.

If rules are for the start of the league then it's a bit disappointing to hear you support the idea of only the top 10 being invited to the next RL Surely that should have been announced at the start of the competition.

Keefie wrote:If rules are for the start of the league then it's a bit disappointing to hear you support the idea of only the top 10 being invited to the next RL Surely that should have been announced at the start of the competition.

no, you misunderstand what i say, i support benga idea, that next Random League have 14 clans, and that first 10 from RL3 get promoted directly, and that last 4 spots, be filled with new clans who dont play in RL3.

This its not written in rules, its just benga idea, probably because RL with 17 clans are to much long for organized.