Strongest Overall Player on CC?

[grifftron]

Even though I really like AON.. And I WILL give him an honorable mention because he deserves it, I am going to have to go with KLOBBER as strongest overall play on CC.



He could rip players apart on Circus Maximus like I never seen in my life, and I am sure he had other favorites too... no one will ever compare to his greatness!

Game 2976551

-griff

You're trying to be funny I take it?

Why the hell would I joke about King KLOBBER?!

[Chariot of Fire]

Interesting debate, along with some of the comments made thus far (great post by lc btw, worth wading through all the pages to get to). I may as well throw in my two cents' worth.

Firstly the definition, 'strongest overall player'. It doesn't say 'strongest all-round player' in which case freestyle must be given fair consideration (which would rule out a vast number of players mentioned so far). 'Overall' is a contraction of 'over all', i.e. over all others. I don't think there has ever been one player who has been dominant in all the different styles - they either specialise in one genre (historically freestylers) or they are restricted to another (sequential players who lack the tools & connection to play freestyle). All games takes skill, of that there is no question. Where the requirement for skill diminishes is in games where dice play an overriding factor (1v1s, small maps) or a player has a distinct advantage (despite my love of freestyle I won't play them anymore as the CC server is on the other side of the world and I use a PC that has traces of dinosaur poo on it, it's that old). By the time I get to click on 'Start Turn' half a dozen territories have already vanished. So to try and create a level playing field where we can consider all members of CC it's really only feasible to look at sequential games and pick names who have excelled at that genre.

And how to pick someone? A player's rank, as has been mentioned, is probably immaterial. The average rank of a player's opponents however is not, so that should be considered.

It would be a very exhaustive exercise, but if I had to research into who stood out as being a very accomplished player I would look at the following:

- Does the player hand-pick his opponents? Bonus points for those who never do
- What percentage of a player's games are on his terms, i.e. home map & settings? Lose points if this is the case
- What volume of a player's games are in tournaments or challenges where he is playing on maps & settings not chosen by him? Bonus points for these guys
- What is a player's tournament record like? 100 medals means diddly-squat if that player has entered 1,000 tourneys. There are players on here who have a 40%+ record of winning, being runner-up, or being ahead in tourneys that were completed or abandoned. Big bonus points for such players.
- Does the player cover a broad spectrum of maps, i.e. accomplished play and strategy on any map, nothing fazes him? More bonus points
- Has the player got a good overall record against the other players listed as being 'the best', i.e. has he held his own against stiff opposition?

There are probably more factors - I just listed the ones I could think of off the top of my head. Anyway, as I mentioned it would be an exhaustive process, but crunching the numbers with the factors listed above would probably be a start in the right direction.

LC made a poignant remark re time. Time was a luxury I had plenty of (alas no more) which is why I usually favoured the long drawn-out quad games on large complex maps (think WW2 Ardennes, Waterloo Stalingrad, Conquer Rome and maps of that ilk). And the larger the map and the bigger the team the less the luck of the dice factor in, which appealed to me. So my friend was time (and freakns of course) because the allusion to chess is not far off the mark. I could easily spend 30 minutes planning a move as I'm working out where I want the team to be in eight moves' time - and I do that for every turn, whether mine or not.

So whilst speed favours the freestyler, I'd have to say time favours the leisurely sequentialist. And that is where games are won and percentages are increased, for we each seem to have rolled an uncanny average of 3.51 if you look at the dice stats.

[rhp 1]

Interesting debate, along with some of the comments made thus far (great post by lc btw, worth wading through all the pages to get to). I may as well throw in my two cents' worth.

