Conquer Club

I've had the idea for a while to build a Risk board using hex tiles. Us old-time PC strategy gamers and the die-hard tabletop gamers will know these well.

The design I put down is the same one I've had in mind for a couple of years; once I actually drew it I felt like it was a good fit. I went with a fairly straight-forward design that should be newbie-friendly but deep enough that experienced players can enjoy it.

Being a computer guy, I immediately connected "hex" with "hexadecimal". So I went with a hex number scheme on the territory names and took it a step further by having the text look similar to an old-fashioned command line console.

Considerations: there are currently 49 territories; 7 "continents" of 7 each. That could be reduced to a more even 42 by removing the center tile from each continent, but that would also change the mechanics of the map and possibly necessitate other revisions. I'd love some input here.

The design is rather spartan at the moment. I'm not much of an artist and could use some ideas on how to make it more visually appealing. I built it using Inkscape so it's easily editable. Colors and text can be changed very quickly. It also exports as a .png with a transparent background, so a new background can be slipped in under it in GimpShop with very little effort.

So here's a shot of the map as it stands now:

edit: hotlinking that image host didn't work. Here's a URL for now:

http://x018.uploaderx.net/x/hexed.jpg

The host is temporary until I can get my new web server to behave.

Is this a map I should continue working on, or shall I just toss it out and wait until better inspiration strikes me?

it's almost identical to chinese checkers

You should continue but it should be huge, with hex being the theme you could easily have 600+ territories if you make them just big enough to hold the army numbers, without breaking the foundry size rules. (Although almost everyone breaks the foundry size rules)

DiM wrote:it's almost identical to chinese checkers

That occured to me. It does look very similar, but I'd wager that it plays out in a very different way.

Coleman wrote:You should continue but it should be huge, with hex being the theme you could easily have 600+ territories if you make them just big enough to hold the army numbers, without breaking the foundry size rules. (Although almost everyone breaks the foundry size rules)

Interesting idea.

I played with it a bit, and it's possible to fit fifteen hex tiles in a triangle and arrange six triangles into a hex formation for 90.

I could go with an irregular arrangement, but that will take a lot of work and I don't have the time at this very minute to even experiment

DiM wrote:it's almost identical to chinese checkers

thats what i'm thinking too...

The notion of tesselated hexagonal countries is not a bad one. However, it's also not a map. It's just a gimmick. Gimmicks can be a great way to help flesh out an incomplete map idea. They can also be a useful inspiration that the rest of a map might eventually grow up around. But a gimmick isn't itself a map.

For example, one thing that tesselated hexagons makes me think of is a honeycomb. So you might use this to do a map based on a beehive. And instead of just making all of the continents identical seven-country blocks, you could grow them organically around the concept of a beehive, making them different shapes and sizes, but still having them all fitted together as contiguous groups of hexagons.

And that's just one direction you could go in. I'm sure there are plenty of others. Maybe something computer-related, like a VR environment. Or a school of magic (I'm sure the number six could be made useful in an environment like that -- circles and stars and so forth). Or... well, I'm sure there are plenty of ideas that'd be compatible with a grid of hexagons. Ideas other than just "a grid of hexagons". And once you have an idea, then you can start figuring out a map based on it.

And if it later turns out that the idea doesn't really need the hexagons after all, then you can always save them for later on -- for the next map you design.

Coleman wrote:You should continue but it should be huge, with hex being the theme you could easily have 600+ territories if you make them just big enough to hold the army numbers, without breaking the foundry size rules. (Although almost everyone breaks the foundry size rules)

I think this would be awesome... The Continents could be designated by Groupings of similar colored armies... the larger the area covered the bigger the continent value...Is it Possible??

Keredrex wrote:

Coleman wrote:You should continue but it should be huge, with hex being the theme you could easily have 600+ territories if you make them just big enough to hold the army numbers, without breaking the foundry size rules. (Although almost everyone breaks the foundry size rules)

I think this would be awesome... The Continents could be designated by Groupings of similar colored armies... the larger the area covered the bigger the continent value...Is it Possible??

If I read that right, are you thinking about a map that gives bonuses based on the number of adjacent territories held?

So like one great big field of hex tiles, and find a way to give bonuses for holding connected tiles...hmm. That would probably take some work by a map guru since this is my first attempt. But I'm game on trying to figure it out with some help.

The largest I could see working would be a hex map somewhere around 20x20. That would give you 400 tiles. You would have some truly epic games on a grid that size.

The idea of giving bonuses based on connected territories really piques my interest. If/when I get to the point in developing a map that I'm learning the coding part, I'll have to look into that.

Jota wrote:The notion of tesselated hexagonal countries is not a bad one. However, it's also not a map. It's just a gimmick. Gimmicks can be a great way to help flesh out an incomplete map idea. They can also be a useful inspiration that the rest of a map might eventually grow up around. But a gimmick isn't itself a map.

