Football (real)

[iAmCaffeine]

I agree with betiko on this. The PL isn't what it used to be and may be the strongest league defensively but it's not the best anymore. I'd like to see Messi in the PL though..

Also, players can take time to adapt. There are many classic examples you could look at.

well depends what you mean by "what it used to be". the premier league is kind of stronger than ever these past 10 years because they have negociated well their TV rights and many investors bought some big clubs. Who were the 2 champion's league finalists last year? 2 germans. The other 2 semifinalists were spanish.
And the premier league the strongest league defensively?? please!! offensively, overall I would agree; but the english defenses are far from the best, mostly if you look at the history of horrible keepers there's always been in England. The serie A has always been known to be the best tactically and therefore defensively with the catenaccio.
Something that might surprise you; every foreign footballer that plays in france would tell you that the ligue 1 is the toughest physically, and that they weren't expecting that. Our second division is one of the best in europe, and you have so many half ass teams that can give you a hard time.

Say, five years ago, the Premier League was probably the strongest league. In recent years though, I think the German, French and Spanish leagues have improved greatly. The way Germans run their football clubs is remarkable and I wish it was replicated everywhere. However, this season the PL has been great with Arsenal revitalised, Everton challenging the top four and Man City off to a very slow start.

Italy does play better tactical football, and therefore defensive football too. I wasn't clear enough. I meant more the style of defence in England is a lot tougher and more physical than most other leagues. I'll take your word for the Ligue 1 being the toughest physically, although I've never heard that before.

Agreed on the French second division being strong, just like our Championship; it's always unpredictable and extremely tough, but the calibre of football is also nowhere the level of the PL.

[Trevor33]

Spain has 3 teams, France has 1 team (2 if you add Monaco) and Germany have 2 teams. The rest are average... as you can see with who has reached the last 16 of the CL. I don't doubt for a second that the top teams from those leagues are stronger than the top teams in England but the second tier in England is stronger and that is what defines if a league is strong or not... not the top couple of teams.

If you want to argue, look at UTD playing in Germany against the THIRD best team, in Germany... what was the score? Where are UTD in the EPL?

[iAmCaffeine]

Good point.

[betiko]

leerkussen's results were very surprising vs united, they did well vs the rest. I haven't seen highlights of those games anyway, but they must've had really a bad day. I can't give much opinion about leverkussen, because unlike the bayern or dortmund i haven't seen tham play in ages and i'm pretty clueless if you show me their roster. Nevertheless, they are performing extremely well this season in their domestic league. I'd be interesed to see them play.

ok, little game; if tomorrow you had to start a european super league of 20 clubs, who would be in by the look of their current roster + your general opinion of the club? you can put as many clubs as you want per country, no restrictions, and you have to place them in order of strongest to weakest, from your perception today (only thinking with you mind and not your heart). here would be my list:

1. FC Bayern
2. FC Barcelona
3. Real Madrid
4. PSG
5. Chelsea
6. Arsenal
7. Atletico de Madrid
8. Juventus
9. Liverpool
10. Borussia Dortmund
11. Napoli
12. Manchester United
13. Manchester City
14. AS Roma
15. Inter
16. Tottenham
17. Bayer Leverkussen
18. AS Monaco
19. Schalke 04
20. FC Porto
21. Galatasaray

[nagerous]

No Everton? Man City are probably the strongest team in the Premiership - you have them way too low.

[JoshyBoy]

No Everton? Man City are probably the strongest team in the Premiership - you have them way too low.

I was also surprised there was no Everton on that list. Excellent side, been very good for a while now.

[Trevor33]

(only thinking with you mind and not your heart)

1. FC Bayern
2. FC Barcelona
3. Real Madrid
4. PSG
5. Chelsea
6. Arsenal
7. Atletico de Madrid
8. Juventus
9. Liverpool
10. Borussia Dortmund
11. Napoli
12. Manchester United
13. Manchester City
14. AS Roma
15. Inter
16. Tottenham
17. Bayer Leverkussen
18. AS Monaco
19. Schalke 04
20. FC Porto
21. Galatasaray

Heart will always rule the head.

I don't know waht is going on at AC Milan but they are a lot better than what they've been doing i n Serie A this season. Italian football does suck at the moment though, Juve 1 draw, 1 loss and look what they do in the CL.

Also Porto has probably the worse Porto team that i can remember them having.

You do see that you're saying the EPL is the strongest league in Europe with 6 sides?

It's hard to make a top 20, you have the top 10 or 11 then is pretty equal for the next 20 or so teams.

