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PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

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PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:51 am

Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.

inb4 20m people starved hurr durr
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:53 am

inb4 AoG says '20m people starved hurr durr'
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby Endgame422 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:17 am

mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.

inb4 20m people starved hurr durr

In the context this was written in it certainly is a valid comparison. That was about people's names that could be offensive. Not about who is better/worse as a person, or about the related politics you want it to be. The point was people could be offended by Mao references on this site and here you are,offended.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby tzor on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:16 am

mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.


A totally valid comparison ... at least for Stalin.

Oh and it's 45 not 20. :twisted:

But are we just talking numbers or are we talking about exterminations in concentration camps? Hitler killed on race and Stalin killed on social status. Are we talking about failed economic policies or a deliberate attempt to keep food from going to people (by stealing all of the food) resulting in them starving to death? (this the case with Stalin.) I think I can make a very good case for Hitler and Stalin being relatively equal (and the only reason why we don't treat them equal was that Stalin got a "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" Card from Churchill for being on the right side (in the end) of WWII).
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:29 am

Not all dinosaurs are sinophobic. I personally love eating counterfeit meat. Who needs real filet mignon when you can make it out of Rat?
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:09 am

Endgame422 wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.

inb4 20m people starved hurr durr

In the context this was written in it certainly is a valid comparison. That was about people's names that could be offensive. Not about who is better/worse as a person, or about the related politics you want it to be. The point was people could be offended by Mao references on this site and here you are,offended.


What could possibly be offensive about someone choosing the handle 'Mao'? Would you be offended if I called myself 'GeorgeBush'?
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:11 am

tzor wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.


A totally valid comparison ... at least for Stalin.

Oh and it's 45 not 20. :twisted:

But are we just talking numbers or are we talking about exterminations in concentration camps? Hitler killed on race and Stalin killed on social status. Are we talking about failed economic policies or a deliberate attempt to keep food from going to people (by stealing all of the food) resulting in them starving to death? (this the case with Stalin.) I think I can make a very good case for Hitler and Stalin being relatively equal (and the only reason why we don't treat them equal was that Stalin got a "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" Card from Churchill for being on the right side (in the end) of WWII).


Oh, yah. I just meant the inclusion of Mao in that post. Stalin and Hitler did fairly comparable things.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:17 am

lol, yeah, cuz communism under Mao was totes awesome!

It's okay, swdk. Mao's dead, so criticizing him is completely fine. His silly little orange body in the middle of Tiananmen Square can't hear you.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:44 am

mrswdk wrote:
tzor wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.


A totally valid comparison ... at least for Stalin.

Oh and it's 45 not 20. :twisted:

But are we just talking numbers or are we talking about exterminations in concentration camps? Hitler killed on race and Stalin killed on social status. Are we talking about failed economic policies or a deliberate attempt to keep food from going to people (by stealing all of the food) resulting in them starving to death? (this the case with Stalin.) I think I can make a very good case for Hitler and Stalin being relatively equal (and the only reason why we don't treat them equal was that Stalin got a "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" Card from Churchill for being on the right side (in the end) of WWII).


Oh, yah. I just meant the inclusion of Mao in that post. Stalin and Hitler did fairly comparable things.


Why separate them from national socialism? Their political systems were very much the same, and why place so much emphasis on intentions (e.g. the Nazis intended on killing select groups; whereas, the Soviet and PRC authorities... didn't it... (yeah, that sounds incorrect too)). Regardless, if a state enacts a policy which (un)intentionally kills millions and millions of civilians, that's no excuse. For me, that's nearly almost as shitty as intentionally killing them.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby Army of GOD on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:49 pm

itt: mrstitsorgtfo trolls people
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby tzor on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:53 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Why separate them from national socialism?

Or Communism? Well in one case we shouldn't. But this is, I believe, about name banning, and plain old sucks doesn't cut it. Name banning should be for proper and legitimate Genocide. Hitler, Stalin, Hamid ... those sort of sick bastard puppies.

But back to that other guy, "But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:15 pm

There's no doubt that Mao was a far greater murderer in absolute terms than Hitler or Stalin, although all three are in the same league.

One source:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html
Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikƶtter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known".

Mr Dikƶtter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.

Mr Dikƶtter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history ā€“ which has until now remained hidden ā€“ has international resonance. "It ranks alongside the gulags and the Holocaust as one of the three greatest events of the 20th century.... It was like [the Cambodian communist dictator] Pol Pot's genocide multiplied 20 times over," he said.

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, Mr Dikƶtter said.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he studied. In them, he found that the members of the rural farming communities were seen by the Party merely as "digits", or a faceless workforce. For those who committed any acts of disobedience, however minor, the punishments were huge.

State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.