For example, one thing that tesselated hexagons makes me think of is a honeycomb. So you might use this to do a map based on a beehive. And instead of just making all of the continents identical seven-country blocks, you could grow them organically around the concept of a beehive, making them different shapes and sizes, but still having them all fitted together as contiguous groups of hexagons.

And that's just one direction you could go in. I'm sure there are plenty of others. Maybe something computer-related, like a VR environment. Or a school of magic (I'm sure the number six could be made useful in an environment like that -- circles and stars and so forth). Or... well, I'm sure there are plenty of ideas that'd be compatible with a grid of hexagons. Ideas other than just "a grid of hexagons". And once you have an idea, then you can start figuring out a map based on it.

And if it later turns out that the idea doesn't really need the hexagons after all, then you can always save them for later on -- for the next map you design.

I disagree on it being a gimmick. It's based on the design of classic war games. The current image is just a start and the computer theme was just the first thing to come to mind, but I think the concept of just doing a simple hex tileset is sound. Maps don't *have* to have some elaborate theme or be artistic to be good maps.

What's wrong with "just a hex grid"? Does it make the game less fun? Is the map less playable?

Floppie wrote:I disagree on it being a gimmick. It's based on the design of classic war games. The current image is just a start and the computer theme was just the first thing to come to mind, but I think the concept of just doing a simple hex tileset is sound. Maps don't *have* to have some elaborate theme or be artistic to be good maps.

What's wrong with "just a hex grid"? Does it make the game less fun? Is the map less playable?

The big difference is that while those maps were just a slab of hexes, all the ones I played had terrain features on some hexes that made it more strategic, ie forests that blocked LoS, roads for quicker movement, that sort of thing is what you're lacking here, I know we're limited in what the xml can do but if you use your imagination I'm sure you can come up with something.

Floppie wrote:I disagree on it being a gimmick.

Then what you and I consider to be a "gimmick" are probably two different things. I consider "based on a Crossword puzzle" to be just a gimmick. "A map with extra bonuses for holding capital cities" is a gimmick. Heck, even "Ancient Greece" is a gimmick, when you get right down to it. But all of those have had actual game maps developed around them, with distinctive layouts and continent structures and gameplay.

Floppie wrote:It's based on the design of classic war games.

I'm guessing you're talking about turn-based strategy board games, which I admit I haven't played many of. But I suspect that those were generally more than just identical units battling across completely uniform and symmetric terrain?

The current image is just a start and the computer theme was just the first thing to come to mind, but I think the concept of just doing a simple hex tileset is sound. Maps don't *have* to have some elaborate theme or be artistic to be good maps.

The theme doesn't have to be elaborate, but I think there should be some theme, really. Even if it's a completely simple or abstract one. (I'm the person who made the Crossword map, after all.)

What's wrong with "just a hex grid"? Does it make the game less fun? Is the map less playable?

I think so, yeah. We don't have fancy unit types or movement rules or emergent behaviors in this game. We have maps and continents and borders and bonuses. Not having any variation between continents or borders -- making the map seven identical and symmetrical continents, laid out in a symmetrical pattern -- severely limits how much variation in gameplay there can be (unless there's some other gimmick added in to make things more interesting).

I can see room for a map like that, certainly, for the sake of experimentation if nothing else, provided it has some theme to justify it. But there already is one: Chinese Checkers. If we went with the map that you posted an image of, I don't think it'd really be adding anything new to the site.

I do want you to understand that I'm not trying to discourage you. If I weresn't interested in your idea, I wouldn't have written that original response, nor this one. I only wrote it because I do think it's a worthwhile gimmick, and I think that you could really do something fun with it. If I weren't interested, I would have just ignored it completely. I am all for gimmicks. It's just that they need to developed into mature maps in order for them to the bear fruit they deserve.

lol, my first thought was that this looks kinda like KLOBBER's map

Coleman wrote:You should continue but it should be huge, with hex being the theme you could easily have 600+ territories if you make them just big enough to hold the army numbers, without breaking the foundry size rules. (Although almost everyone breaks the foundry size rules)

Yea, that could be a lot of fun.

(And yes, I do think that making it hundreds of hexes in size and giving bonuses based on holding large masses of contiguous territory would definitely make things more interesting, and could be a great step towards making the map something more than "just a hex grid".)

This guy called KLOBBER has already tried it but he was a arse. TRy going through some threads in the map foundry to find that thread. It was quite a popular thread so there must have been about 10 pages!!!

Think it was called honeycomb

hulmey wrote:This guy called KLOBBER has already tried it but he was a arse. TRy going through some threads in the map foundry to find that thread. It was quite a popular thread so there must have been about 10 pages!!!

Think it was called honeycomb

Well at least when i said that it was like KLOBBER's, i wasnt so mean to tell him that it was popular and that he should look it up!

shame on you hulmey!

