Conquer Club

The story of the 3 day conqueror.

Hello everyone, thought I would write this out for all to see in 1 setting....

It was a sunny afternoon in early November, sitting in my chair at home, not much going on. My kids had, at about the same time, their sports seasons ended, and my softball within a day or 2 as well. Our 2 foster kids were re-united with grandma right at the end of October, even though we were hoping mom would shape up so she could have her kids back. Now, we were taking a break from fostering until December 1st when we would be active again. Fostering, in a brief explanation is this: Kids are taken away by the goverment from their bad living conditions and shipped to trained foster parents such as ourselves. We had previously had kids that slept on trash piles, a kid who was kept in a cage, a kid fed beer because that was all the food there was, etc. It's very draining and we wanted a break to get revitalized. ( to all those that thought the living on beer was a good thing )

So, on to something I thought might entertain me, give me something to do, and prove a mathematical calculation of mass games that I had thought of for some time.

I started a thread in my clan forum seeing if anyone would be interested in a tourney, and quite to my surprise, got 31 entries. The tournament was set up and I played each player 21 times. I had 24 hours to make a move. If I saw I was losing a game, I would take the turns faster. If I was winning, I would take my turn slower. An experiment of sorts, and tied into a tournament. The goal for each player was to win as many games as they could and everyone that won over 50% against me would make it to the finals against each other.

I got a little overwhelmed, so there were some games I had to keep going. They were not hostage situations, because they were ok'ed by my opponents and actually preferred by them for this reason: I tried to have the higher ranks beat me first, where they would get points in the 20s for each win. Didn't want the 2 stripers to get 50 or 60 points off me too early in the tourney, and then have the majors only get 10 points, wouldn't be fair. So, I started the higher ranked guys in the tourney first, and they got their wins, then worked my way down the ranks. Then, when I ran out of time for this tourney, I had to start closing the games out, I wanted to start by beating the lowest ranks so that I would only win in the 20s per game at most. I didn't want to beat the majors and have THEM lose 50 or 60 points a game. That's why I was saving the higher ranks for last. And my wins happened on a rotating basis, to keep any one person from losing too much. Oh, there were 2 guys that didn't want the games to last longer, and so I ended their games way before, since I didn't want a hostage situation at hand. But the rest of the guys preferred to not end the games until it would be less points that they would lose, in a fair way. Didn't think you could hold a hostage that wanted a game to continue.
Yes, I had about 700 games started in 10 days... yes, I spent 18 to 20 hours a day playing those games for quite a few days... yes, I was late to work a couple times.

This is not a procedure I will ever try again, as it cost me too much time, and my health. But, it was all supposed to happen within 2 weeks and be over, not dragged on. I needed to clear off this tourney by December 1st, so I started closing out games. (And we received another child on December 3rd, just FYI). This tourney also helped some of my clanmates to open their eyes to some of my favorite maps, which would also help for future wars.

I knew I could shoot up in points in the end, which was the fun part, and had no idea of the success of my calculations. I never intended to make people feel like I had beat up their family members or whatever caused them such angst. I was rather shocked at the immaturity level of some people on this site for what they wrote about me. I am not a glory hound, and don't care about points, except for this one trial. People came out of nowhere to show how little they thought of me and to FOE me, but I think some people take this fun gamesite a little too serious.

In the end, I was reset, which I disagree with, but life goes on. I just wanted to post this for something to read for those who were curious about how things went down. I did NOT post this for more arguement or negative posts. So if you feel you have something else to say, say it to someone else, because I didn't even read all the garbage on all the posts, wasn't worth my time.

