Strategy Talk! Current Topic: Paranoia

[safariguy5]

I don't know that there was much you could have done about that one to be honest. I've always seemed to find that in games with traitors, the groups have a really low success rate at figuring out the danger.

The main problem is that I gave the traitor alternate win conditions besides just siding with mafia. I did have a traitor in Modern Warfare Mafia and the game was much less chaotic.

[Mr. Squirrel]

I don't know that there was much you could have done about that one to be honest. I've always seemed to find that in games with traitors, the groups have a really low success rate at figuring out the danger.

The main problem is that I gave the traitor alternate win conditions besides just siding with mafia. I did have a traitor in Modern Warfare Mafia and the game was much less chaotic.

I've never used a traitor before in any of my games, but I've always wanted to. I've just never found the right balance for it. From what I've seen, traitors either completely ruin any chances of the mafia winning, or end up being completely useless, depending on their abilities/win conditions/etc. I've fiddled around with a few setups before, but never found a good balance.

[strike wolf]

I kind of feel that this thread died before its time so I am bringing it back to life.


So how should a jailkeeper be played?

[Haggis_McMutton]

Hey, i just realized. I made a strategy talk topic first !

vote pcm for plagiarism

Also, only time I played a jailkeeper I just tried to target a large cross-section of the population, particularly those who are more likely to make it towards endgame but also some of the more shady characters, who are likely to be targeted at night for one reason or another.
Sure, i run the risk of screwing up someone's investigation, but I'll have some means of verifying claims later in the game, by seeing if it matches with whom I know was jail kept.

Of course, i was killed rather early so that was all moot.

[strike wolf]

Weren't you a jailkeeper in buffy?

[Haggis_McMutton]

Weren't you a jailkeeper in buffy?

Nope, I was a nerfed cop(could only investigate regarding a specific death). Didn't manage to find anyone as I remember ...

[pancakemix]

Weren't you a jailkeeper in buffy?

Yeah, kinda phased this in the wake of a whole mess of other stuff. I'm more than willing to keep it alive though.

[shieldgenerator7]

I've never played jailkeeper but I've played body guard, but unfortunately was nk'd night 1. I still think I died protecting AoG tho. he he

[strike wolf]

I have never played the role however I imagine I would play it mostly as a role blocker first and lean more towards the fact it is protective later on in the game. I would probably mostly lean towards roles that do not have night actions to protect as long as I felt there were other protective roles in the game but if it came down to a point where I felt I may be the only protective role left I would probably risk role blocking the cop one night to keep him alive.

[safariguy5]

I have never played the role however I imagine I would play it mostly as a role blocker first and lean more towards the fact it is protective later on in the game. I would probably mostly lean towards roles that do not have night actions to protect as long as I felt there were other protective roles in the game but if it came down to a point where I felt I may be the only protective role left I would probably risk role blocking the cop one night to keep him alive.

Agreed. Jailkeeper tends to hinder investigative roles, but it would be ideal for protecting lovers.

[Mr. Squirrel]

I've never played a jailkeeper myself (or at least I don't remember it) but I do love putting jailkeepers in the games that I mod. I find it serves well as both a defensive and offensive role. Players can choose whether they want to be protecting town (yet hindering town actions) or blocking scum (and hindering vigs). Its a double-edged sword that makes it interesting for me (the mod) to watch how it plays out.

[strike wolf]

the hindering vigs is why I usually would go with someone who looks scummy but overlooked by town. I see in the early goings of a game you are more likely to hurt town by going the protective route but it can become more useful as the day goes on.

[safariguy5]

the hindering vigs is why I usually would go with someone who looks scummy but overlooked by town. I see in the early goings of a game you are more likely to hurt town by going the protective route but it can become more useful as the day goes on.

Quite frankly, I think most people get too trigger happy as vigs and end up hurting town more than helping it. Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Jailkeeping a power tripping vig Night 1 may not be the worst thing.

[freezie]

I've never played jailkeeper but I've played body guard, but unfortunately was nk'd night 1. I still think I died protecting AoG tho. he he

Nope, I was the godfather in that game and we decided to kill you n1.

Sorry, better luck next time.

[strike wolf]

the hindering vigs is why I usually would go with someone who looks scummy but overlooked by town. I see in the early goings of a game you are more likely to hurt town by going the protective route but it can become more useful as the day goes on.

Quite frankly, I think most people get too trigger happy as vigs and end up hurting town more than helping it. Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Jailkeeping a power tripping vig Night 1 may not be the worst thing.

Yes true and I will admit I can be a bit trigger happy.

[shieldgenerator7]

so how do you keep yourself from being trigger happer?

[strike wolf]

By not randomly killing people?

[safariguy5]

By not randomly killing people?

Yeah, like I mentioned before, Night 1 is probably not a good time to be vig killing someone unless you think they're a jester. And if you don't have any good leads, a blind shot is a pretty bad idea unless you're getting close to LyLo and the odds of hitting mafia are a bit better.

[Mr. Squirrel]

By not randomly killing people?

Yeah, like I mentioned before, Night 1 is probably not a good time to be vig killing someone unless you think they're a jester. And if you don't have any good leads, a blind shot is a pretty bad idea unless you're getting close to LyLo and the odds of hitting mafia are a bit better.

