The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

[Aleena]

I love it, let's play!

One Question though - how do you get to the Earth Crystal if the only path leading their is destroyed...
(Are you jumping across that chasm with aid by that green monster?
Or is their a teleporting section somewhere that I've over looked..?

[Blakkrose]

...
B) I think it is important that the map features (monsters, gems, etc...) don;t overlap the map connections. Both monsters I have circles on the map overlap the connection and may be hard for someone to see.
...

Do you really think that there is confusion within the territory boundaries?

I love it, let's play!

One Question though - how do you get to the Earth Crystal if the only path leading their is destroyed...
(Are you jumping across that chasm with aid by that green monster?
Or is their a teleporting section somewhere that I've over looked..?

As Aleena made ​​me realize there is confusion with the Jinn Dao and the two sides of the chasm. SO I added a track to eliminate any doubt.

[iancanton]

at the moment, the most valuable gems are the 17th to 23rd, followed by the 3rd and 4th, then the 5th to 7th. for the gem bonus, i suggest a table like the one below, with the gems becoming progressively more valuable:

2 gems +1
4 gems +3
7 gems +7
11 gems +13
16 gems +21
23 gems +33.

a + sign and the bonus value is clear enough, with no need to include the word army. the text is already very small and this is a good way to cut down the space used by the legend, especially on the small map.

the teleport figures are so small that they look like blobs of radioactive jelly. is it possible to draw them more like cartoon figures, to make their shapes stand out more?

all teleports and crystals appear to be guarded by a monster, while marine serpent has n10 neutrals because it's guarding the only way to reach the temple of jinn, which is good.

i still think that, for victory, control all monsters is better than kill all monsters because ur opponent can kill a monster that u've killed already, so u have to kill it a third time (without losing any more monsters) to win.

nice work!

ian.

[Blakkrose]

at the moment, the most valuable gems are the 17th to 23rd, followed by the 3rd and 4th, then the 5th to 7th. for the gem bonus, i suggest a table like the one below, with the gems becoming progressively more valuable:

2 gems +1
4 gems +3
7 gems +7
11 gems +13
16 gems +21
23 gems +33.

a + sign and the bonus value is clear enough, with no need to include the word army. the text is already very small and this is a good way to cut down the space used by the legend, especially on the small map.

the teleport figures are so small that they look like blobs of radioactive jelly. is it possible to draw them more like cartoon figures, to make their shapes stand out more?

all teleports and crystals appear to be guarded by a monster, while marine serpent has n10 neutrals because it's guarding the only way to reach the temple of jinn, which is good.

i still think that, for victory, control all monsters is better than kill all monsters because ur opponent can kill a monster that u've killed already, so u have to kill it a third time (without losing any more monsters) to win.

nice work!

ian.

I followed the suggestions of Ian.
I changed the bonus for the gems.
I also changed the graphics of the Legend enlarging the font and remodeling of the background palette.
I removed the glow around the teleport and enhanced brightness. In this way the teleport 5 mingled with the statues cat I consequently deleted.
I've adjusted the brightness of the entire map according to the monitor of my computer at home (until now I had been working from work PC)
Tell me what you think: is the darker version better?

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

I have stickied this for now. I'll stamp it in a couple days.

[EricPhail]

Personally I much prefer the darker map, both stylisiticly and in legibility

Right to minor corrections:
In the legend:
Territory groups has temple of Jinn zonet (instead of zone)
Victory conditions should be temple of Jinn (rather than on Jinn)


General suggestions:
The marine serpent is the odd monster out in that it lacks a fantasy/mythology based name.
My suggestion would be Jormungand (one of loki's children from norse mythology).

Other than that looking good.

[Aleena]

Disagree with the naming issue of the marine serpent...

Any name is good for me, including "Jormungand" - but Mummy, Efreet, Djinn, and Ghost for examples are not names of mythological creatures, they are just a name of a type of a creature, just as marine serpent is....

So, I'm fine either way... What ever the designer thinks is best, is what I'd support...

It's the difference of calling a creature with snake like hair a Gorgon or a Medusa... A Gorgon is what it is as a Marine Serpent is what it is in this game, while Medusa would be more who it is, as Jormungand is who it could be...

So if you change Marine Serpent to Jormungand - then who is that ghost, or that mummy? I think it is fine as is...

[EricPhail]

The thing is: I feel (and you might disagree) that marine serpent is too generic (perhaps on the order of having the mummy be undead rather than a mummy). Jormungand or perhaps more likely jormungandr (generic for the offspring of jormungand) feels more in line with the other names, but in all honesty that was merely the first suggestion I could think of, and that really any less generic name would work.