Peace,
Randall

I'm not sure whether to give you more credit or less for not even intending to hit conqueror

*****

amazed that you can get a point reset and still remain on team CC... *cough*... even more amazed you can still play games... get a forum infraction and you are gone for days, weeks, months without having really harmed the site... you got a point reset for cheating to the top, turning off who knows how many potential paying customers (i used to be premium, like 3 or 4 times i think) and can still play in games AND be a part of team CC.. funny that you cheat in the game, you get a slap on the wrist... post something in the forums team CC does not agree with, they silence you for as long as they see fit, despite less than 1% of all users ever going to the forums... the entire punitive process needs to be revisited by the site... even if blitz is possibly the owner ...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-seriously... you get a point reset, the biggest punishment we have for playing infractions, aside from bans, and you can remain a site volunteer? wonders will never cease to amaze...

As long as everyone agreed to the delaying or speeding up of a game, then I don't see how his method is illegitimate nor illegal.

After reading the OP, I don't see any good arguments from the anti-TheCrown crowd.

What TheCrown was "convicted" of was "Colluding with other players to artificially manipulate the scoring system." What he says he did here pretty much sounds like that.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As long as everyone agreed to the delaying or speeding up of a game, then I don't see how his method is illegitimate nor illegal.

After reading the OP, I don't see any good arguments from the anti-TheCrown crowd.

Agreed; GLG ran rampant on this site and never once had a point reduction or the removal of his medal. I still believe TheCrowns points should have remained and medal issued.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As long as everyone agreed to the delaying or speeding up of a game, then I don't see how his method is illegitimate nor illegal.

After reading the OP, I don't see any good arguments from the anti-TheCrown crowd.

TheCrown wrote:The story of the 3 day conqueror.

Hello everyone, ........

........
In the end, I was reset, which I disagree with, but life goes on. I just wanted to post this for something to read for those who were curious about how things went down. I did NOT post this for more arguement or negative posts. So if you feel you have something else to say, say it to someone else, because I didn't even read all the garbage on all the posts, wasn't worth my time.

Peace,
Randall

I really dont even read all the garbage on the OP since it isnt any worth of my time;
this is said,
should i take any serious the any story that may come anytime from anyone ?

spiesr wrote:What TheCrown was "convicted" of was "Colluding with other players to artificially manipulate the scoring system." What he says he did here pretty much sounds like that.

If someone ever asks anyone to speed up a game (e.g. "let's real-time this 24-hour game"--which is manipulating the scoreboard by getting points sooner), then they should be warned/banned/whatever.

It's a stupid rule, which is obviously arbitrary. TheCrown did that very act 'too many' times.


The loud minority--to which the admins/mods respond regularly--was upset about an act which many of them engage in. I think they're mainly upset because they weren't clever enough (or willing enough) to dedicate the time toward getting Conqueror. Somehow, slowly working toward Conqueror via team games (many of which are against disorganized oppositions) is the 'legit' method.

Some people are always jealous of other people's success and will always harp about some perceived injustice while overlooking the illegitimacy of their own methods. It's hypocritical bullshit, and it's whiny.

HardAttack wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:As long as everyone agreed to the delaying or speeding up of a game, then I don't see how his method is illegitimate nor illegal.

After reading the OP, I don't see any good arguments from the anti-TheCrown crowd.

TheCrown wrote:The story of the 3 day conqueror.

Hello everyone, ........

........
In the end, I was reset, which I disagree with, but life goes on. I just wanted to post this for something to read for those who were curious about how things went down. I did NOT post this for more arguement or negative posts. So if you feel you have something else to say, say it to someone else, because I didn't even read all the garbage on all the posts, wasn't worth my time.

Peace,
Randall

I really dont even read all the garbage on the OP since it isnt any worth of my time;
this is said,
should i take any serious the any story that may come anytime from anyone ?

I don't blame him for not wanting to spend more time on this site arguing. It wouldn't be advantageous for him because this is a largely an emotional issue driven by vague notions of justice, jealously, and rage.

Still not seeing any good arguments against TheCrown's legitimate method.

i've failed to manipulate the scoreboard in my favour in over 50% of my attempts. at the time of posting this i have been successful 6,031 times.