Firstly the definition, 'strongest overall player'. It doesn't say 'strongest all-round player' in which case freestyle must be given fair consideration (which would rule out a vast number of players mentioned so far). 'Overall' is a contraction of 'over all', i.e. over all others. I don't think there has ever been one player who has been dominant in all the different styles - they either specialise in one genre (historically freestylers) or they are restricted to another (sequential players who lack the tools & connection to play freestyle). All games takes skill, of that there is no question. Where the requirement for skill diminishes is in games where dice play an overriding factor (1v1s, small maps) or a player has a distinct advantage (despite my love of freestyle I won't play them anymore as the CC server is on the other side of the world and I use a PC that has traces of dinosaur poo on it, it's that old). By the time I get to click on 'Start Turn' half a dozen territories have already vanished. So to try and create a level playing field where we can consider all members of CC it's really only feasible to look at sequential games and pick names who have excelled at that genre.

And how to pick someone? A player's rank, as has been mentioned, is probably immaterial. The average rank of a player's opponents however is not, so that should be considered.

It would be a very exhaustive exercise, but if I had to research into who stood out as being a very accomplished player I would look at the following:

- Does the player hand-pick his opponents? Bonus points for those who never do
- What percentage of a player's games are on his terms, i.e. home map & settings? Lose points if this is the case
- What volume of a player's games are in tournaments or challenges where he is playing on maps & settings not chosen by him? Bonus points for these guys
- What is a player's tournament record like? 100 medals means diddly-squat if that player has entered 1,000 tourneys. There are players on here who have a 40%+ record of winning, being runner-up, or being ahead in tourneys that were completed or abandoned. Big bonus points for such players.
- Does the player cover a broad spectrum of maps, i.e. accomplished play and strategy on any map, nothing fazes him? More bonus points
- Has the player got a good overall record against the other players listed as being 'the best', i.e. has he held his own against stiff opposition?

There are probably more factors - I just listed the ones I could think of off the top of my head. Anyway, as I mentioned it would be an exhaustive process, but crunching the numbers with the factors listed above would probably be a start in the right direction.

LC made a poignant remark re time. Time was a luxury I had plenty of (alas no more) which is why I usually favoured the long drawn-out quad games on large complex maps (think WW2 Ardennes, Waterloo Stalingrad, Conquer Rome and maps of that ilk). And the larger the map and the bigger the team the less the luck of the dice factor in, which appealed to me. So my friend was time (and freakns of course) because the allusion to chess is not far off the mark. I could easily spend 30 minutes planning a move as I'm working out where I want the team to be in eight moves' time - and I do that for every turn, whether mine or not.

So whilst speed favours the freestyler, I'd have to say time favours the leisurely sequentialist. And that is where games are won and percentages are increased, for we each seem to have rolled an uncanny average of 3.51 if you look at the dice stats.

extremely well written and incredibly thorough...

though I would still disagree (though not very strongly) that you simply have to include fs play (speed fs more specifically) as it is setting that is played often (someone threw out a 5% of total games #, so that's fine by me as that is still a huge number of games) in a discussion of "overall best player" contractions not withstanding... I say this knowing the player who started this thread and that he would have wanted fs taken into consideration... arguments against fs usually hinge on connection, computer, speed, etc etc etc and only tell a fractional part of the story... while I don't dispute that speed is an important aspect in that discussion, and while I would grant that connection speed in other countries blow, my retort would be.. sorry? there are many analogies I could make that would argue against simply throwing out a particular thing because someone doesn't have the tools... well.. when you get the tools (theoretically) someday, then show me what you've got, and we'll talk... because the fact is, that simply because you are the best (or one of the best) at seq, does not mean that you can play fs regardless of your connection or computer.... as a matter of fact, I would argue the opposite... I think many accomplished seq players would have a hard time with the pace of freestyle and the comprehensive yet incredibly fast thought processes and reaction times needed to excel at this setting....if and when these top seq players show they can excel @ both settings, then and only then IMO, can they then be given consideration for best overall player... which is why players such as Killface, Great-Ollie, and KraphtOne come so readily to mind.... these players?

high skill level and accomplished @ at sequential-----check
high skill level and accomplished @ freestyle----- check
playing top competition-----check
not controlling who they play----- check
medals up the ass-------check...
@ any time, able to cruise to the top of the leader board if given the inclination----- check
solid in 1 v 1, 1 v whatever # of players, dubs, trips, and quads----------check
play for fun and play any map/settings while maintaining a high score-------check

[loutil]

Interesting debate, along with some of the comments made thus far (great post by lc btw, worth wading through all the pages to get to). I may as well throw in my two cents' worth.