Jota wrote:(And yes, I do think that making it hundreds of hexes in size and giving bonuses based on holding large masses of contiguous territory would definitely make things more interesting, and could be a great step towards making the map something more than "just a hex grid".)

I'm definitely stuck on this idea now. The big question is, is it possible to do this? And then it follows to figure out how many contiguous territories should give how many armies.

In a few days I'll find the time to figure out just how small I can get the hex tiles, and how many will fit on a map.

If it is possible then a whole new Theme of Maps can be made....There could be a map based on Viruses... Computer Or Biological... It could even be mingled with other options.. Imgine having this style of play along with a map that also has designated Continents within that also give bonuses...
... It would be awesome if In a 2 team game one team gets bonuses based on Viral Outbreak aand the other only gets bonuses from continents fighting off the Plague…………………
………… O yeah That Is a New Idea and Very Cool………… IS IT POSSIBLE

^^^^

Not being mean old boy...Just letting him know that a map has already been started identical to this (although its now offically abdoned).

Jota should look the thread up and have a look at it....I aint going to look through all the threads thats for sure. Maybe u would like to kal?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 86&start=0

That was a CC experience of a lifetime

wonderful thread!

KLOBBER wrote: I personally find repetition to be annoying and possibly even a sign of compromised intelligence

..and that´s an answer to several people having similar opinions

There are exactly two entities in the universe; me and everyone else.. and if the part of the universe that isn´t me displays the same pattern or dares to utter a similar opinion more than once then it must be stupid!
Klobber must be Narcissus himself - I think I love him!


I´m quite sure Floppie will do a better job than Klobber.

another vote for the HUGE map - I wouldn´t even try playing a small or medium-sized map with this theme/gimmick/whatever but I would give a large one a chance at least.. (and perhaps get hooked if I enjoyed it)

gimil wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19886&start=0

That was a CC experience of a lifetime

Even though i agree in the similarity.. I actually liked that map Honeycommbs......But it didn't go the direction it needed to....I think this idea can work.....If it is done right....It does'nt have to be a map of just Hexes..... Why can't there be Random borders..... By way of Msssive neutral armies.....It could be made to basically change with each new game by droppping neutrals with triple digit armies which woud become walls.... and even incorporate Neutrals with much less... Like 5 to act as doors.. you can even through in some one way attacks and Bombardments.. I think that if the xml can pull it off this would be Outstanding.... IS IT POSSIBLE

This is possible with the XML. and the idea of 100 armies representing a wall rather than having impassable terrs sounds new and different

Jota wrote:

Floppie wrote:I disagree on it being a gimmick.

Then what you and I consider to be a "gimmick" are probably two different things. I consider "based on a Crossword puzzle" to be just a gimmick. "A map with extra bonuses for holding capital cities" is a gimmick. Heck, even "Ancient Greece" is a gimmick, when you get right down to it. But all of those have had actual game maps developed around them, with distinctive layouts and continent structures and gameplay.

Floppie wrote:It's based on the design of classic war games.

I'm guessing you're talking about turn-based strategy board games, which I admit I haven't played many of. But I suspect that those were generally more than just identical units battling across completely uniform and symmetric terrain?

The current image is just a start and the computer theme was just the first thing to come to mind, but I think the concept of just doing a simple hex tileset is sound. Maps don't *have* to have some elaborate theme or be artistic to be good maps.

The theme doesn't have to be elaborate, but I think there should be some theme, really. Even if it's a completely simple or abstract one. (I'm the person who made the Crossword map, after all.)

What's wrong with "just a hex grid"? Does it make the game less fun? Is the map less playable?

I think so, yeah. We don't have fancy unit types or movement rules or emergent behaviors in this game. We have maps and continents and borders and bonuses. Not having any variation between continents or borders -- making the map seven identical and symmetrical continents, laid out in a symmetrical pattern -- severely limits how much variation in gameplay there can be (unless there's some other gimmick added in to make things more interesting).

I can see room for a map like that, certainly, for the sake of experimentation if nothing else, provided it has some theme to justify it. But there already is one: Chinese Checkers. If we went with the map that you posted an image of, I don't think it'd really be adding anything new to the site.

I do want you to understand that I'm not trying to discourage you. If I weresn't interested in your idea, I wouldn't have written that original response, nor this one. I only wrote it because I do think it's a worthwhile gimmick, and I think that you could really do something fun with it. If I weren't interested, I would have just ignored it completely. I am all for gimmicks. It's just that they need to developed into mature maps in order for them to the bear fruit they deserve.

I think this map could have lots of interesting games playout on it. It sucks when your playing a map and 1 player starts with almost a whole continent and he wins becuase he got lucky at the beginning. but with a perfectly symetrical map it could be very interesting and no one would get "lucky" off the start. it would have a lot more of a strategy-wise map

if anyone is interested, a hex based map is underway at
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20723
Battle of Actium is basically an experiment and works well for the style of mpa that it is, but it does show that some things are possible outside of the "honeycomb" experience!