[betiko]

Hey that s just my humble opinion! You are welcome to do your own list that includes everton. i don t think they did anythine noteworthy nor that their roster is that impressive. Who do you think is clearly weaker from that list? Are they superior the the fiorentina, zenith st petersbourg or ajax also not on my list? Hard to tell!
Porto well.. Maybe this year is a bit of yet another rebuild, but we all know what this club is capable of. 2 uefa cups and a champion s league these past ten years... And probably the best seller and talent finder of the continent.
Milan is dead since they sold yhiago silva + ibra to the PSG 2 years ago. 2 of the very best players in the world.
Juve, well you have to say it was unfortunate. The game stopped on tuesday and restarted the next day sure didn t help.. And galatasaray got very very lucky. I still think they are a very top european team. Napoli, well.. You couldn t end with a closerr finish, all 3 first team on goal average, all 3 teams among europe s very best.

And yes, I said it before. The insane amount of money the EPL gets from TV rights and the private investors makes it the richest championship, no doubt. I once saw the if you finish last of the EPL you get slightly more TV money that if you end up champion of the bundesliga! There is not a very big difference from 1st to last prize money compared to other leagues, and i think it s great.
Spain freakin unfair, there is a 1/10 ratio between first and last, the first 2 places give about 140M€ while the third gives about 40M€. Scandalous, really designed just for madrid and barcelona to dominate and for others to starve.
Anyway, yes, EPL is the one with the most quality teams, but I do believe that PSG has a better team that any english team this season. And in my opinion, chelsea has a better roster than city this year.

[Trevor33]

I fully expect PSG to draw either Arsenal or Man City in the CL and lose. Ozil has given Arsenal something they have lacked since Henry left... the belief to win. And City, well they have the attacking talent to beat anyone in Europe as shown this week. only Arsenal and City can they they've beaten Bayern away in the CL in the last few seasons. Both City and Chelsea has their flaws, I picked Chelsea at the start of the season but now I think Arsenal might be capable after all.

Spain won't change I agree, often a team comes up to challenge the top two but it never lasts. Look at Valencia, horrible shame.

Everton are good, better than Spurs IMO but lack goal scorers.

UTD will win the CL this year, won't finish top 4 in the PL though so it'll be unlucky Liverpool much like it was lucky Spurs when Chelsea won it a couple of years ago. Would love to see Real/UTD final.

Juve didn't lose the group this week, they lost it in their home games. I would not have Schalke on that list, Ajax deserve their place above them. And Inter? not sure about that one but like i said, impossible to rank to next 15-20 teams after the top 10 or 11.

BTW AC Milan will finish top 4, Inter won't.

[nagerous]

I made a list, though this is a very speculative game to play in all honest and is based on current form/performance

1.Bayern Munich
2. Real Madrid
3. Barcelona
4. PSG
5. Man City
6. Chelsea
7. Arsenal
8.Borussia Dortmund
9. Atletico Madrid
10. Man Utd
11. Juventus
12. AS Monaco
13. Napoli
14. AS Roma
15. Bayer Leverkusen
16. Liverpool (but only because of Suarez)
17. Tottenham Hotspurs
18. Everton
19. AC Milan
20. Galatasaray

[Gillipig]

Why aren't there any american teams on your list? Doesn't LA Galaxy fit there somewhere?

[Trevor33]

Why aren't there any american teams on your list? Doesn't LA Galaxy fit there somewhere?

"ok, little game; if tomorrow you had to start a european super league of 20 clubs"

And no, even if America was in Europe they would fall short of a top 20 place. Very short.

[betiko]

I fully expect PSG to draw either Arsenal or Man City in the CL and lose. Ozil has given Arsenal something they have lacked since Henry left... the belief to win. And City, well they have the attacking talent to beat anyone in Europe as shown this week. only Arsenal and City can they they've beaten Bayern away in the CL in the last few seasons. Both City and Chelsea has their flaws, I picked Chelsea at the start of the season but now I think Arsenal might be capable after all.

Spain won't change I agree, often a team comes up to challenge the top two but it never lasts. Look at Valencia, horrible shame.

Everton are good, better than Spurs IMO but lack goal scorers.

UTD will win the CL this year, won't finish top 4 in the PL though so it'll be unlucky Liverpool much like it was lucky Spurs when Chelsea won it a couple of years ago. Would love to see Real/UTD final.

Juve didn't lose the group this week, they lost it in their home games. I would not have Schalke on that list, Ajax deserve their place above them. And Inter? not sure about that one but like i said, impossible to rank to next 15-20 teams after the top 10 or 11.