Firstly the definition, 'strongest overall player'. It doesn't say 'strongest all-round player' in which case freestyle must be given fair consideration (which would rule out a vast number of players mentioned so far). 'Overall' is a contraction of 'over all', i.e. over all others. I don't think there has ever been one player who has been dominant in all the different styles - they either specialise in one genre (historically freestylers) or they are restricted to another (sequential players who lack the tools & connection to play freestyle). All games takes skill, of that there is no question. Where the requirement for skill diminishes is in games where dice play an overriding factor (1v1s, small maps) or a player has a distinct advantage (despite my love of freestyle I won't play them anymore as the CC server is on the other side of the world and I use a PC that has traces of dinosaur poo on it, it's that old). By the time I get to click on 'Start Turn' half a dozen territories have already vanished. So to try and create a level playing field where we can consider all members of CC it's really only feasible to look at sequential games and pick names who have excelled at that genre.

And how to pick someone? A player's rank, as has been mentioned, is probably immaterial. The average rank of a player's opponents however is not, so that should be considered.

It would be a very exhaustive exercise, but if I had to research into who stood out as being a very accomplished player I would look at the following:

- Does the player hand-pick his opponents? Bonus points for those who never do
- What percentage of a player's games are on his terms, i.e. home map & settings? Lose points if this is the case
- What volume of a player's games are in tournaments or challenges where he is playing on maps & settings not chosen by him? Bonus points for these guys
- What is a player's tournament record like? 100 medals means diddly-squat if that player has entered 1,000 tourneys. There are players on here who have a 40%+ record of winning, being runner-up, or being ahead in tourneys that were completed or abandoned. Big bonus points for such players.
- Does the player cover a broad spectrum of maps, i.e. accomplished play and strategy on any map, nothing fazes him? More bonus points
- Has the player got a good overall record against the other players listed as being 'the best', i.e. has he held his own against stiff opposition?

There are probably more factors - I just listed the ones I could think of off the top of my head. Anyway, as I mentioned it would be an exhaustive process, but crunching the numbers with the factors listed above would probably be a start in the right direction.

LC made a poignant remark re time. Time was a luxury I had plenty of (alas no more) which is why I usually favoured the long drawn-out quad games on large complex maps (think WW2 Ardennes, Waterloo Stalingrad, Conquer Rome and maps of that ilk). And the larger the map and the bigger the team the less the luck of the dice factor in, which appealed to me. So my friend was time (and freakns of course) because the allusion to chess is not far off the mark. I could easily spend 30 minutes planning a move as I'm working out where I want the team to be in eight moves' time - and I do that for every turn, whether mine or not.

So whilst speed favours the freestyler, I'd have to say time favours the leisurely sequentialist. And that is where games are won and percentages are increased, for we each seem to have rolled an uncanny average of 3.51 if you look at the dice stats.

You included everything but your opinion on who is the best....

[Chariot of Fire]

You included everything but your opinion on who is the best....

Yes, due to time constraints (as explained). It would take me far too long to do a thorough study of the factors I listed. It takes me a day to do the Coaches' Poll to list clans from 1-20 (in fact last time I only had time to list 1-10 and left out 11-20 as I'm not prepared to just guess) as I'll look through their recent challenges and tournaments (e.g. CL5) and then also look at all their members and factor in transfers and potential. Now imagine taking that scenario and multiplying it by 20, which would probably be a fair estimate if one had to check the backgrounds of all the contenders to make a decent assessment. I'm not really prepared to do that (anymore), hence why I've no opinion on who is the best.