BGtheBrain wrote:LAL
Vote thecrown

+1

I have not opened my mouth at all during this process. But for you to come out like this and then lie to everyone. shaking my head.

Wow. We all know what happened, and you dont even admit to it? Just lost a lot of respect.



I am going to stop right there. Man I am so disgusted that you tried to justify this. Be honorable and own up to what you did and accept your punishment. I have tried and tried to hold my mouth shut and let your business be your business and not interfere. But I just cant let someone lie to a whole community, I just cant.

Wow, if that is real then TheCrown is a very skilled manipulator and we can probably expect more from him. Makes you wonder if GLG and TheCrown are the Finkle and Einhorn of CC!

TheCrown wrote:So, on to something I thought might entertain me, give me something to do, and prove a mathematical calculation of mass games that I had thought of for some time.
If I saw I was losing a game, I would take the turns faster. If I was winning, I would take my turn slower. An experiment of sorts...

For being as good as a mafia player as you are MOB, I'm surprised you can't seem to see all the words in front of you. Nice accusations that are based on the fact that you can't read.

@ MoB. That post was on Apr 25, 2012. I don't think that is relevant to this discussion...

Well my quick search makes me think the post is a hoax. That and normally one would provide a link to such damning evidence if indeed it was real.

EDIT: I thought I did my due diligence by checking to see if TheCrown and MOB were in the same clan ... I didn't realize that TheCrown had previously been in his clan. Sorry. Carry on.

agentcom wrote:Well my quick search makes me think the post is a hoax. That and normally one would provide a link to such damning evidence if indeed it was real.

I'm sure it's from their clan forums from back when Crown was in TNC... so a link would not do you much good.

Swifte wrote:

agentcom wrote:Well my quick search makes me think the post is a hoax. That and normally one would provide a link to such damning evidence if indeed it was real.

I'm sure it's from their clan forums from back when Crown was in TNC... so a link would not do you much good.

Considering the moderators are "Clan Forum Moderators", I'd have to agree.

Gotcha. Edited my post.

I don't think you can say the picture posted is not a valid piece of evidence. If anything it shows that this plan was premeditated by the crown for a very long time to me.

If the post was in the TNC forum maybe he couldn't get the TNC cohorts to go along with his plan. This explains him starting a new clan and inviting new players that were desperate for attention and being welcomed into a new clan. He then persuaded these unknowing accomplices to help him fulfill his dream of making it to conqueror by manipulating the average system of game play. These low ranked players who barely understand clan life surely don't understand the intricate workings of the game and didn't fully grasp what the crown was planning to do in terms of manipulating the score board by holding games for a very long time in order to finish them in rapid succession and run up the scoreboard.

Think of it like a gang. People are desperate to join and feel "welcome" and part of the "brotherhood". This wanting to belong often leads people to blindly doing whatever their "leader" or "higher ups" want them to do.

Part of me thinks The Crown helped sell this to his clan members by saying they could jump up in points until he made his conqueror run. This would be due to the fact that they could gather their wins early while he held off on finishing his wins til he was ready to make his run. As a striper who wouldn't love to be able to hold onto 50-200 points from their wins until the crown made his run? That big of a jump in points for them means a lot.

I would be really interested to see the threads that MOB posted the image from and the thread that is in TheCrowns clan forum but I know that will never happen. I'm sure a lot of the truth lies inside those threads.


To those of you who don't get that what he did was wrong:

If this was allowed anyone could become conqueror easily and it would only require them teaming up with 1 friend.

You team up with one friend and you guys create 800 1 v 1 games on doodle earth. You guys play with a "tournament rule and setting" that you will play out all the games and give them your all. Once you get an opponent down to 1 region though all game play stops and players only deploy and end turn. Once all 800 games are decided and one of the two players only has 1 region then it comes time for the players to cash in there games and each can enjoy becoming conqueror easily.

Say the games go 50/50 and players are at 2000-2500 points.