BTW AC Milan will finish top 4, Inter won't.

lol, so ozil gives arsenal the will to win, that's one player. PSG has Zlatan, just by saying his name means everything, he counts for 12. Zlatan is currently playing his best football ever according to himself. He is number 1 in goals AND in assists of the french league. He is the number one in goals and assists of the champions league this season and he didn't even bother to play the 6th game that was worth peanuts. Zlatan is freaking Zlatan. This guy is a true show on the pitch. he makes you boo him when he acts like a brat, then smile the second after when he starts laughing because he was just kidding. Then you see him completely pissed off for no reason and he scores a goal from outer space. You have a hugely talented player with him, full of sacrifice and doesn't care not to play in his natural position, new to the team and who is on and off the top scorer of the league with him, Cavani. The team is very strong on every line. the weak points of this psg are basically the midfielders playing on the side who don't deliver as expected (Lavezzi, Pastore, Lucas, Menez). All very talented, but all disapointing to different extents. The PSG from this season is way better than last year, trust me. Blanc is doing a much better job than Ancelotti, the team is playing nicely and has much better results. Last year PSG got eliminated from the champion's league without losing a single game, but making two draws against barcelona (2-2 home, 1-1 away). Anything that isn't reaching semi finals minimum this season would be considered as a failure. I really think they are better right now that arsenal and city, but who knows, things change fast and they might turn to crap by march...

Regarding spain, it wasn't like that before. sometimes the atletico, valencia, or even deportivo won the league. they just killed their championship, making a scottish premiership-like league.

united to win the champion's league? you mean the league cup, right? lol, no way mate, too many strange things would need to happen.

and inter; well they are on a low phase, but in much better shape than the ac milan. and let me remind you that some super rich indonesian-american dude bought the club and that he's gonna spend big time... starting this winter?

[Trevor33]

Fair enough Zaltan is God, but so was Sachin and India only won one world cup with him. Not the will, they always had the will but they never believed they were good enough to win since Henry left, now they do and their win in Germany means more than people think. Their whole midfield is looking the best in Europe right now and Ozil is the key than keeps it all together... I'm not an Arsenal fan but they look very different this year. True PSG have played better this season but look at their group, they haven't been challenged yet. They couldn't even beat Monaco at home this season... remember watching the friendly against England though, when Zaltan is in the mood there's not many better. As a goal scorer Falcao is better though and possibly the reason why Monaco might win the league this year. Especially if PSG do go on a CL run. Domestic French football id looking better now than it has done in many years.

Moyes seems to be able to set out a team for the CL but struggle in the league. Why they're playing 442 with that crap midfield is beyond me, doesn;t take Rafa to work out all the opposition has to do is pack the center and control the game from there. No point in having Robin and Wayne up front if they never get the ball. CL, 451, maybe. Greece won the Euros remember

[nietzsche]

I fully expect PSG to draw either Arsenal or Man City in the CL and lose.

UTD will win the CL this year

BTW AC Milan will finish top 4

[betiko]

Fair enough Zaltan is God, but so was Sachin and India only won one world cup with him. Not the will, they always had the will but they never believed they were good enough to win since Henry left, now they do and their win in Germany means more than people think. Their whole midfield is looking the best in Europe right now and Ozil is the key than keeps it all together... I'm not an Arsenal fan but they look very different this year. True PSG have played better this season but look at their group, they haven't been challenged yet. They couldn't even beat Monaco at home this season... remember watching the friendly against England though, when Zaltan is in the mood there's not many better. As a goal scorer Falcao is better though and possibly the reason why Monaco might win the league this year. Especially if PSG do go on a CL run. Domestic French football id looking better now than it has done in many years.

Moyes seems to be able to set out a team for the CL but struggle in the league. Why they're playing 442 with that crap midfield is beyond me, doesn;t take Rafa to work out all the opposition has to do is pack the center and control the game from there. No point in having Robin and Wayne up front if they never get the ball. CL, 451, maybe. Greece won the Euros remember

falcao will be missing his game again for the 4th consecutive time, he's a bit injured. zlatan scored 30 goals last season in french league only, he's now at 13 after a very rough start, were he was practically not scoring, cavani was scoring most of them. cavani has been scoring over 100 goals in the past 3 seasons in serie A, that is really impressive.
I am a marseille fan, so PSG is supposed to be our arch-enemy. But no way monaco beats paris. they might be 2 points behind only, they are not in the same league. PSG has much better players and plays as a very solid team. Monaco is doing very well, a good mix of experienced and young talented players. but they are just back from second division and they bought like 10-15 players last summer with rybolovlev and his billions and kicking out 50% of the players who brought them to ligue1. This is season 1 of this monaco new age in ligue 1 (actually rybolovlev bought them 2 years ago and failed to go back to first division the first year). The Emir of Qatar is now on his 3rd season with the PSG. The serious team is now a reality, unlike monaco, yet. Ask any monaco fan, they are going for the second place for starts and would be happy with that. Of course if by the end of the seasonthey are still a few points away they will try for the title... But Monaco really has 5-6 very young and talented players that need a year or 2.