>rhp1....good reply, thanks. I don't dispute freestyle takes a special skill set which is why I gave it the nod it deserves. It requires speed of thought and action, not just a fast connection, and the best exponents of freestyle are surely very gifted players. I only discounted it from the overall category as it precludes so many players who are at a disadvantage. I would hazard a guess that the most successful freestylers this site has seen are based in North America and have access to a PC virtually 24/7, i.e. at home and work. Location counts for a lot in freestyle games as such a vast number of players are in the USA. When I'm online for the most part, it's 10pm to 8am in N.America. Conversely when America is most active I'm usually asleep, so in an escalating freestyle game I've usually missed the opportunity to get an elimination, or be able to play two turns almost consecutively due to someone else in the game taking his turn. So speed games are a no-no due to connection times, and 24 hour freestyle games I feel disadvantaged due to location as for the most part my opponents would be from the States and not from other parts of Asia. So in conclusion I felt it was fairer just to consider the sequential results, as that's a genre that's open for all on a level playing field.

[rhp 1]

You included everything but your opinion on who is the best....

Yes, due to time constraints (as explained). It would take me far too long to do a thorough study of the factors I listed. It takes me a day to do the Coaches' Poll to list clans from 1-20 (in fact last time I only had time to list 1-10 and left out 11-20 as I'm not prepared to just guess) as I'll look through their recent challenges and tournaments (e.g. CL5) and then also look at all their members and factor in transfers and potential. Now imagine taking that scenario and multiplying it by 20, which would probably be a fair estimate if one had to check the backgrounds of all the contenders to make a decent assessment. I'm not really prepared to do that (anymore), hence why I've no opinion on who is the best.

>rhp1....good reply, thanks. I don't dispute freestyle takes a special skill set which is why I gave it the nod it deserves. It requires speed of thought and action, not just a fast connection, and the best exponents of freestyle are surely very gifted players. I only discounted it from the overall category as it precludes so many players who are at a disadvantage. I would hazard a guess that the most successful freestylers this site has seen are based in North America and have access to a PC virtually 24/7, i.e. at home and work. Location counts for a lot in freestyle games as such a vast number of players are in the USA. When I'm online for the most part, it's 10pm to 8am in N.America. Conversely when America is most active I'm usually asleep, so in an escalating freestyle game I've usually missed the opportunity to get an elimination, or be able to play two turns almost consecutively due to someone else in the game taking his turn. So speed games are a no-no due to connection times, and 24 hour freestyle games I feel disadvantaged due to location as for the most part my opponents would be from the States and not from other parts of Asia. So in conclusion I felt it was fairer just to consider the sequential results, as that's a genre that's open for all on a level playing field.

fair enough...

[Shannon Apple]

Even though I really like AON.. And I WILL give him an honorable mention because he deserves it, I am going to have to go with KLOBBER as strongest overall play on CC.



He could rip players apart on Circus Maximus like I never seen in my life, and I am sure he had other favorites too... no one will ever compare to his greatness!

Game 2976551

-griff

ROFLMAO! That's awesome!
What a potty mouth.

[KiIIface]

Killface


guy dominates on all maps and settings...

could easily be #1 with not a lot of effort if he really cared...

case closed....

Mc? lol... freestyle setting.... nough said

check the Subject line of the thread folks...



Honorable mention?

Great-Ollie

It seems that you have no idea of mc dominating in every map & setting possible to become conqueror for months, no farming watsoever included

It seems you have no idea how to read the subject line of a thread....

Strongest OVERALL player... so disregarding freestyle as some of you suggest? Start a different thread on best seq player... overall means ALL settings/maps/number of players/teams/solo...

Precisely why Killface is clearly there with Great-Ollie not far behind, and Herpes right on their heels...throw in Demonfork and Blitz if u care to...

This is a discussion so everyone has a right to an opinion even if you do not like it...
Many players would agree that freestyle does NOT belong in this conversation even if the word "overall" was in the original question. Mastering sequential games takes skill, tactics, and probability. Mastering freestyle seems more about being quick and willing to log in at all times of the day and night.

I should add: I have never played freestyle so my opinion may be off base...

