Conquer Club

patrickaa317 wrote:

greenoaks wrote:we have heard from blake that this is a no-go. far too many other things for the limited resources available.

You are really set on the limited resources argument, (which again I understand) but that is the reason for the submitted suggestions backlog so it can be reviewed in the future when those limited resources catch up on other suggestions and become not so limited.

i gave my reason at the beginning of the thread, NS gave his & blake gave his of 'limited resources'. we each have a different primary reason for rejecting this.

greenoaks wrote:

patrickaa317 wrote:

greenoaks wrote:we have heard from blake that this is a no-go. far too many other things for the limited resources available.

You are really set on the limited resources argument, (which again I understand) but that is the reason for the submitted suggestions backlog so it can be reviewed in the future when those limited resources catch up on other suggestions and become not so limited.

i gave my reason at the beginning of the thread, NS gave his & blake gave his of 'limited resources'. we each have a different primary reason for rejecting this.

Fair enough, I'll stop, still disagree with the reasons/quick decisioning on this compared to all other suggestions but I see this is going nowhere.

Night Strike wrote:
Only a few people could build a proper spreadsheet that could be parsed by the site to create all the correct games. Even if it could be used in every tournament, that doesn't mean the organizer could make it work.

Give requirements for a csv file.

Require headers like: Game Name, Player name, map name, fog, spoils, etc.

Or better yet, create a template for them to fill out that has all required columns listed.

GeneralJestix wrote:

Night Strike wrote:
Only a few people could build a proper spreadsheet that could be parsed by the site to create all the correct games. Even if it could be used in every tournament, that doesn't mean the organizer could make it work.

Give requirements for a csv file.

Require headers like: Game Name, Player name, map name, fog, spoils, etc.

Or better yet, create a template for them to fill out that has all required columns listed.

That would neglect the benefit that people are wanting this suggestion to achieve because the only way to properly use that spreadsheet would be off a set template.

GeneralJestix wrote:

Night Strike wrote:
Only a few people could build a proper spreadsheet that could be parsed by the site to create all the correct games. Even if it could be used in every tournament, that doesn't mean the organizer could make it work.

Give requirements for a csv file.

Require headers like: Game Name, Player name, map name, fog, spoils, etc.

Or better yet, create a template for them to fill out that has all required columns listed.

I'm having a hard time visualizing a spreadsheet template general enough to account for the variety of tournaments that people host; is anyone willing to work up a simple example?

The "template" as it were is quite easy as the parameters for game creating are EXACTLY the same. The required fields are the same no matter what.

The complexity (to the degree that there is any) comes from the formulas that will fill that data. You need to write formulas that pull data from one sheet based on (say) "Screenname" which will then know what map to select, what spoils setting to select.

If you look at the "Sched" tab for this sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtVtXGQIZiUddHlza1hEYmtiOFdJbmstOGFhcFNncEE#gid=1

You can see that after you enter the team name for columns B and C, the rest of the columns are filled with data (the little icons next to the team name in columns D & E show bonuses earned during the regular season -- that info is pulled from the "List of Players Teams" tab. The map info also pulled from that tab.

Where the "template" would be really useful would be in CC supplying a spreadsheet that had all of the map names etc. EXACTLY as the game engine required (or a map code number to further reduce syntax errors).

I really do not think this is that hard of a project. I am guessing 16 hours of developer time. Of course ... those 16 hours are stolen from other projects.

I 100% agree that only certain TO's would be allowed to use it. I am also certain that the kinds of tournaments those TOs would put together would be really great.

Robes__

Robespierre__ wrote:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtVtXGQIZiUddHlza1hEYmtiOFdJbmstOGFhcFNncEE#gid=1

Can you make this a public doc?

Done .... apologies.

Night Strike wrote:That would neglect the benefit that people are wanting this suggestion to achieve because the only way to properly use that spreadsheet would be off a set template.

We already use a restrictive template, it's just not in .csv format.

Robespierre__ wrote:Done .... apologies.