Going back to my earlier comparison marine serpent could be any aquatic snake-like creature, in the same way that undead could be a skeleton, zombie, mummy, vampire etc. thus why I would prefer something more specific. One other way of putting it is this all the others would make somewhat acceptable movie titles (the Mummy, the Efreet, the Djinn) but Marine Serpent doesn't in that same way (for me at least).

Finally, this will probably be my last post on this as I don't want to derail the thread over something as relatively minor as a territory name (it is after all just my feeling at the moment it seems)

[Blakkrose]

Disagree with the naming issue of the marine serpent...
Any name is good for me, including "Jormungand" - but Mummy, Efreet, Djinn, and Ghost for examples are not names of mythological creatures, they are just a name of a type of a creature, just as marine serpent is....

You're wrong becouse Efreet (or Ifret, Afrit, Afret) is a supernatural creature in Arabic and Islamic folklore. He is in a class of infernal Jinn. There are several Jinn: Fire Jinn (Efreet), Water Jinn (Marid), Air Jinn (Djinn), Earth Jinn (Dao) and a hybrid Jinn which contains a bit 'all of the above characteristics
(Wikipedia source)

I wanted to use monsters taken from the Arabic culture and mythology because it is closer to the style of the Egyptian temple that I'm representing.
I needed other creatures and I chose a mummy (in theme with the sarcophagus), a ghost (also in theme) and a sea serpent took the previous version of the map because I liked the break level with a bridge and a lake.

If you do not like the names "Mummy", "Ghost" and "Marine Serpent", we can find others but always taken from the Arabic culture and mythology.

Jormungand (one of loki's children from norse mythology) is taken from Nordic mythology and is not in theme.

[Aleena]

In that case may I suggest the "Serpent Apep"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apep

Pictured here under a boat on an egyptian wall art fighting with RA..

[Blakkrose]

Searching on google I found Iblis, present in Islamic culture
"In Islam Iblis is a jinn who refused to bow to Adam (Adem)".
(wikipedia source)

Do you like it?

Click image to enlarge.

I also changed the legend as suggested by EricPhail

[Blakkrose]

In that case may I suggest the "Serpent Apep"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apep

Pictured here under a boat on an egyptian wall art fighting with RA..

I am considering your idea ...
Should I change the graphics or the snake is fine as it is?

[Aleena]

I personally like the serpent better - but your new one is cool too - so - feel free to use either - or take a pole from more of the community.

[Blakkrose]

I personally like the serpent better - but your new one is cool too - so - feel free to use either - or take a pole from more of the community.

Well, I ask to the community: you prefer Apep with the graphics of Marine Serpent or Iblis?

I eliminated the Mummy and the Ghost.
I plugged in Acolyte (follower of the fire element) and a Ghul (the strongest of the Jinn)

[isaiah40]

One thing you need to do is to please keep the title in this format so it will be easier for people to see changes:
The Temple of Jinn [12/08/2013] V2 pg 4 - The "V" for what version you are on and the page it is on. It helps us carto's to go directly to the page you rmost recent update is on, and when we are comparing versions, we can say "On version 2 you had this ...." It makes it easier on all of us.

So that being said, here is your shiny new stamp!!

[Blakkrose]

One thing you need to do is to please keep the title in this format so it will be easier for people to see changes:
The Temple of Jinn [12/08/2013] V2 pg 4 - The "V" for what version you are on and the page it is on. It helps us carto's to go directly to the page you rmost recent update is on, and when we are comparing versions, we can say "On version 2 you had this ...." It makes it easier on all of us.

So that being said, here is your shiny new stamp!!

OK

Now what should I do to have the second stamp?

[isaiah40]

Now you will be working on the game-play aspect. iancanton does the game-play, and he has already made a few suggestions. The draft stamp is normally the fastest stamp everyone receives, because now we get down to the nitty picky. As of right now, as graphics CA, I'm not seeing a lot graphics wise, but when you get into graphics then I will along with RedBaron0 take a close look at it.

[koontz1973]

Blackrose, nice to see this worked on. Some things from me, can we get the territory groups into different colours so as to make it easier to find on the board. In the victory condition, you say take over the monsters and the temple of jinn, does that include also TJ4 & TJ5?