No, you are completely correct. Glorifying 1vs1 speed freestyle/freestyle merchants is nothing more than a bad joke. Then attempting to claim such types have any real mastery of sequential (generally the record simply doesn't support it) because 'if you can play quickly then obviously you can play slowly' is the height of idiocy.

I mean let them prattle on about how many regions they can take in a second , but lets not pretend they are much more than frantic button-mashers.

So as I said, the strongest player will be a sequential one as freestyle records are effectively meaningless, as they are based on speed, farming and collusion and have shit all to do with actual strategic thought.

As a thought experiment, try to name one legit. freestyle conqueror. As in one who wasn't farming, or bending the rules, or playing ridiculous settings, or simply cheating. If you can then I would guess the chap might be able to play sequentially...

Sequential is hardly Overall. Not even close. Have you ever tried hive 1 minute? If all you do is button smash you will lose. Nothing you said is based on fact, so I will disregard your opinions completely as I am sure you will with mine. Also, If you say freestyle is meaningless then throw MC out of the run as he predominantly played one map and setting.

[KiIIface]

this hole speed freestyle discussion in a subject about overall best CC players is a joke. It mostly depends on connection, as optimal strategy is in any case known to the absolute best players. Then it's a matter of clicking faster to first inflict maximum damage, thus inserting the luck factor (will my click prevail in speed than yours). Even if I undestand the game's strategy better, what to do when I get by bonus attacked before I even move?
Speed fs is only for fun and should be totally left aside when discussing overall best play.
Overall best play can't exlude half the players because they dont live in America.
Europeans and in general non-Americans stand no chance in speed fs, and by that logic, have no entitlement for overall best players :O
Best strategy is measured in fair conditions for both sides.
In chess there is also the concept of the best player in the world, the world champion or no1 rated in FIDE rankings. There, fast chess (blitz & rapid) have seperate championships and the prestige of the winner of the world blitz champion is nothing compared to the normal world champion. Noone even knows who won the world blitz or world rapid championship. But even the rocks know who is the classical chess world champion.

you're silly

and you're a nerd for knowing so much about chess....

Hahaha

[KiIIface]

Killface


guy dominates on all maps and settings...

could easily be #1 with not a lot of effort if he really cared...

case closed....

Mc? lol... freestyle setting.... nough said

check the Subject line of the thread folks...



Honorable mention?

Great-Ollie

It seems that you have no idea of mc dominating in every map & setting possible to become conqueror for months, no farming watsoever included

It seems you have no idea how to read the subject line of a thread....

Strongest OVERALL player... so disregarding freestyle as some of you suggest? Start a different thread on best seq player... overall means ALL settings/maps/number of players/teams/solo...

Precisely why Killface is clearly there with Great-Ollie not far behind, and Herpes right on their heels...throw in Demonfork and Blitz if u care to...

mc is maybe the best freestyle player and one of the best sequential. The only thing he doesn't play is speed freestyle because of suboptimal connection. Speed is totally out of the equation, because it also severely depends on the connection, which is an external factor.

LOL @ "best freestyle player" hahahahahaha

why do you laugh at someone who surpassed 5000 and became conqueror playing mostly freestyle? you think you are the best? hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Mc is a solid player. He also figured out a way to win on his terms. Nothing wrong with that. His favorite setting was freestyle casual on an objective map. The first time I played his settings against him I won. Troop count and regions don't matter. Just objective and holding B. not very Impressive as far as overall skill is involved. Like rhp said it is great for farming and only farming. And no, I'm not bashing farming cuz I have done it on hive and All Your Base. That isn't what makes me a good player. That's just one aspect of skill and tactics; timing.