Yea, never do a blind shot. Listen to the town if you aren't sure (they are normally asking any vig to kill off someone). If there are multiple strong suspects during the day, kill the unlynched one at night. A vig should never use his ability more than once or twice though in a game.

[F1fth]

I actually can't recall ever even playing a game on CC with a jailkeeper. I may be mistaken on that but it seems to me that you would play it much the same a roleblocker and block everyone you can. While it may be a problem if you screw up a pro-town role, I think it's just as likely early on if not more so, that you block a kill and have an excellent target for a lynch as the blocked party is highly suspect of being the killer.

But while we're on the topic of strategy, this would be a good time to point out that while there are a lot of great resources out there for the rules of the game (both on CC and from places like mafiascum), I think that we're lacking a bit in terms of the strategy side of things for newer players. This thread is a great step in the right direction. Furthermore, while newbies to CCMaf might be familiar with the game from elsewhere, we do tend to have a somewhat unique style of playing and some expectations that I think would be beneficial to have on hand.

For instance, on CC we generally expect people never to no lynch day 1 as you're likely to end up in the same boat with no info on day 2. I can't tell you how many times I've seen some novice suggest a no lynch D1 and get jumped on for it because of their inexperience. I know this is more of general mafia strategy thing, but I'm sure we have our idiosyncrasies.

I've noticed that some have made comments about the general skill level not being up as up to standard as we like, so this would be a good way to go about changing that. We could also encourage more thoughtful and content-filled posting as well. This could be implemented in a few simple ways with some Mod support:
1. Make a subforum of mafia discussions for guides (the most work, most organized).
2. Make guides/strategy discussions in this subforum itself, have one sticky that links to the community-agreed-upon "good ones" (a middle ground).
3. Just start posting guides and discussions and let everything sort itself out. (the least work, least organized).

Again, sorry for a long windy post to a fairly straightforward thread, but this seems like a good place to talk about the issues I mentioned.

[Daviddenver]

Not sure where to post a message but is anybody else interested in wanting to be part of game number 10,000,000 ?

Dave

[safariguy5]

I actually can't recall ever even playing a game on CC with a jailkeeper. I may be mistaken on that but it seems to me that you would play it much the same a roleblocker and block everyone you can. While it may be a problem if you screw up a pro-town role, I think it's just as likely early on if not more so, that you block a kill and have an excellent target for a lynch as the blocked party is highly suspect of being the killer.

But while we're on the topic of strategy, this would be a good time to point out that while there are a lot of great resources out there for the rules of the game (both on CC and from places like mafiascum), I think that we're lacking a bit in terms of the strategy side of things for newer players. This thread is a great step in the right direction. Furthermore, while newbies to CCMaf might be familiar with the game from elsewhere, we do tend to have a somewhat unique style of playing and some expectations that I think would be beneficial to have on hand.

For instance, on CC we generally expect people never to no lynch day 1 as you're likely to end up in the same boat with no info on day 2. I can't tell you how many times I've seen some novice suggest a no lynch D1 and get jumped on for it because of their inexperience. I know this is more of general mafia strategy thing, but I'm sure we have our idiosyncrasies.

I've noticed that some have made comments about the general skill level not being up as up to standard as we like, so this would be a good way to go about changing that. We could also encourage more thoughtful and content-filled posting as well. This could be implemented in a few simple ways with some Mod support:
1. Make a subforum of mafia discussions for guides (the most work, most organized).
2. Make guides/strategy discussions in this subforum itself, have one sticky that links to the community-agreed-upon "good ones" (a middle ground).
3. Just start posting guides and discussions and let everything sort itself out. (the least work, least organized).

Again, sorry for a long windy post to a fairly straightforward thread, but this seems like a good place to talk about the issues I mentioned.

There's a mafia section in the CC Newsletter, where nagerous, Fircoal and I write articles. I personally write about more "advanced" roles rather than the standard cop or doctor and some more advanced strategies. So far, off the top of my head, I've covered busdriver, bodyguard, WIFOM, Meta, and vigilante in the most current issue. Also discussed jester in the April Fools issue.

I was planning on covering bandwagonning and vote position in the next issue, followed by another role analysis (I alternate between roles and strategies). I could write something about jailkeeper if you all would like, I'm open to suggestions. I must say though, I haven't gotten around to talking about the more fun roles like SKer and Cult Recruiter or Bomb.

[F1fth]

Wow, had no idea there was a mafia section in the newsletter. I guess I better get back into the habit of reading those things again then.

Having just read a few articles, it's completely awesome and is exactly in line with what I was thinking, but what do you think of my suggestions? Could we use more strategizing for beginners in the discussion forum and maybe give what we feel is the most vital information a nice, easy-to-access home to reside in?

[safariguy5]

Wow, had no idea there was a mafia section in the newsletter. I guess I better get back into the habit of reading those things again then.

Having just read a few articles, it's completely awesome and is exactly in line with what I was thinking, but what do you think of my suggestions? Could we use more strategizing for beginners in the discussion forum and maybe give what we feel is the most vital information a nice, easy-to-access home to reside in?

I'm sure if we could come up with some strategy guide and get it stickied, it would be quite good. Maybe we should kick it around in discussions first to see what the scope is going to be.

[pancakemix]

I think a stickied "recommended reading" list would be highly beneficial. A compendium of newsletter articles plus anything we find useful is something that will help out beginners who stumble upon our humble forum.