[EricPhail]

Iblis, so much Iblis, that new graphic is cool

Assuming the start positions are the one with the blue 88s it seems they are in need of a look wrt gameplay and balance some of them look to be much better locations (closer to the area bonuses: FJ21 is much closer to fire crystal, Wj15 the water crystal and worst of all AJ2 who has the shortest path to Air, and the temple) thus allowing them quicker access to the zone bonuses and associated bombardments

Oh one other thing both ends of each teleport have the same name which seems odd perhaps T1a, T1b, T2a .... etc

[cairnswk]

Blakkrose..congrats on your draft stamp...impressive graphics indeed
I have taken your large image and reduced it to small size. At this very early stage your might want to check:
1. that to determine if the 20x20 or 22x22 army holder circles are going to fit and be seen adequately, and
2. if you were to downscale the image to small size automatically (not suggesting this is how you work though) which will save you heaps of time - how small the legend instruction text is going to be and whether that will be reasonable for players to read as legible. For me, as this reduced size, the small text is barely legible at all.
Just a couple of things to keep in mind along the way.
Soutien!

[Blakkrose]

Blackrose, nice to see this worked on. Some things from me, can we get the territory groups into different colours so as to make it easier to find on the board. In the victory condition, you say take over the monsters and the temple of jinn, does that include also TJ4 & TJ5?

Thanks.
-The territory zones are already colored differently from the rest of the level (maybe I should reinforce colors)
-Yes, the Temple of Jinn consists of 5 territories, as you can read in the legend

[Blakkrose]

Iblis, so much Iblis, that new graphic is cool

Assuming the start positions are the one with the blue 88s it seems they are in need of a look wrt gameplay and balance some of them look to be much better locations (closer to the area bonuses: FJ21 is much closer to fire crystal, Wj15 the water crystal and worst of all AJ2 who has the shortest path to Air, and the temple) thus allowing them quicker access to the zone bonuses and associated bombardments

Oh one other thing both ends of each teleport have the same name which seems odd perhaps T1a, T1b, T2a .... etc

Let examine the distances:

1. -FJ21 is attached to the Jinn that protects the Fire Crystal,
2. -WJ15 is 2 territories from the Jinn that protects the Water Crystal,
3. -AJ2 is 2 territories from the Jinn that protects the Air Crystal,
4. -The temple is accessible only through the teleport 3 that is protected by the most powerful monster of the map: Iblis.

"What do you suggest?"

Consider that I have placed the 8 starting points so that they are not too close together.
Here are the shorter distances:

1. AJ2 - AJ11 (through the teleport1): distance 10 territories
2. AJ2 - EJ22 (through the teleport1): distance 10 territories
3. AJ11 - EJ22 : distance 8 territories
4. EJ22 - FJ7 : distance 9 territories
5. EJ22 - WJ23 (through the teleport2): distance 10 territories
6. FJ7 - WJ15 : distance 7 territories
7. Fj7 - FJ21 (through the teleport5): distance 14 territories
8. FJ21 - EJ17 (through the teleport4): distance 10 territories

I did not consider the distance when there is a monster in the middle.

"Think that it is possible to place the 8 starting points at equal distance between them and the Jinn that protect Crystal zones?"

For the teleports you're right, I'll edit them in T1a and T1b, T2a and T2b, etc.

[Blakkrose]

Here are today's updates:

1. I reinforced the colors of the bonus zones,
2. I touched up the legend decreasing the number of words and enlarging the font,
3. I changed the labels for the teleports.

Click image to enlarge.

"Looking at the legend I begin to think that with the character so much I should change font because I do not like what's more."

So I changed the font. Here is the result:

Click image to enlarge.

I also changed all the labels and appearance of the pyramid and columns and added some background decoration.

I am always available to the movements of the starting points

[koontz1973]

Blackrose, nice to see this worked on. Some things from me, can we get the territory groups into different colours so as to make it easier to find on the board. In the victory condition, you say take over the monsters and the temple of jinn, does that include also TJ4 & TJ5?

Thanks.
-The territory zones are already colored differently from the rest of the level (maybe I should reinforce colors)

Not what I meant. Colour each one a different colour and use those colours in the legend to make finding them really easy. This will help out the non English speaking players a lot but also in speed games, it will allow players to easily identify regions on the board.

-Yes, the Temple of Jinn consists of 5 territories, as you can read in the legend

But it is not what is said in the victory condition (lose the "s"). Again, this is just to make the board easy to understand.

What are all the blue regions (T3b for example)?

All monsters seem to be a 5 neutral, why is Iblis a 10?

[Aleena]

someone was concerned about the different distances from starting points to Victory condition Temple...
Think it was EricPhil....

Well... what you can do (instead of changing the map - or moving the starting location) is you can make weaker monsters and more bonuses along the trail for the players that are farther away... And make the players with a shorter path - to have stronger monsters, and or no bonuses along the way - unless they go out of their way for them...

If done mathematically you can balance out the board with out any major changes, just changes in variable values...

Or you can make it no matter where they start they need to control something in all four corners of the map to open passage to the temple... Maybe like the gems..