[rhp 1]

ok people...an elite player (how good is up for all of you to muddle about with) but nonetheless an objectively elite player saying that casual freestyle is a farming setting and little more.. moreover, he said he used it as such (not farming as far as against the rules, but we all know what we're talking about here) himself in the past... do we really have to continue to argue anymore about whether or not casual freestyle is farming? no? good... so let's just stop talking about it as a legitimate setting altogether... personally, I don't care if someone plays it, or for what reasons, but it's a joke.. so from now on, let's keep these debates restricted to sequential and speed freestyle as far as who's the best overall player... and I have no issue heavily weighting sequential in this question, so long as speed freestyle is a part (however small) of the equation regardless of the generally weak arguments (IMO) against this.

[loutil]

ok people...an elite player (how good is up for all of you to muddle about with) but nonetheless an objectively elite player saying that casual freestyle is a farming setting and little more.. moreover, he said he used it as such (not farming as far as against the rules, but we all know what we're talking about here) himself in the past... do we really have to continue to argue anymore about whether or not casual freestyle is farming? no? good... so let's just stop talking about it as a legitimate setting altogether... personally, I don't care if someone plays it, or for what reasons, but it's a joke.. so from now on, let's keep these debates restricted to sequential and speed freestyle as far as who's the best overall player... and I have no issue heavily weighting sequential in this question, so long as speed freestyle is a part (however small) of the equation regardless of the generally weak arguments (IMO) against this.

I am not sure that anyone was completely dismissing speed FS. I do believe, however, that most would put it lower on their hierarchy when ranking for the GOAT.
After reading through this thread of am convinced this is the right response. The basic reason is a large pool of very good or great players do not even bother to play speed FS because of their internet connection. This effectively weakens the overall competition of good or great speed freestylers as they do not get to play against the best competition. Therefor they are dominating a diluted field. It is why I would rank guys like Wille Mays ahead of Babe Ruth. Both all time greats but only one of them competed against all the best players. It was no fault of Ruth but baseball was segregated back in those days...

[Mr Changsha]

ok people...an elite player (how good is up for all of you to muddle about with) but nonetheless an objectively elite player saying that casual freestyle is a farming setting and little more.. moreover, he said he used it as such (not farming as far as against the rules, but we all know what we're talking about here) himself in the past... do we really have to continue to argue anymore about whether or not casual freestyle is farming? no? good... so let's just stop talking about it as a legitimate setting altogether... personally, I don't care if someone plays it, or for what reasons, but it's a joke.. so from now on, let's keep these debates restricted to sequential and speed freestyle as far as who's the best overall player... and I have no issue heavily weighting sequential in this question, so long as speed freestyle is a part (however small) of the equation regardless of the generally weak arguments (IMO) against this.

I thought exactly the same thing about his comments. Frankly, I think we should applaud the fact that he publically admits it.

But it isn't exactly news that casual freestyle has been massively abused over the years...we all know it has. My rather vitriolic comments a few pages back were based on that setting.

[betiko]

ha! let me laugh my ass out!
so basically, freestyle sequential is farming and speed freestyle isn't?
in both case it's farming if your opponents are clueless (or if your opponent is valid but his conection sucks in a speed freestlye). As long as you have a valid opposition, they are not farming.

therefore, you need 2 prerogatives for a speed freestlye to be fair:
-equivalent conection
-freestyle understanding of timings

you only need 1 for freestyle sequential:
-freestyle understanding of timings

[rhp 1]

ha! let me laugh my ass out!
so basically, freestyle sequential is farming and speed freestyle isn't?
in both case it's farming if your opponents are clueless (or if your opponent is valid but his conection sucks in a speed freestlye). As long as you have a valid opposition, they are not farming.

therefore, you need 2 prerogatives for a speed freestlye to be fair:
-equivalent conection
-freestyle understanding of timings

you only need 1 for freestyle sequential:
-freestyle understanding of timings

Spoken like someone who does not play speed fs... farming is purposely using settings and proceedures strictly for points with the express purpose for ganing points without risking your own... speed fs is nothing like this... I risk my points everytime I start a game... I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care... I just want to play a game... call it farming if you wish, it clearly is not

[Donelladan]

Spoken like someone who does not play speed fs... farming is purposely using settings and proceedures strictly for points with the express purpose for ganing points without risking your own... speed fs is nothing like this... I risk my points everytime I start a game... I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care... I just want to play a game... call it farming if you wish, it clearly is not

There is no difference with sequential freestyle. Good player can join as well.