Mr Dikƶtter said that he was once again examining the Party's archives for his next book, The Tragedy of Liberation, which will deal with the bloody advent of Communism in China from 1944 to 1957.

He said the archives were already illuminating the extent of the atrocities of the period; one piece of evidence revealed that 13,000 opponents of the new regime were killed in one region alone, in just three weeks. "We know the outline of what went on but I will be looking into precisely what happened in this period, how it happened, and the human experiences behind the history," he said.

Mr Dikƶtter, who teaches at the University of Hong Kong, said while it was difficult for any historian in China to write books that are critical of Mao, he felt he could not collude with the "conspiracy of silence" in what the Chinese rural community had suffered in recent history.

emphasis added.

None of this is to defend Hitler or Stalin. Both of those were unspeakably hideous creatures of evil. But Mao surpassed them both.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:40 pm

The vast majority of the starvations were accidental, caused by Mao's misguided policies (which led to a huge food shortage) rather than deliberate persecution. That's why the GLF only lasted 3 years: Mao realized he was messing up and abandoned it.

Also, you can't just lump all local government activity into a column labelled 'Mao'. Every time a black kid gets shot by a psycho cop in America, is that 'Obama'?

Also, 45m sounds big but at the time was approximately 4% of the entire country (I'm assuming a population of 1b). That isn't an astonishingly large number of people to do in a nationwide famine.

Long live Grandpa Mao
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby 2dimes on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:44 pm

mrswdk wrote:The vast majority of the starvations were accidental,

Oops-a-daisy.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:29 am

mrswdk wrote:The vast majority of the starvations were accidental, caused by Mao's misguided policies (which led to a huge food shortage) rather than deliberate persecution. That's why the GLF only lasted 3 years: Mao realized he was messing up and abandoned it.
So, we'll just "Whoops! My bad!" And everything is okay? That's like someone running over a person in the middle of the street while they were on the phone and saying "Whoopsie, my bad guys!" and driving off without anything happening (but on a much larger scale). Was it intentional? No, but does that absolve them of killing the person? Somehow, I don't think so.

Also, you can't just lump all local government activity into a column labelled 'Mao'. Every time a black kid gets shot by a psycho cop in America, is that 'Obama'?
Except Mao was a dictator, an absolute ruler. Obama, as much as people criticize him, has no where near that power and can only do so much because a lot has to go through Congress and the Supreme Court. Apples to oranges.

Also, 45m sounds big but at the time was approximately 4% of the entire country (I'm assuming a population of 1b). That isn't an astonishingly large number of people to do in a nationwide famine.
Line up 45 million people in a single file line. I think you would be convinced that it is quite a large number of people.

Long live Grandpa Mao
Little late for that one though.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:03 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:
mrswdk wrote:The vast majority of the starvations were accidental, caused by Mao's misguided policies (which led to a huge food shortage) rather than deliberate persecution. That's why the GLF only lasted 3 years: Mao realized he was messing up and abandoned it.
So, we'll just "Whoops! My bad!" And everything is okay? That's like someone running over a person in the middle of the street while they were on the phone and saying "Whoopsie, my bad guys!" and driving off without anything happening (but on a much larger scale). Was it intentional? No, but does that absolve them of killing the person? Somehow, I don't think so.


There is a big difference between causing deaths by accident and causing deaths by deliberate extermination (e.g. Hitler, Stalin, Bomber Harris, the Manhattan Project).

my_thaiguy wrote:
MrSWDK wrote:Also, you can't just lump all local government activity into a column labelled 'Mao'. Every time a black kid gets shot by a psycho cop in America, is that 'Obama'?
Except Mao was a dictator, an absolute ruler. Obama, as much as people criticize him, has no where near that power and can only do so much because a lot has to go through Congress and the Supreme Court. Apples to oranges.


In many (probably most, possibly 'all') cases, local cadres pretended food production was just fine, even when they were falling behind and failing to grow sufficient crops. Central government (i.e. Mao & Friends) levied more food than the rural areas could afford to give, but only because they had no idea they were taking too much. Once the information trickled through, the GLF was abandoned and Mao apologized.

Mao may have been one of the greatest leaders who has ever lived but even he had to delegate some of the workload when it came to running a country of 1billion people.

wai_mai_guy wrote:
MrsWdk wrote:Also, 45m sounds big but at the time was approximately 4% of the entire country (I'm assuming a population of 1b). That isn't an astonishingly large number of people to do in a nationwide famine.
Line up 45 million people in a single file line. I think you would be convinced that it is quite a large number of people.


Line up the 950m who survived and that looks an awful lot larger.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby chang50 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:17 am

tzor wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.


A totally valid comparison ... at least for Stalin.

