Conquer Club

'Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air. Consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.' - Hitler

Discuss.

Given that the author of those words was instrumental in destroying religious institutions under his regime... I think you need another "expert" source.

And that even aside from his being the "poster child" for a-moral acts.

Horseshit.

God-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their god.

Government-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their government.

The anarchist atheist is the only truly moral person, because he has to answer questions of morality for himself. At every junction he has to ask himself, "Is this action right or wrong?" and answer that question, reasoning from first principles, with nobody to help.

Or, he could become a nihilist, I suppose. But then John Goodman would beat the piss out of him.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Given that the author of those words was instrumental in destroying religious institutions under his regime... I think you need another "expert" source.

I'm sure he can dig up something by Voltaire or Descartes.

Dukasaur wrote:Horseshit.

God-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their god.

Government-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their government.

The anarchist atheist is the only truly moral person, because he has to answer questions of morality for himself. At every junction he has to ask himself, "Is this action right or wrong?" and answer that question, reasoning from first principles, with nobody to help.

Or, he could become a nihilist, I suppose. But then John Goodman would beat the piss out of him.

-TG

Duckysaur wrote:God-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their god.

Government-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their government.

Rules and morals are not the same thing.

'You are not allowed to kill people' is a rule. 'Killing people is wrong' is a moral.

mrswdk wrote:

Duckysaur wrote:God-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their god.

Government-worshippers have a pre-fab set of rules handed to them on a platter by their government.

Rules and morals are not the same thing.

'You are not allowed to kill people' is a rule. 'Killing people is wrong' is a moral.

Nonetheless, government-worshipers consider it so. I can't count the number of times that I've chastised someone for engaging in some dishonest business practise, only to have them reply, "It's perfectly legal!"

At that point I want to beat them in the face with a crowbar and scream, "Legal does not equal moral!!!" but unfortunately that act, in and of itself, is immoral in most cases. Plus, being products of the public school system, they really do think that legal equals moral, so they just wouldn't get it anyway.

this debate is bunk. I already know what's going to happen:


1. I argue that morality is subjective and say that OP is nonsense because of it
2. BBS posts link to Wikipedia article for moral pluralism
3. the religious call the non-religious/moral relativists what's wrong with the world
4. I get bored and leave conversation
5. This thread continues for a few years getting a few hundred pages because you morons will argue for-god-damned-ever
6. this thread slowly disappears because of the Great Decline

Army of GOD wrote:this debate is bunk. I already know what's going to happen:


1. I argue that morality is subjective and say that OP is nonsense because of it
2. BBS posts link to Wikipedia article for moral pluralism
3. the religious call the non-religious/moral relativists what's wrong with the world
4. I get bored and leave conversation
5. This thread continues for a few years getting a few hundred pages because you morons will argue for-god-damned-ever
6. this thread slowly disappears because of the Great Decline

But are you sure that you know what's going to happen? These things are pretty subjective, aren't they?

Religions are built on already existing mores. Suck on that, op.

-TG

Indeed, religion is made by men and rewritten over the years to better suit the ever evolving world. As far as morals go, that is on the individual, not any institution to say. After all, people are diverse for a reason.

Religion sets certain standards that the majority
of followers' actions speak louder than words.
Which tends to be, do as I say... not as I do.

Morality is learned with time and experience,
learning from the community around you.

Acceptance or failure are your own choice.

asellas1025 wrote:Indeed, religion is made by men and rewritten over the years to better suit the ever evolving world. As far as morals go, that is on the individual, not any institution to say. After all, people are diverse for a reason.

Does people making up their own morals not prove that their moral codes are irrelevant bunk?

As an atheist, I have no morals. Last night, I punched a baby because I felt like it.

Metsfanmax wrote:As an atheist, I have no morals. Last night, I punched a baby because I felt like it.

I can better that..my atheism drives me to eat babies.

chang50 wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:As an atheist, I have no morals. Last night, I punched a baby because I felt like it.

I can better that..my atheism drives me to eat babies.

There's nothing stopping an atheist from doing just that.

shickingbrits wrote:

chang50 wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:As an atheist, I have no morals. Last night, I punched a baby because I felt like it.

I can better that..my atheism drives me to eat babies.

There's nothing stopping an atheist from doing just that.

There's also nothing stopping a religious person from doing just that.

shickingbrits wrote:

chang50 wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:As an atheist, I have no morals. Last night, I punched a baby because I felt like it.

I can better that..my atheism drives me to eat babies.

There's nothing stopping an atheist from doing just that.

I find they are best barbecued whilst still alive and served with French fries and beer.

Actually, there is. Thee without sin may cast the first stone. Jesus, being there without sin, did not cast a stone. The Church may have executed many people and claimed that authority was derived through Jesus, but the example left from which they garnered that authority was the exact opposite.

Luther and others can point to this and other examples and say that the Church is unchristian. Religion is being corrupted by its governing institution. For atheist, their governing rules are incorruptible for they have none. Any act is justified by the desire and ability to accomplish it.

shickingbrits wrote:Actually, there is. Thee without sin may cast the first stone. Jesus, being there without sin, did not cast a stone. The Church may have executed many people and claimed that authority was derived through Jesus, but the example left from which they garnered that authority was the exact opposite.

Luther and others can point to this and other examples and say that the Church is unchristian. Religion is being corrupted by its governing institution. For atheist, their governing rules are incorruptible for they have none. Any act is justified by the desire and ability to accomplish it.

And it's wonderful eating babies and all,what new depravity shall I try next I wonder?

Well it doesn't really matter to you does it? You will one day ultimately die and nothing you have done or were will exist. There is no difference in doing it or not doing it. Crime and Punishment, it's a good book.

shickingbrits wrote:Well it doesn't really matter to you does it? You will one day ultimately die and nothing you have done or were will exist. There is no difference in doing it or not doing it. Crime and Punishment, it's a good book.

What is really scary to me is that your religious beliefs are the only thing stopping you from doing terrible things.You should never deconvert,you are incapable of being an independent moral agent.

Why so scared? You are devolving into nothingness anyways and in the 13 billion or so years that stuff has existed, your years are of no significance. No matter what you do, how long you live, what you pass on, how famous you get, it's all just a piece of emptiness in a sea of nothing.

shickingbrits wrote:Why so scared? You are devolving into nothingness anyways and in the 13 billion or so years that stuff has existed, your years are of no significance. No matter what you do, how long you live, what you pass on, how famous you get, it's all just a piece of emptiness in a sea of nothing.

That's the brutal truth.While I'm here I can still feel scared/horrified by people who seem to be admitting the only thing stopping them behaving badly is religious belief.If you deconverted would you go on a rampage?Please don't duck the question this time..

If I believed one way to live on is through some minor fame perpetuated through an insignificant species, then I would be willing to do things to acquire that fame that I'm not willing to do knowing that I will live on forever anyways. If I believed that I would only live on through my genes, then I would be willing to do anything to enhance their chance of survival.

shickingbrits wrote:If I believed one way to live on is through some minor fame perpetuated through an insignificant species, then I would be willing to do things to acquire that fame that I'm not willing to do knowing that I will live on forever anyways. If I believed that I would only live on through my genes, then I would be willing to do anything to enhance their chance of survival.

Very revealing..so tell me again who is the more moral?An atheist like me who has zero desire to live on and has no biological progeny,or a theist like you who is only constrained by religious beliefs and who admits in the absence of said beliefs would do literally anything to enhance their survival.
You stand condemned by your own words.I am patently more moral than you..