You can't say speed freestyle has not been used to farm. Even if you are not.

[rhp 1]

Spoken like someone who does not play speed fs... farming is purposely using settings and proceedures strictly for points with the express purpose for ganing points without risking your own... speed fs is nothing like this... I risk my points everytime I start a game... I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care... I just want to play a game... call it farming if you wish, it clearly is not

There is no difference with sequential freestyle. Good player can join as well.

You can't say speed freestyle has not been used to farm. Even if you are not.

Of course it has.. only an idiot would say otherwise.. but casual freestyle? LOL... it's sole purpose is to farm, at least best that I can surmise...

[Donelladan]

Of course it has.. only an idiot would say otherwise.. but casual freestyle? LOL... it's sole purpose is to farm, at least best that I can surmise...

I guess you are an idiot if you understood my post as, " there is no difference between casual freestyle and speed freestyle".

I only said there is no difference with the reference to your quote saying " I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub.... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care". ( did you notice I highlighted that part in the quote ? )
That is true for speed freestyle as well as casual freestyle, top player can join both of them.
I can easily find you casual freestyle game with several or only top player in them. Sole purpose of casual freestyle is not farming.
And speed freestyle like casual freestyle can be use to farm. I will agree it might be easier with casual freestyle.

EDIT : sry rhp, misunderstood your previous post, shouldn't have been so agressive, I read too fast

[rhp 1]

Of course it has.. only an idiot would say otherwise.. but casual freestyle? LOL... it's sole purpose is to farm, at least best that I can surmise...

I guess you are an idiot if you understood my post as, " there is no difference between casual freestyle and speed freestyle".

I only said there is no difference with the reference to your quote saying " I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub.... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care". ( did you notice I highlighted that part in the quote ? )
That is true for speed freestyle as well as casual freestyle, top player can join both of them.
I can easily find you casual freestyle game with several or only top player in them. Sole purpose of casual freestyle is not farming.
And speed freestyle like casual freestyle can be use to farm. I will agree it might be easier with casual freestyle.

Easy bud... I didn't disagree with anything you said...and I hope you'd know the difference between casual fs and speed fs, as I assumed you did. And sure you could find casual fs games with solid competition in them... but for every one of those? I could probably find 20-30 that are obviously being used to "farm" (I put it quotes as its not against the rules to do so, and i personally have no problem with it)... these games are generally set up with the sole intention of raping points (again, not caring) whereas you would be hard pressed to find me speed fs games set up for the express purpose of gaining points... I'll use myself for an example... I enjoy speed fs games on many maps and pretty much any settings.. there are a few I enjoy playing more than others... pelopo, england, feudal, f epic, oasis, New World, and a few others... I set theses games (as many current fs players do) because they are fun for me.... if a top player joins? Great! If a scrub joins? Sorry? I even try to help out wanna be fs players with strat advice, routing them to the sites clickable maps add-on, etc... point being, speed fs farming doesn't really take place anymore, though many think it does... if non-skilled players join publically started games, oh well... the intention wasn't to farm anyone... but the intention in casual fs is exactly that the HUGE majority of the time... that's my only point...

[loutil]

Of course it has.. only an idiot would say otherwise.. but casual freestyle? LOL... it's sole purpose is to farm, at least best that I can surmise...

I guess you are an idiot if you understood my post as, " there is no difference between casual freestyle and speed freestyle".

I only said there is no difference with the reference to your quote saying " I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub.... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care". ( did you notice I highlighted that part in the quote ? )
That is true for speed freestyle as well as casual freestyle, top player can join both of them.
I can easily find you casual freestyle game with several or only top player in them. Sole purpose of casual freestyle is not farming.
And speed freestyle like casual freestyle can be use to farm. I will agree it might be easier with casual freestyle.