[nietzsche]

1. Real Madrid
2. Barcelona
3. Bayern Munich
4. Man City
5. Atletico de Madrid
6. PSG
7. Arsenal
8. Juventus
9. Man Utd.
10. Chelsea
11.Dortmund
11. Milan
11. Inter
11. Real Sociedad
11. Leverkusen
11. Napoli
11. Liverpool
11. Roma
11. Ajax
11. Galatasaray


Why Ajax, because it's an historic team and the only one from Holland. Real Sociedad plays beautifully some times.

[JoshyBoy]

If (and that's a big if) we beat City today, it will be a massive step towards winning the title in my opinion. We have a good enough squad, but I have this horrible feeling we're going to choke at some point this season.

[betiko]

1. Real Madrid
2. Barcelona
3. Bayern Munich
4. Man City
5. Atletico de Madrid
6. PSG
7. Arsenal
8. Juventus
9. Man Utd.
10. Chelsea
11.Dortmund
11. Milan
11. Inter
11. Real Sociedad
11. Leverkusen
11. Napoli
11. Liverpool
11. Roma
11. Ajax
11. Galatasaray


Why Ajax, because it's an historic team and the only one from Holland. Real Sociedad plays beautifully some times.

How on earth can you consider city superior to the atletico, psg and arsenal? What have they done? Well aparently there is a city arsenal today, so there will be part of the answer. And la real in your top 20? Lol, they wouldn t even be in my top 40. They got a lucky season and went to the champion s league, struggling this year and they will sell again all their players. This isn t a great club, it got humiliated in champions league this season, all their players are leaving... Nietszche i think you took over trevor s past crack addiction.
Oh and madrid number one in europe at this point... Lulz!

[JoshyBoy]

City are unreal going forward. 2-1 at half time, great game of football.

[JoshyBoy]

Taken apart. No surprise to be honest. 3 games in 6 days, 1 point. Here's "the blip" for Arsenal the pundits were talking about.

6-3... it was just a question of who could score the most today.

[betiko]

That was a crazy game! Great week for city. I guess i need to reconsider my opinion about them this season, their awful start and pretty uneventful recruitment, apart from the coach, made me think they wouldn t do much better than fight for 4th place. Not anymore.

[Trevor33]

1. Real Madrid
2. Barcelona
3. Bayern Munich
4. Man City
5. Atletico de Madrid
6. PSG
7. Arsenal
8. Juventus
9. Man Utd.
10. Chelsea
11.Dortmund
11. Milan
11. Inter
11. Real Sociedad
11. Leverkusen
11. Napoli
11. Liverpool
11. Roma
11. Ajax
11. Galatasaray


Why Ajax, because it's an historic team and the only one from Holland. Real Sociedad plays beautifully some times.

How on earth can you consider city superior to the atletico, psg and arsenal? What have they done? Well aparently there is a city arsenal today, so there will be part of the answer. And la real in your top 20? Lol, they wouldn t even be in my top 40. They got a lucky season and went to the champion s league, struggling this year and they will sell again all their players. This isn t a great club, it got humiliated in champions league this season, all their players are leaving... Nietszche i think you took over trevor s past crack addiction.
Oh and madrid number one in europe at this point... Lulz!

City won the league two seasons ago and had the best team last year... until this year have always struggled in Europe though so i see your point. They have the best team again this season but unless they start playing well away from home their 6-3 wins over Arsenal and the like will count for nothing at the end of the season.

[betiko]

i know they won the league 2 years ago, and i also remember how close it was vs qpr on that last game. I'm glad they won, I hate united. things seemed to have gone downhill ever since though, and this week was very sweet for them. They did loads of crap last year and did loads of crap early this season. Pellegrini is a great coach and i was quite surprised.

[Gillipig]

Why aren't there any american teams on your list? Doesn't LA Galaxy fit there somewhere?

"ok, little game; if tomorrow you had to start a european super league of 20 clubs"

And no, even if America was in Europe they would fall short of a top 20 place. Very short.