Conquer Club

Sirius Kase wrote:

hopalong wrote:l
also have these backlogged.....

hopalong's games all use the faulty xml file, so get familiar with dolomite's diff file posted above. I'm going to try not to help out in the game chat.

cant we just delete all those waiting games, then, with old code?

If you upload new files and maps the engine should use the new ones.

dolomite13 wrote:I did a diff of th xml the site currently uses and a file marked 307b that I uploaded in 2016...

=D13=

Awesome, glad to see this is back. I always liked this map.

So has this been solved?

I'm using this . https://www.conquerclub.com/api.php?mode=maplist
to determine which xml is being used. as of 30 seconds ago, using Krazy_Kingdoms6.xml
I'm pretty sure that's the buggy version, but I could be wrong.
But, they might be changing the link soon to the newer version. It's not my call, but it's been discussed.

Here's another way to get same info, it's shorter
https://www.conquerclub.com/api.php?mod ... 20Kingdoms

I personally can play with either version. There's even a possibility that the problem will go away when the files are linked up the right way. As long as we are aware of the differences, we should be able to deal with it. So, I think we should go ahead and get started. Dealing with the xml is more interesting than waiting.

HitRed wrote:If you upload new files and maps the engine should use the new ones.

Are you sure? This might have updated somewhere along the lines, but I remember back in the day there was an issue with a live version of Das Schloss. Essentially they had to close the map, make sure all games finished, THEN they could upload the new XML.

I could be out of date on this though. Maybe Ian would know?

TheForgivenOne wrote:

HitRed wrote:If you upload new files and maps the engine should use the new ones.

Are you sure? This might have updated somewhere along the lines, but I remember back in the day there was an issue with a live version of Das Schloss. Essentially they had to close the map, make sure all games finished, THEN they could upload the new XML.

I could be out of date on this though. Maybe Ian would know?

I'm playing Pi with Capt B and updates to the map and XML occurr during gameplay. This is in the BETA site. I've never seen so many postings about the foundry.

HitRed

HitRed wrote:

TheForgivenOne wrote:

HitRed wrote:If you upload new files and maps the engine should use the new ones.

Are you sure? This might have updated somewhere along the lines, but I remember back in the day there was an issue with a live version of Das Schloss. Essentially they had to close the map, make sure all games finished, THEN they could upload the new XML.

I could be out of date on this though. Maybe Ian would know?

I'm playing Pi with Capt B and updates to the map and XML occurr during gameplay. This is in the BETA site. I've never seen so many postings about the foundry.

HitRed

Ah, gotcha. That's the Beta site though. I believe the main site may work differently. Also, please note I thought you meant updating the files on the main site.

But I could be out to lunch, as this is maybe my third ever post in the foundry.

xml version 7b loaded successfully on date 2019-01-06 at time 07:59 CCT!

games which have already started will continue under the new xml, but with existing troop counts unchanged.

Sirius Kase wrote:Wizard is far and away the best.

is this still true?

ian.

iancanton wrote:xml version 7b loaded successfully on date 2019-01-06 at time 07:59 CCT!

games which have already started will continue under the new xml, but with existing troop counts unchanged.

Sirius Kase wrote:Wizard is far and away the best.

is this still true?

ian.

I don't know. I'm hoping some of the waiting games will fill, but I might need to experiment on the beta site some more.

Sirius Kase wrote: Wizard is far and away the best.

Wizard is powerful but I am not sure how it is the best. It has a bonus of +2 for every set of two territories (max +8) you have that border the towers. And when you have control of two towers (4 territories) all of the territories that border the towers are adjacent. Yes their territories are down the center of the map so easier to get to. It is important that the other players take and maintain territories that border the towers to slow the Wizard. M2 should be easy for Dwellers to maintain and S2 for Demonic. Undead and Miners both have incentive to grab two territories for their bonus.

