VioIet wrote:I think the most honorable thing to do is stay in the competition, even if you have to play badly. RA does it all the time. Clan League was absolutely disastrous for us last year as we lost several players without warning, due to a variety of reasons. Over 1/3 of the clan left to form a new clan without any warning, and we had to pick up the pieces within just a few months to play Clan League. Then after that, we had more player issues. Our level of play went from pretty darn good (for us) to downright terrible. We had to accept random invites, deal with missed turns and all sorts of things. But we stayed in it and tried our best.
Even this year, we have our hands full with NCC, CC4 and Clan League. We only have 16 active and about half of those receive the brunt of the invites. It is tough, but we won't withdraw after it starts, if we've already signed up.
Of course no one cares, but still. It's the principal.
Great said Violet, and you aimed it exact in point. Many clans (including KORT) have problems from time to time with some players' inactivities, but all clans always manage with that and at least finish what they started even if their playing level wil be lower because of absences. However, TOFU (as usual) have to be special case, principles which are valid for rest of clan world for them are (surprisingly) not valid.
Master Fenrir wrote:Josko, can you please stop with the blanket statements? It's unfair and dishonorable. You keep saying that TOFU is the most troublesome clan, therein labeling every member within the clan as such. Couldn't similar exaggerated statements be made about Kort? You were warned for account sitting abuse along with Moon and Rodion, if I remember correctly (I know you believe that was unfair. I'm not saying you're a sitting abuser, I'm making the factual statement that you were warned for it).
MF, I do not see problems in telling truth. If I tell lie or you disagree with me, you are free to put counterargument. If I say for example "2. The biggest sitting abuse ever where the whole clan participated actively or passively, because it was proven in the case that CoF was bragging in TOFU forum how he is playing alone vs the whole AFOS Hive team, so others knew very well for his systematic abusing system. " you can correct me and defend yourself if I told lie. However, If I told truth, I do not see problems in that.
So here I will defend myself for some points you told about KORT...
True, I was warned. I believe unfair, but I accepted it, they warned me, and I did not repeat the same wrongdoings. That is purpose of warning, no? To learn from the mistake and to not repeat it. And what TOFU did? At first, they were being so loud in seeking punishment for me, after which they were being punished for the same wrongdoings. Like this is not enough, they continued to do the same sitting abuse, following by second infraction. Obviously, they did not learn from first warning. I say TOFU instead of CoF because CoF was bragging about his sitting abuse practices in TOFU forum and making open agreement with several TOFU members about organizing those sitting abuse, so others were also active or passive involved in the abuse by being aware it is happening and not trying to stop it.
Some examples to prove that copied from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174462
2012-06-13 13:28:18 - sonicsteve [team]: Anyway, I'll leave you to take the other hive (sonicsteve)
2012-06-13 13:28:57 - sonicsteve [team]: ok mate, will cover the other. cya (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-13 23:54:00 - Chuuuuck [team]: pete - wanna just wall me (CoF) when u are online and I'll cover this nonsense. Cheers (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-14 11:15:45 - Pedronicus [team]: right
2012-06-15 05:05:25 - sonicsteve [team]: Cof, wanna cover another dose of nonsense?
2012-06-15 07:11:45 - Chuuuuck [team]: lol, ok (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-15 07:12:30 - Chuuuuck [team]: let me finish chuck, raketen, vixit & frutberg first (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-15 14:33:49 - sonicsteve [team]: Haha, you're covering for the whole clan now?