Player 1 finishes their 400 games that they have won and they jump up in score to conqueror and sit there for a day or two or whatever.

Meanwhile player 2 and player 1 just keep deploying and ending turn in the rest of player 2s "won" games.

Then comes the time for player 2 to make his run to the top. Player 2 cashes in all the games he has as "wins" and makes his run to the scoreboard and then gets his conqueror medal and sits at the top for however long they want.


Now imagine this method being multiplied between lots of people, with as many games as they want. This would ruin the integrity of the scoreboard and does not show a players true skill level. Many players value the scoreboard as an overall ranking system. Though it is not perfect that does not mean we should attempt to make it any less perfect by allowing behavior like this too occur.

If you still don't see the problem with what he did then I would like to direct you to learning about common sense.

I think what TheCrown did was ingenious, but that doesn't mean that it was right or that he didn't deserve punishment. There are many criminals that have "brilliant" plans but that doesn't mean what they do is right just because it required a level of intelligence and planning to accomplish.

Uh, so? It's a title on here. It's not the hope diamond.

2dimes wrote:Uh, so? It's a title on here. It's not the hope diamond.

2dimes, what is sacred, if not our titles?!?!

!?

--Andy

Jippd wrote:
To those of you who don't get that what he did was wrong:

If this was allowed anyone could become conqueror easily and it would only require them teaming up with 1 friend.

You team up with one friend and you guys create 800 1 v 1 games on doodle earth. You guys play with a "tournament rule and setting" that you will play out all the games and give them your all. Once you get an opponent down to 1 region though all game play stops and players only deploy and end turn. Once all 800 games are decided and one of the two players only has 1 region then it comes time for the players to cash in there games and each can enjoy becoming conqueror easily.

Say the games go 50/50 and players are at 2000-2500 points.

Player 1 finishes their 400 games that they have won and they jump up in score to conqueror and sit there for a day or two or whatever.

Meanwhile player 2 and player 1 just keep deploying and ending turn in the rest of player 2s "won" games.

Then comes the time for player 2 to make his run to the top. Player 2 cashes in all the games he has as "wins" and makes his run to the scoreboard and then gets his conqueror medal and sits at the top for however long they want.


Now imagine this method being multiplied between lots of people, with as many games as they want. This would ruin the integrity of the scoreboard and does not show a players true skill level. Many players value the scoreboard as an overall ranking system. Though it is not perfect that does not mean we should attempt to make it any less perfect by allowing behavior like this too occur.

If you still don't see the problem with what he did then I would like to direct you to learning about common sense.

I think what TheCrown did was ingenious, but that doesn't mean that it was right or that he didn't deserve punishment. There are many criminals that have "brilliant" plans but that doesn't mean what they do is right just because it required a level of intelligence and planning to accomplish.

That's a great point, and I don't have much of an argument against it; however, it only justifies punishing the copy-cats of thecrown's strategy.

That, and there's this very vague line of legitimacy which most of us cross. Many of us play particularly complicated maps and settings in order to run circles around most of our opponents. This is collusion with other teammates in manipulating the scoreboard. Granted, the impact is much less--unless one plays many team games, I still don't see a difference between this 'legit' play and thecrown's tactics except in degree, but in kind both are equally illegitimate, in the sense that some call thecrown's strategy illegitmate while neglecting the cheapness of their own strategies. That's mainly why I find most opponents of thecrown to be hypocrites.

Jippd wrote:I don't think you can say the post is not a valid piece of evidence. If anything it shows that this plan was premeditated by the crown for a very long time to me.

If the post was in the TNC forum maybe he couldn't get the TNC cohorts to go along with his plan. This explains him starting a new clan and inviting new players that were desperate for attention and being welcomed into a new clan. He then persuaded these unknowing accomplices to help him fulfill his dream of making it to conqueror by manipulating the average system of game play. These low ranked players who barely understand clan life surely don't understand the intricate workings of the game and didn't fully grasp what the crown was planning to do in terms of manipulating the score board by holding games for a very long time in order to finish them in rapid succession and run up the scoreboard.