Total Bonuses

• Aquatic: +1 for every two territories that border a sea. Can also conquer seas. Max bonus +12
• Barbarians: +1 for every three basic land. Favored territories are adjacent to horde space. Max bonus +10
• Cosmic: +1 for every radiation territory. +1 for every set of radiation territories. All radiation are adjacent and adjacent to forbidden lands. Max bonus +5
• Demons: +1 for each skull, +1 for every two skulls. Skulls are adjacent to underworld. Max bonus +6
• Druids: +1 for every set of jungle, forrest, or jungle/forrest. Max bonus +8
• Dwellers: +1 for each cave, +2 when you get to 4 caves. Caves are adjacent. Max bonus +6
• Elementalists: +1 for sets of volcanic, tundra, tundra/volcanic. Max bonus +8
• Fanatics: +2 for 2 favored, +2 for 3 favored, +4 for 4 favored territories. Max bonus +8
• Miners: +2 for 2 mines +2 for 3 mines, +4 for 4 mines. Max Bonus +8
• Undead: +2 for two tombsones, +2 for 3 tombstones, +4 for 4 tombstones. Max bonus +8
• WIzards: +2 for every set of two territories you have that border the towers. towers territories can become adjacent. Max bonus +8

Originally I had proposed these changes and it would have probably made everything more even. But I lost all of the photoshop files and would have needed to redo the map from scratch as this one did not pass the art approval. https://i.imgur.com/MVVPgsw.png

=D13=

Oh yeah, I was looking forward to those changes. Especially the reworked Cosmic.

One key legibility idea: right now, the Aquatic bonus is kind of obscure. Instead of -> [sea], which is hard to parse, could it read [shore] -> [sea] instead? That should be clearer, and easy enough to fix with simple photoshopping without requiring the original .psd.

The fact that Map inspect cannot work with the if/then conditional adjacent territories makes me say this map should never leave BETA. It doesn't work correctly with the site. That isn't the map's fault, but how can you expect people to understand the complexities of the map, when the site is actively working against that understanding? And the map isn't simple enough to look over that. It's a ridiculous map in itself. So, this needs to be perpetually in BETA or scrapped.

About balancing, I think we should just play for awhile. People can't give out too many details of a game in progress, especially if it's foggy. Hopefully, as games conclude, some will post about their experience as whatever species they were.

Aside, Alien Overrun looks interesting. Is it available? I can see how that makes you less available here. Good luck!

This chat is from Game 17765031

2019-02-01 08:15:51 - hopalong: red, green, yellow, and pink are getting wet bonus
2019-02-02 23:14:06 - MGSteve: Red has 2 terts next to Sea 3 for 1 troop. Green has 3 next to Sea 2 for 1 troop.
2019-02-02 23:16:48 - MGSteve: Yellow has 3 next to Sea 3 and pink has 4 terts next to Sea 1 and 2 next to Sea 4 for a total of 3.
2019-02-03 01:42:31 - Sirius Kase [self]: snapshot round 9
2019-02-04 20:01:44 - Sirius Kase: i'm not getting aquatic bonus
2019-02-04 20:04:21 - Sirius Kase: You must be using Map Inspect, map tab. If you look at log, you will get correct information. Map inspect doesn't understand the xml.
2019-02-04 20:06:01 - Sirius Kase: The game uses features, and it uses them properly, but MI doesn't know that code.
2019-02-04 20:08:45 - Sirius Kase: Adjacent to seas lights up when you are adjacent to a sea, but you only get the bonus if you have the aquatic special feature.
2019-02-04 20:10:14 - Sirius Kase: Stats is also wrong because it is part of Map Inspect. Again, compare to game log to verify.
2019-02-04 20:12:12 - Sirius Kase: I'll post this into the thread, but it isn't really a problem with the map, it's a problem with Map Inspect.
2019-02-04 20:19:39 - Sirius Kase: Fanatics has a similar problem. Take a look at Pink, it appears he has 2 points for fanatics and 1 point for aquatics, but if you look at log, he doesn't have either.
2019-02-04 20:20:53 - Sirius Kase: this is a sunny game so it's safe to discuss in forum
2019-02-04 20:24:14 - Sirius Kase: what is strange is blue is adj to two seas but bonus doesn't light up

I noted a similar problem before with fanatics. Map Inspect sees a bonus that player shouldn't and doesn't get according to Game Log. IMO, this is a Map Inspect problem which I'd like to see fixed. It's confusing.