Easy bud... I didn't disagree with anything you said...and I hope you'd know the difference between casual fs and speed fs, as I assumed you did. And sure you could find casual fs games with solid competition in them... but for every one of those? I could probably find 20-30 that are obviously being used to "farm" (I put it quotes as its not against the rules to do so, and i personally have no problem with it)... these games are generally set up with the sole intention of raping points (again, not caring) whereas you would be hard pressed to find me speed fs games set up for the express purpose of gaining points... I'll use myself for an example... I enjoy speed fs games on many maps and pretty much any settings.. there are a few I enjoy playing more than others... pelopo, england, feudal, f epic, oasis, New World, and a few others... I set theses games (as many current fs players do) because they are fun for me.... if a top player joins? Great! If a scrub joins? Sorry? I even try to help out wanna be fs players with strat advice, routing them to the sites clickable maps add-on, etc... point being, speed fs farming doesn't really take place anymore, though many think it does... if non-skilled players join publically started games, oh well... the intention wasn't to farm anyone... but the intention in casual fs is exactly that the HUGE majority of the time... that's my only point...

That really does not make a lot of sense. Casual FS farmers do the exact same thing you do. They start games and wait for people to join. They have no more control over who joins their games than you would. The exception being General Lee who went out of his way to invite unsuspecting nubes into his games. It is interesting to note that on most maps you play the level of competition is relatively close to your own. However, on England it is substantively lower.

[betiko]

ha! let me laugh my ass out!
so basically, freestyle sequential is farming and speed freestyle isn't?
in both case it's farming if your opponents are clueless (or if your opponent is valid but his conection sucks in a speed freestlye). As long as you have a valid opposition, they are not farming.

therefore, you need 2 prerogatives for a speed freestlye to be fair:
-equivalent conection
-freestyle understanding of timings

you only need 1 for freestyle sequential:
-freestyle understanding of timings

Spoken like someone who does not play speed fs... farming is purposely using settings and proceedures strictly for points with the express purpose for ganing points without risking your own... speed fs is nothing like this... I risk my points everytime I start a game... I have no clue who will join them... it could be a top player, it could be a scrub... I have no way of knowing, nor do I care... I just want to play a game... call it farming if you wish, it clearly is not

1) I have played 395 speed freestyles including a few against you
2) why is it any different from creating/joining a casual freestyle?
3) speed freestyle reduces very considerably your chances of losing, as you know you will not have turn order problems to start and you then can rely on your speed (either due to you better conection or to your skills depending on the opponent)

what argument exactly do you have to call one game mode farming and the other not?

[iAmCaffeine]

Casual freestyle can be manipulated more easily during the time period given to take your turn. Speed freestyle is all within five minutes, at maximum.

[rhp 1]

Casual freestyle can be manipulated more easily during the time period given to take your turn. Speed freestyle is all within five minutes, at maximum.

exactly...



and betiko.. please, please join some more of my games! lol.. <3

[betiko]

Casual freestyle can be manipulated more easily during the time period given to take your turn. Speed freestyle is all within five minutes, at maximum.

exactly...



and betiko.. please, please join some more of my games! lol.. <3

lol!
hey 4-3 for you face to face and 1-1 as teammates we had a huge quad frenzy on saint patrick's day with quad speed freestlye games!

[rhp 1]

Casual freestyle can be manipulated more easily during the time period given to take your turn. Speed freestyle is all within five minutes, at maximum.

exactly...



and betiko.. please, please join some more of my games! lol.. <3

lol!
hey 4-3 for you face to face and 1-1 as teammates we had a huge quad frenzy on saint patrick's day with quad speed freestlye games!

umm....

head to head against me, you're 0-2

3 player games you're 1-1

and and fs quads we're 1-1 playing against each other
and 1-1 on the same team

so not awful... lol....

so start playing more... I'll hold your hand...

though in the quads games you were a coat-tail rider... which oddly, so was I... when those came around I remember having the rock in most of them... oh well... lol