I see your spreadsheet but think it should be a lot more streamlined/simplified. I can throw one together later; and even have parameters around functions around certain values to ensure appropriate data is inserted in them.

I am not following what you are saying but will await your example. What I have done is use VLOOKUP to pull data based on the value of Column B or Column C. If we were supplied a spreadsheet by CC containing player screennames or #'s/map names or #'s / and then the text or number that they want for all the other settings (spoils, fortification settings, game type, etc), then all that would be pulled formulaically and be really easy.

I guess I was just looking more at your spreadsheet. Columns A-E are irrelevant. You'd need to add the following:

- number of players
- GameType
- Initial Troops
- Play Order
- Fog & Trench in separate columns.
- Round Limit
- Round Length
- Some indicator on the tourney associated and password
- Plus if you are looking at really using an import function, you'd want to have all the player names listed.

I'm stating the obvious here but want to point out that your spreadsheet as it stands would need to be mocked up in a completely different way.

Yeah, I think Robe's post was just meant to show that data can be pulled, which is also sort of stating the obvious.

What I was picturing (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you'd have a sheet that has the "game information" that will be uploaded to the site. This would be pulled from other spreadsheets, saved as a csv and uploaded. So, the csv would end up looking something like this:

4,agentcom,patrickaa317,robespierre__,greanoaks,S,Classic,A,S,E,C,F,N,20,pw

Basically,

[#players],[player1],[player2],...,[playern],[gametype],[map name or code],[deploy],[turnorder],[spoils],[forts],[fog],[trench],[roundlimit],[password]

Something like that. The gametype and player names are different enough that the player names could be parsed first to ensure there's N players for an N-player game. The map code idea is a good one just requires a separate Vlookup on a table published by CC. All the variables are distinct enough that you can make them unique (I know because I've done this for spreadsheets that I work on and MapRank and the Game Search already do it, too).

Is that the right idea Robes?

If so, the spreadsheets themselves would be fairly easy to design, IMO.

That is precisely what I had in mind. It would be easy to manage a universal template.

I would like to throw out an example of something that we could do given an engine that there is no way on God's Green Earth I would think about doing otherwise.

Clan Baseball.

Each clan puts out 9 players and each plays one singles game for every scheduled game (so you would play 162 singles games over the course of the season). You could have division winners and wild card teams and have a playoff in the end leading to the world series. Perhaps we don't have enough clans to do American and National League, so we just do 16 clans. After a spreadsheet is properly set up, all the TO would have to do is manage the rosters as people go in and out of the 9-person team. All the game creation would be 100% automatic and take 5 minutes tops. If invites are automatically sent, then all missed invites are counted as losses. Tallying results would definitely take some time, but it would not be *that* bad so long as the job were shared amongst 2-3 volunteers. I think 4 people could run this league and no one of them would feel like you hijacked their lives.

This is just one stupid idea showing the kinds of tournaments that you could create which build community that I think would be a real addition to CC.

But I think if I can't convince Blake, Green Oaks, Night Strike, etal, then either (a) they are predisposed to hating my ideas, (b) this idea is not as good as others floating around, or (c) it just is not that good an idea. I doubt it is (a) so that would leave (b) or (c). I am being persistent because I really believe in what I am proposing here.

Robes

agentcom wrote:Yeah, I think Robe's post was just meant to show that data can be pulled, which is also sort of stating the obvious.

What I was picturing (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you'd have a sheet that has the "game information" that will be uploaded to the site. This would be pulled from other spreadsheets, saved as a csv and uploaded. So, the csv would end up looking something like this:

4,agentcom,patrickaa317,robespierre__,greanoaks,S,Classic,A,S,E,C,F,N,20,pw

Basically,

[#players],[player1],[player2],...,[playern],[gametype],[map name or code],[deploy],[turnorder],[spoils],[forts],[fog],[trench],[roundlimit],[password]

Something like that. The gametype and player names are different enough that the player names could be parsed first to ensure there's N players for an N-player game. The map code idea is a good one just requires a separate Vlookup on a table published by CC. All the variables are distinct enough that you can make them unique (I know because I've done this for spreadsheets that I work on and MapRank and the Game Search already do it, too).