Game 17765022

This is a sunny game in progress. It's barely started and someone noticed the problem with Map Inspect. I think this problem can be fixed by modifying the XML. I'm not volunteering to do it. I'd like to hear from dolomite. I've described the affect in my previous post. I believe if certain continents are split into two continents, with the normal territories in a continent with a 0 bonus and that continent is combined with the special territory, then that continent gets the bonus. As it is, the bonus lights up even when the special territory isn't owned. The game understands that a bonus isn't earned, but Map Inspect says that a bonus is earned. Take a look at the code for fanatics. It's a good example, but there are other examples, so it will take work in several parts of the XML.

If dolomite isn't available, I'll consider it. I can read the code, and I have that idea, but I don't know if I can fix and test.

Game 17765030 . Another sunny game just started. I should be getting my head back into this. I'm volunteering to help or be helped with the XML.

chapcrap wrote:The fact that Map inspect cannot work with the if/then conditional adjacent territories makes me say this map should never leave BETA. It doesn't work correctly with the site. That isn't the map's fault, but how can you expect people to understand the complexities of the map, when the site is actively working against that understanding? And the map isn't simple enough to look over that. It's a ridiculous map in itself. So, this needs to be perpetually in BETA or scrapped.

Every single map with conditional borders causes this. It's a bug in map inspect, not the map, that has been around ever since conditional borders were added, what, over a decade ago now? If you're going to ban this map over it you ought to ban dozens if not hundreds of others that also have conditional borders.

dolomite13 wrote:

Sirius Kase wrote: Wizard is far and away the best.

Wizard is powerful but I am not sure how it is the best. It has a bonus of +2 for every set of two territories (max +8) you have that border the towers. And when you have control of two towers (4 territories) all of the territories that border the towers are adjacent. Yes their territories are down the center of the map so easier to get to. It is important that the other players take and maintain territories that border the towers to slow the Wizard. M2 should be easy for Dwellers to maintain and S2 for Demonic. Undead and Miners both have incentive to grab two territories for their bonus.

Wizard is the best because it can be attacked from every kingdoms.
Not true for any other special feature.
Also wizard opens up a new connection, to extra blood towers, by taking two adjacent regions. That's the easiest one ( only dwellers is easier) to get extra connection.
For the demonic and barbarian you first need to go through a 5 neutrals, and it only allows you to attack 3 extra regions.
With wizards you can take 6 more regions.
And last, wizard give you a

Dwellers sucks because the bonus doesn't work properly ( at least last time I tried ) but otherwise it's 2nd best bonus. Could be almost as good as wizards if you fixed it.

Undead and miners suck big time, by the time you can collect their bonus it's too late. There is way too many neutrals to take to get a +2.


I am speaking about 1vs1 ( or 2vs2 ).
In multiplayer games it's usually a mess anyway regardless of your special feature because the map is quite small.

Note that we already discussed the at length earlier in the thread. ( years ago now).

hi !
Why this map is not over ? It's i a very good map !

chapcrap wrote:The fact that Map inspect cannot work with the if/then conditional adjacent territories makes me say this map should never leave BETA. It doesn't work correctly with the site. That isn't the map's fault, but how can you expect people to understand the complexities of the map, when the site is actively working against that understanding? And the map isn't simple enough to look over that. It's a ridiculous map in itself. So, this needs to be perpetually in BETA or scrapped.

Map Inspect doesn't correctly report your bonus with Czechoslovak Fragmentation, either, but we eventually quenched that.

Like you said, it's not the mapmaker's fault that the site doesn't fix Map Inspect. Eventually the knowledge needed to play these maps gets passed around.

We can also write a warning message to say that Map Inspect don't work because there are conditionnal adjacent territories.

Not a message written in the rules that no one would see, but a warning that the site adminisrator must do !! Easy to do

Lancelot du Lac wrote:We can also write a warning message to say that Map Inspect don't work because there are conditionnal adjacent territories.

Not a message written in the rules that no one would see, but a warning that the site adminisrator must do !! Easy to do

I think it would be easier to fix the Map Inspect script at that point...

Just one slot open left to fill in Game 18523841!