2012-06-16 10:01:50 - Chuuuuck [team]: yep (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-19 10:47:13 - sonicsteve [team]: Lol, am I taking this? (sonicsteve)
2012-06-20 05:08:50 - sonicsteve [team]: S15 to take those reds, work that area inc p14, some on b01 to break red at b02. (sonicsteve)
2012-06-20 05:10:01 - sonicsteve [team]: Why is green hogging 12 armies on k05 to defend a 1 bonus? (sonicsteve)
2012-06-20 05:15:55 - sonicsteve [team]: Got red down to 38 and broke his bonus. (sonicsteve)
2012-06-20 07:16:44 - Chuuuuck [team]: You are only taking it if you don't wall me to cover (CoF). I can't write "Are you on" on wals all day - it's driving me nuts (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-20 07:23:14 - Chuuuuck [team]: and don't get me wrong - while it's great that u saw we are targeting red - u really should have focused more on taking A01 off him and also have made a better fort, e.g P20 to R18, rather than fort away from red as u did. (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-20 07:24:46 - Chuuuuck [team]: I know you can play Hive very capably. Just I don't feel you can invest the time necessary to study what's going on in depth. Your time seems very fleeting nowadays (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-20 10:22:33 - sonicsteve [team]: Yes, it is all to fleeting, looked at the r18 fort, but decided it was selfish or could wait until chuck forts me from q20. B19 gives pedro a chance to hit some red... (sonicsteve)
2012-06-20 10:23:58 - sonicsteve [team]: I'm not surprised you're going nuts writing on walls all day, maybe we should get a graffiti artist into the clan... (sonicsteve)
2012-06-20 10:24:28 - sonicsteve [team]: Joking aside, I'm amazed how much covering you do already. (sonicsteve)
2012-07-06 03:08:41 - Pedronicus [team]: This 9:30am to 10:00 poker account switch is working like a charm. For anyone to see me with a hong kong flag they only have a window of a minute or two! (Pedronicus)
2012-07-06 03:10:14 - Pedronicus [team]: yeah i know (Chariot of Fire)
2012-07-06 03:10:30 - Pedronicus [team]: great that u r so reliable (Chariot of Fire)
...2012-05-28 22:39:21 - Iron Maid [team]: we cannot risk against Josko to play under another flag
2012-05-28 22:56:44 - Chariot of Fire [team]: agree. there are 2 ways. 1. Write it all out for Barry (I thought Chuck was handling this game) or 2. Let me log in and you change the flag back again
2012-05-22 09:32:49 - Chuuuuck [team]: i am a fan of the entire fort i think... those troops end up in koygoo on my turn, if we can afford to have hatch sit on coahuiltee then i can send them to him
2012-05-22 09:33:04 - Chuuuuck [team]: and he can sent there this entire turn since blue doesn't have the bonus left and we have troops on seminole area still
2012-05-22 09:44:10 - Chuuuuck [team]: CoF looking in (hi Chuck!). Took the opportunity while covering elsewhere. (Chariot of Fire)
2012-05-19 16:17:08 - Chariot of Fire [team]: I might just have to catch this for u mate.
2012-05-19 17:22:08 - nippersean [team]: It's fine by me if you want to take it Si
2012-05-12 23:53:50 - Chuuuuck [team]: chuck here, i can probably get in the car to head home 2 hours before this expires... should b e able to get it then
2012-05-13 00:21:03 - Chariot of Fire [team]: I can cover it for u. I think I'd rather tbh, just to be on the safe side
2012-05-18 09:37:24 - Chariot of Fire [team]: I'll get this one for u Steve
2012-05-18 11:21:45 - sonicsteve [team]: Cheers Si.
2012-05-19 02:50:03 - sonicsteve [team]: I'll come online in two hours, just in case
2012-05-19 04:10:21 - sonicsteve [team]: I'm here mate (Chariot of Fire)
2012-05-19 04:40:46 - sonicsteve [team]: Thanks Si.
2012-05-20 09:37:36 - Chariot of Fire [team]: i'll look at this tomorrow pete and maybe catch it for u
2012-05-20 15:50:41 - Pedronicus [team]: ok
2012-06-02 07:22:39 - Chariot of Fire [team]: i'll catch this for u pete. just wall me when u are on
2012-06-02 10:12:37 - Chariot of Fire [team]: going to bed soon mate - have to be tomorrow
2012-06-02 14:01:24 - Pedronicus [team]: ok mate
2012-06-08 22:23:09 - Chariot of Fire [team]: We need to be online together here Steve.
2012-06-09 05:11:52 - sonicsteve [team]: Could be tricky, wife is going out, but will 7.5 hours from now, and 7.25 hours on clock...
2012-06-09 05:12:20 - sonicsteve [team]: Need to do stuff with the kids...
2012-06-09 06:12:47 - Chariot of Fire [team]: I'll get it for you
2012-06-23 00:29:47 - Chariot of Fire [team]: pete...just say the word mate and I'll cover
2012-06-23 06:32:19 - Pedronicus [team]: Peter is back on a uk flag (sonicsteve)
2012-06-23 06:32:47 - Pedronicus [team]: Auto type made him Peter, not Pete. Sonic here. (sonicsteve)
2012-06-30 13:18:27 - Pedronicus [team]: I've got to admit, I'm just taking this turn pissed out of my face, killing the oppo, with no plan as to anything else/ sorry
2012-06-30 13:32:13 - Chariot of Fire [team]: well fuckin don't!
2012-06-30 13:32:55 - Chariot of Fire [team]: I've stayed up till 3.30am waiting for you to wall me. I even wrote on your wall to "Wall me when on"
2012-06-30 13:34:29 - Chariot of Fire [team]: f'in joke. Grey has a double deploy and u hit just 1 of his terrs. There was so much more to do (O-11 cell)
2012-06-30 18:13:26 - Pedronicus [team]: i thoght you'd be asleep
Together with some quotes from TOFU forum revealed in that thread:
Chariot of Fire wrote:OK Charlie, no worries. Hope things get sorted for you and your folks. Please just don't post anything in any public forums while you are being covered or people will say you are capable of playing your own turns (unless of course it is an absence notice you are posting). Cheers
Chariot of Fire wrote:haha, yeah I am, but then I'm doing so well against that Kaskavel trips team playing for you, Chuck & Steve that I'm starting to enjoy it. A bit like Conquerman, there's a perfect logic and symmetry to a lot of it.