Think of it like a gang. People are desperate to join and feel "welcome" and part of the "brotherhood". This wanting to belong often leads people to blindly doing whatever their "leader" or "higher ups" want them to do.

Part of me thinks The Crown helped sell this to his clan members by saying they could jump up in points until he made his conqueror run. This would be due to the fact that they could gather their wins early while he held off on finishing his wins til he was ready to make his run.

I would be really interested to see the threads that MOB posted the image from and the thread that is in TheCrowns clan forum but I know that will never happen. I'm sure a lot of the truth lies inside those threads.


To those of you who don't get that what he did was wrong:

If this was allowed anyone could become conqueror easily and it would only require them teaming up with 1 friend.

You team up with one friend and you guys create 800 1 v 1 games on doodle earth. You guys play with a "tournament rule and setting" that you will play out all the games and give them your all. Once you get an opponent down to 1 region though all game play stops and players only deploy and end turn. Once all 800 games are decided and one of the two players only has 1 region then it comes time for the players to cash in there games and each can enjoy becoming conqueror easily.

Say the games go 50/50 and players are at 2000-2500 points.

Player 1 finishes their 400 games that they have won and they jump up in score to conqueror and sit there for a day or two or whatever.

Meanwhile player 2 and player 1 just keep deploying and ending turn in the rest of player 2s "won" games.

Then comes the time for player 2 to make his run to the top. Player 2 cashes in all the games he has as "wins" and makes his run to the scoreboard and then gets his conqueror medal and sits at the top for however long they want.


Now imagine this method being multiplied between lots of people, with as many games as they want. This would ruin the integrity of the scoreboard and does not show a players true skill level. Many players value the scoreboard as an overall ranking system. Though it is not perfect that does not mean we should attempt to make it any less perfect by allowing behavior like this too occur.

If you still don't see the problem with what he did then I would like to direct you to learning about common sense.

I think what TheCrown did was ingenious, but that doesn't mean that it was right or that he didn't deserve punishment. There are many criminals that have "brilliant" plans but that doesn't mean what they do is right just because it required a level of intelligence and planning to accomplish.

Very nicely put, I totally agree

BigBallinStalin wrote:
That's a great point, and I don't have much of an argument against it; however, it only justifies punishing the copy-cats of thecrown's strategy.

That, and there's this very vague line of legitimacy which most of us cross. Many of us play particularly complicated maps and settings in order to run circles around most of our opponents. This is collusion with other teammates in manipulating the scoreboard. Granted, the impact is much less--unless one plays many team games, I still don't see a difference between this 'legit' play and thecrown's tactics except in degree, but in kind both are equally illegitimate, in the sense that some call thecrown's strategy illegitmate while neglecting the cheapness of their own strategies. That's mainly why I find most opponents of thecrown to be hypocrites.

To this argument I would like to propose an analogy that I presented in the C&A thread:

This analogy I feel addresses the issue of "those people that do it all the time on a miniscule scale" and what TheCrown did.

Imagine driving with normal American laws.

It is not illegal to slam on the brakes or slam on the gas. While driving in a lane of traffic if someone slammed on the brakes or slammed on the gas once in a great while it would not be a big deal.

If someone was driving and slamming on the gas then slamming on the breaks for 500 miles straight on an expressway I would consider that to be cause for concern. It would also be something that I as an average minded citizen (CC user) would hope that the police (mods) would take care of the situation and show that this behavior is not condoned or appreciated. If they didn't show that the behavior was prohibited then people could start doing this all the time and what would that do for the community at large?

While what they are doing if viewed on a small scale isn't illegal, them doing it on a very large scale is not right and is not better for society as a whole. This is what constitutes his "gross abuse of the system". The mods needed to give the crown a points reset and strip his right to the medal to demonstrate to the community that the behavior is not acceptable.