Oh and it's 45 not 20. :twisted:

But are we just talking numbers or are we talking about exterminations in concentration camps? Hitler killed on race and Stalin killed on social status. Are we talking about failed economic policies or a deliberate attempt to keep food from going to people (by stealing all of the food) resulting in them starving to death? (this the case with Stalin.) I think I can make a very good case for Hitler and Stalin being relatively equal (and the only reason why we don't treat them equal was that Stalin got a "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" Card from Churchill for being on the right side (in the end) of WWII).


The Soviets were slightly more than just being on the right side of wwii..the Red Army primarily defeated the Wehrmacht so unless Churchill and Truman intended to stab them in the back after their heroics and sacrifice I fail to see where Stalin was given a get out of jail free card by anyone.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:56 am

chang50 wrote:
tzor wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:If the Hitlers on the site are forced to change their name, the various Stalins and Maos should be forced to change theirs.


Not a valid comparison.


A totally valid comparison ... at least for Stalin.

Oh and it's 45 not 20. :twisted:

But are we just talking numbers or are we talking about exterminations in concentration camps? Hitler killed on race and Stalin killed on social status. Are we talking about failed economic policies or a deliberate attempt to keep food from going to people (by stealing all of the food) resulting in them starving to death? (this the case with Stalin.) I think I can make a very good case for Hitler and Stalin being relatively equal (and the only reason why we don't treat them equal was that Stalin got a "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" Card from Churchill for being on the right side (in the end) of WWII).


The Soviets were slightly more than just being on the right side of wwii..the Red Army primarily defeated the Wehrmacht so unless Churchill and Truman intended to stab them in the back after their heroics and sacrifice I fail to see where Stalin was given a get out of jail free card by anyone.

The "get out of jail free card" consisted mainly of agreeing to never discuss things like Stalin's genocide against the Ukrainians before the war.

Most of Stalin's exterminations took place before and after the war. During the war he actually behaved in an almost civilized fashion, because he couldn't afford to make new enemies. During the war the only people murdered were actual political enemies (although that of course is evil enough by itself.)

Before the war came the big genocide against Ukrainians, as well as smaller exterminations against Jews, Tatars, etc. Before the war there were also great political purges with hundreds of thousands killed. These crimes and others were swept under the rug because the Allies needed Russian help in the war.

After the war there were many quasi-genocides like the campaigns against Estonians, Prussians, Poles and Jews, where only a minority were killed but the majority were "persuaded" to emigrate to far-off places and abandon their original homes. There was also the subjugation of people in ten East European nations, enshrining the Russian conquests during the war and betraying the principles of self-determination that the Soviets were sworn to uphold during the war.

And of course, the subjugation of Mongolia, the conquest of Karafuto as a war prize, and then the Russian assistance to Mao's conquest of China, which gives us our segue to...
mrswdk wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
mrswdk wrote:The vast majority of the starvations were accidental, caused by Mao's misguided policies (which led to a huge food shortage) rather than deliberate persecution. That's why the GLF only lasted 3 years: Mao realized he was messing up and abandoned it.
So, we'll just "Whoops! My bad!" And everything is okay? That's like someone running over a person in the middle of the street while they were on the phone and saying "Whoopsie, my bad guys!" and driving off without anything happening (but on a much larger scale). Was it intentional? No, but does that absolve them of killing the person? Somehow, I don't think so.


There is a big difference between causing deaths by accident and causing deaths by deliberate extermination (e.g. Hitler, Stalin, Bomber Harris, the Manhattan Project).

my_thaiguy wrote:
MrSWDK wrote:Also, you can't just lump all local government activity into a column labelled 'Mao'. Every time a black kid gets shot by a psycho cop in America, is that 'Obama'?
Except Mao was a dictator, an absolute ruler. Obama, as much as people criticize him, has no where near that power and can only do so much because a lot has to go through Congress and the Supreme Court. Apples to oranges.


In many (probably most, possibly 'all') cases, local cadres pretended food production was just fine, even when they were falling behind and failing to grow sufficient crops. Central government (i.e. Mao & Friends) levied more food than the rural areas could afford to give, but only because they had no idea they were taking too much. Once the information trickled through, the GLF was abandoned and Mao apologized.

Maybe that's how they're spinning it nowadays, but if you ever look at the evidence you'll find there was nothing accidental about the starvations. There was no starvation in the big coastal cities or in the far north, where most people were loyal to Mao. The starvations took place mainly in rural provinces of the interior or the south where many people weren't happy with communism, and especially along the Yangtze, where there was still faith that the Kuomintang would come back. Considering that those were the regions that produced the most food prior to communism, it should make you suspicious that those suffered the worst, while the biggest cities (which don't produce any food at all) barely suffered. Ask yourself why Szechuan lost 18 million people while Peking barely lost any. Accident Shmaxident. This was a politically-motivated genocide against potentially disloyal regions, no less than Stalin's genocide in the Ukraine, and using generally the same methods.