Like this was not enough, After all this it followed false accusing of myself for doing account itting abuse again. I know it is hard for TOFU to accept that their sitting practices were revealed and punished twice, so they need to present us doing the same like them but fortunately this moderators defended us from false accusations.
Master Fenrir wrote:You admitted GLG into your clan who was a known farmer who continued to farm. Is KORT then a clan full of troublemakers, sitting abusers, and farmers? Or were those just the actions of a few for which the rest of the clan should not be held accountable?
We saw that GLG is very skilled player, and we accepted him into KORT after he had reached conqueror rank after years on second or third place. Now, when he achieved his goal of being conqueror, we hoped he will stop doing his farming and become valuable member of CC. Also, I was the one who refused to play any new games with him after I realized he is not going to change his farming practices. I knew he liked to play with me so I hoped he will change his attitude and become noteworthy member of CC. That is reason why then he played home maps on maps that every time I played before, like 11798710
. In addition, KORT was already "punished" for accepting him because when he was banned from the site, we almost lost already won hive game that he was in, and the whole war vs OSA because of that. In clan world he anyway could not farm, so his past farming actions has nothing to do with clan games, and besides his farming past he did not have other infractions. Also, when he entered KORT he had zero official infractions, and every his later infractions were not related to clan world but were to 1v1 games, and now compare it with CoF who has already 2 infractions for the same abuse, just second time in much bigger level, and his infractions have a lot to do with clan world. And you are accusing us for accepting GLG? very funny, better look at your backyard before pointing fingers to us.
Master Fenrir wrote:You're seeking a broad punishment of an entire clan for actions/decisions that they might not have anything to do with. You're suggesting that the remaining TOFU players who are not retiring, taking a break, or going on vacation and are simply left without the real life time and CC firepower to handle both clan events be punished. TOFU members have also indicated that the clan will be looking to recruit new members to fill this void. Those new players who have nothing to do with this should then be held to the same punishment and prevented from playing in CC clan events because of this, something they had nothing to do with?
If clan is unable to play in competitions, then remove them from competitions, so simple. You clearly stated you are not able to compete in CL5, so how we can know you will not do the same withdraw in CC4 later and again screw the same tournament? I ask it only for CC4 because in RL you are already influenced too much and your withdrawing from there would cause result unfairness, but in CC4 you still did not start competition so withdrawing from that competition is better now than risk your possible withdrawing in later rounds and screwing the whole tournament. CL5 and CC4 are ongoing at the same time. If you cannot commit to play in CL5, how we can be sure you will commit to play in CC4? Since this is your second withdrawing and first withdrawing EVER in clan world which has reason about not enough players (in opposite to previous reasons which were turn off the clan), I think clan world should not risk screwing another competition format in midway by your clan. Should you regroup for CC5 and/or CL6, you should be allowed to in, because in future maybe you regroup, but if you withdraw from ongoing competition, then it is better withdraw from another ongoing competition than risk you withdraw in later stage.
Master Fenrir wrote:I don't see how that's fair, but it seems to be a pattern of behavior. When jcarter1 mentioned that the C-man game was dragging in the game chat, it seemed to me that you intentionally dragged it our further. I think after that, you waited your turn down to about 20 minutes left before moving. What struck me as odd about that was that JC wasn't even in that game, but you seemed to be punishing those who were.
Great, now I am also guilty to play my turns in late minutes. I can do with my time whatever I wish. No turn was missed by myself, which would be dragging if that happened, especially if there is pattern in that happening. Playing in last minutes is not dragging, it is my legal right, I can manage my time however I wish.
As a conclusion, I am comparing TOFU involvement in CC4 and CL5:
CC4: As for now, the only their involvement is taking first seed in draw, as they did not play any game yet.
CL5: As for now, their involvement is both taking seed in draw, AND eliminating someone. Premier League has 11 clans instead of 12 which would have if TOFU did not screw the format.
So, If TOFU has time for playing in one of those 2 competitions but not in both, then CL5 is more logical choice because there their involvement in this moment is much deeper than in CC4. The reason that they decided to move out from competition where they already eliminated someone and continue in competition which they did not even start yet, shows enough about how reliable they are. I think we should not allow one clan, which in addition has troublemaking history described in previous posts, to make jokes about major clan tournaments, and risk their withdrawing from CC4 as well. Better eliminate them now, than risk they screw up the whole tournament in later stage.