Is that the right idea Robes?

If so, the spreadsheets themselves would be fairly easy to design, IMO.

Love it, except I might suggest putting the players at the very end given they are the only one that can vary in number. You would want to to ensure that there is >= N players for N-Player game; I don't think you'd want to force all to be invited at once. It might be a situation where i want to create the game now, just not send 100% of the invites in case it is dependent on another result.

Robespierre__ wrote: I am being persistent because I really believe in what I am proposing here.

Completely agree here. I'm mostly quite disappointed this was rejected so fast, especially for a vague reason of 'not enough resources'. If it's something that is beyond the ability of the dev team, then that's fine, just own it. If it truly is the case of not enough resources, let's throw out at least half of the things sitting in the submitted box now. IMO, this would be way easier and quicker than GameLog 2.0, Unlimited Adjacent forts, etc. Plus would have more benefits for TO's to run tournaments like the Clan Baseball league like you suggested which WILL ATTRACT MORE MEMBERS.

patrickaa317 wrote:Love it, except I might suggest putting the players at the very end given they are the only one that can vary in number. You would want to to ensure that there is >= N players for N-Player game; I don't think you'd want to force all to be invited at once. It might be a situation where i want to create the game now, just not send 100% of the invites in case it is dependent on another result.

The beauty of this kind of format is that none of the games are dependent on any of the others so they can just keep flowing out from the TOs. Only once you reach the playoffs will it have dependent games.

Robes

Robespierre__ wrote:

patrickaa317 wrote:Love it, except I might suggest putting the players at the very end given they are the only one that can vary in number. You would want to to ensure that there is >= N players for N-Player game; I don't think you'd want to force all to be invited at once. It might be a situation where i want to create the game now, just not send 100% of the invites in case it is dependent on another result.

The beauty of this kind of format is that none of the games are dependent on any of the others so they can just keep flowing out from the TOs. Only once you reach the playoffs will it have dependent games.

Robes

I was referencing more the format of the CSV than your Clan Baseball tournament, though I do think that'd be a fun tourney to play in.

I see what you are saying now. It would be great if you could leave the invite field empty and therefore extend no invites. But if we had to wait to start games only when there are active participants awaiting, I could live with that.

Robespierre__ wrote:I see what you are saying now. It would be great if you could leave the invite field empty and therefore extend no invites. But if we had to wait to start games only when there are active participants awaiting, I could live with that.

Completely agree with that.

This would also be great for clan wars where clans use a bunch of the same map/settings for each war.

Mentioning here that I will probably not be doing the NCAA tournament again as a result of burnout from last year (75%) and what I perceive to be something between disrespect and lack of empathy for what one endures when attempting to run a large tournament like that (25%). I notate it this way because if I saw light at the end of the tunnel, I probably would have sucked it up and did it again.

Sorry to hear that. That's a loss to the community for sure.

I have had a chat with the OP, and a copy of this will be in third party enhancements suggestions, in hopes that a kind, willing person will take on the task of creating this.

JamesKer1 wrote:I have had a chat with the OP, and a copy of this will be in third party enhancements suggestions, in hopes that a kind, willing person will take on the task of creating this.

Is a third party app for game creation going to be allowed by the site? Will there be any checks/balances in place?

patrickaa317 wrote:

JamesKer1 wrote:I have had a chat with the OP, and a copy of this will be in third party enhancements suggestions, in hopes that a kind, willing person will take on the task of creating this.

Is a third party app for game creation going to be allowed by the site? Will there be any checks/balances in place?

The original idea was brought up by someone who has been here way longer than me, so I would assume so. Not sure what you mean by checks/balances, I know pretty much nothing about coding and stuff. Hoping to learn some this summer.