I probably can't get past the wall of bullshit that you were indoctrinated with in school, so I won't waste any further time trying, but maybe one day you'll start asking yourself these questions.

In the meantime, let's move past the slaughter of the GLF. What's your excuse for the millions murdered during the Cultural Revolution? Another accident?
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:52 am

mrswdk wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
mrswdk wrote:The vast majority of the starvations were accidental, caused by Mao's misguided policies (which led to a huge food shortage) rather than deliberate persecution. That's why the GLF only lasted 3 years: Mao realized he was messing up and abandoned it.
So, we'll just "Whoops! My bad!" And everything is okay? That's like someone running over a person in the middle of the street while they were on the phone and saying "Whoopsie, my bad guys!" and driving off without anything happening (but on a much larger scale). Was it intentional? No, but does that absolve them of killing the person? Somehow, I don't think so.


There is a big difference between causing deaths by accident and causing deaths by deliberate extermination (e.g. Hitler, Stalin, Bomber Harris, the Manhattan Project).
Let me get this straight, you don't think Mao exterminated dissenters and only "accidentally" killed tens of millions of people? I don't know whether I should laugh at that naivete or cry because of your disillusionment of this.

my_thaiguy wrote:
MrSWDK wrote:Also, you can't just lump all local government activity into a column labelled 'Mao'. Every time a black kid gets shot by a psycho cop in America, is that 'Obama'?
Except Mao was a dictator, an absolute ruler. Obama, as much as people criticize him, has no where near that power and can only do so much because a lot has to go through Congress and the Supreme Court. Apples to oranges.


In many (probably most, possibly 'all') cases, local cadres pretended food production was just fine, even when they were falling behind and failing to grow sufficient crops. Central government (i.e. Mao & Friends) levied more food than the rural areas could afford to give, but only because they had no idea they were taking too much. Once the information trickled through, the GLF was abandoned and Mao apologized.
Uh huh. He apologized after millions died, and then continued to let millions more die. Somehow, I see his "apology" going something like this.



Mao may have been one of the greatest leaders who has ever lived but even he had to delegate some of the workload when it came to running a country of 1billion people.
I think our ideas of "greatest leaders who ever lived" have completely different meanings. Like, you think a man responsible for the deaths of at least 45 million people (about on par with Stalin and Hitler) and for completely tanking the economy of a massive country like China within a few years equates to being a "great leader".

wai_mai_guy wrote:
MrsWdk wrote:Also, 45m sounds big but at the time was approximately 4% of the entire country (I'm assuming a population of 1b). That isn't an astonishingly large number of people to do in a nationwide famine.
Line up 45 million people in a single file line. I think you would be convinced that it is quite a large number of people.


Line up the 950m who survived and that looks an awful lot larger.[/quote]Was there really a need to try and insult me by changing my username like that? Because it does absolutely nothing to help your case.

Back on topic, 45 million people is still 45 million people. To just casually dismiss such a large number of people (no matter the population of China) shows the same sort of indifference that many Russians show today when they wish to return to what life was like under Stalin (in that everyone had a job, but never mind people being shipped off to gulags, secret police gunning people down, and ethnic cleanings).
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby hotfire on Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:15 pm

2dimes wrote:
mrswdk wrote:The vast majority of the starvations were accidental,

Oops-a-daisy.

lol
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:23 pm

Hey you guise.... I found where universalchiro has been hiding. Reported for being a multi.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:22 pm

"Branded with hot metal...?" How else do you brand things?

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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby tzor on Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:36 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:"Branded with hot metal...?" How else do you brand things?


Well you can use liquid nitrogen and freeze brand.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:16 pm

The Racist Diplodocus wrote:There was no starvation in the big coastal cities or in the far north, where most people were loyal to Mao.


Well, duh. Food was taken from the countryside to fuel the industrialization of the cities. Hence the lack of starvation in the cities. And of course, as I said before, the starvation in the countryside was accidental anyways. Mao's whole ideology was that the farmers and the rural peasants should own the country - why the fck would he deliberately starve the one group he stood for?

And funnily enough yes, the parts of the country that were (at that time) benefitting the most from Mao's rule were the ones that were most loyal. Just as those who benefit most from any government's rule will be most loyal to that government.

'Peking'? Come on, dude.
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Re: PROOF: Dinosaurs are sinophobic

Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:23 pm

wai_mai_guy, I'm not playing with the names to insult you. I just do it to keep myself amused. Ask Biebs/BigBootyStalin.

You have clearly been so indoctrinated by the anti-China fanatics that I am never going to get through to you, as illustrated by the glaring factual errors you are making in your denigration of Mao. Do a little research, learn about the GLF and then get back to me.
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