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Tackling white supremacist violence

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What should the international community do?

Sanctions, until white supremacist forums hosted in the US are shut down
1
10%
Drone strikes on known white supremacist strongholds
3
30%
Invade US and install a black-majority government
2
20%
Ban country music performances
3
30%
Immediately detain white people displaying extremist tendencies (e.g. talking about how Europe developed faster than other regions, reading Plato's Republic)
1
10%
 
Total votes : 10

Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:26 am

White supremacists are responsible for two-thirds of all terror attacks originating in the US. What should be done about this?
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby HitRed on Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:39 am

"The Fifth Commandment is 'Thou shalt not kill'.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby KoolBak on Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:58 am

Really hoping this is a joke. Sadly assuming it's not.

This author, as an example of a human being, is a far greater problem than any of the themes he regurgitates. Sigh.
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby mookiemcgee on Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:09 pm

Why would the 'international community' do anything about it? Are American white nationalists suicide bombing in Zimbabwe and I missed the news?
saxitoxin wrote:deaths among the unvaccinated are higher.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:White supremacists are responsible for two-thirds of all terror attacks originating in the US. What should be done about this?


are we seeing ralf's spots and true colors now showing??

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591079/number-of-terrorist-attacks-in-united-states/

n 2019, there were 68 terrorist attacks in the United States. This is a significant increase from the 18 terrorist attacks that occurred in 2008.
Terrorism in the United States

Terrorism in the United States is seen as an act of violence with the motive to create ideological change. Terrorism in the United States is usually associated with Islamic terrorism and does not always consider ring-wing motives as terrorism. Since the September 11, 2001 attack, most terror acts committed on United States soil were perpetrated by U.S. born citizens. Additionally, since 1970, bombing/explosion type attacks were the most common type of terror attacks in the United States. 2017 saw the highest number of fatalities in terrorist attacks since 2001.
9/11 Attack

The September 11, 2001 attack was the deadliest terrorist attack in the United States. Perpetrated by terrorist group al-Qaeda, over 3,000 people died and around 6,000 people were injured. Furthermore, it caused long-term health problems for those who survived such as cancer and other respiratory diseases. The World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed and a portion of the Pentagon was severely damaged as a result of three different airplanes crashing into them. Following the attack, the United States declared the War on Terror and invaded Afghanistan. Additionally, the Homeland Security Act was introduced. It created the Department of Homeland Security, which seeks to protect civilians within and outside the borders of the United States and respond to terrorist attacks. However, nearly half of U.S. citizens said that they were only somewhat satisfied with the government’s response to 9/11.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:06 pm

HitRed wrote:"The Fifth Commandment is 'Thou shalt not kill'.


Why is it so many alleged Christians seem to have a problem remembering it?
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby mookiemcgee on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:14 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:White supremacists are responsible for two-thirds of all terror attacks originating in the US. What should be done about this?


are we seeing ralf's spots and true colors now showing??

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591079/number-of-terrorist-attacks-in-united-states/

n 2019, there were 68 terrorist attacks in the United States. This is a significant increase from the 18 terrorist attacks that occurred in 2008.
Terrorism in the United States

Terrorism in the United States is seen as an act of violence with the motive to create ideological change. Terrorism in the United States is usually associated with Islamic terrorism and does not always consider ring-wing motives as terrorism. Since the September 11, 2001 attack, most terror acts committed on United States soil were perpetrated by U.S. born citizens. Additionally, since 1970, bombing/explosion type attacks were the most common type of terror attacks in the United States. 2017 saw the highest number of fatalities in terrorist attacks since 2001.
9/11 Attack

The September 11, 2001 attack was the deadliest terrorist attack in the United States. Perpetrated by terrorist group al-Qaeda, over 3,000 people died and around 6,000 people were injured. Furthermore, it caused long-term health problems for those who survived such as cancer and other respiratory diseases. The World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed and a portion of the Pentagon was severely damaged as a result of three different airplanes crashing into them. Following the attack, the United States declared the War on Terror and invaded Afghanistan. Additionally, the Homeland Security Act was introduced. It created the Department of Homeland Security, which seeks to protect civilians within and outside the borders of the United States and respond to terrorist attacks. However, nearly half of U.S. citizens said that they were only somewhat satisfied with the government’s response to 9/11.


Honestly JP... going to a random statistic website as a resource for defining terrorism is kinda weak argumenting on your part.

The FBI's terrorism website breaks the term into two categories: International Terrorism and Domestic Terrorism. They are both valid under the umbrella term of terrorism, by our own Gov't.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

Terrorism Definitions
International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.


I'm not agreeing with what anyone else has said, just clearing up what the definition of terrorism is by those creating/enforcing those definitions in the USA



A 2017 report by The Nation Institute and Center for Investigative Reporting looked at the terrorist incidents in the US between 2008 and 2016.
It found:

115 Far right inspired terror incidents. 35% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 29% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 79 deaths.
63 Islamist inspired terror incidents. 76% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 13% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 90 deaths.
19 Far left inspired terror incidents. 20% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 10% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 7 deaths.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:23 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:White supremacists are responsible for two-thirds of all terror attacks originating in the US. What should be done about this?


are we seeing ralf's spots and true colors now showing??

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591079/number-of-terrorist-attacks-in-united-states/

n 2019, there were 68 terrorist attacks in the United States. This is a significant increase from the 18 terrorist attacks that occurred in 2008.
Terrorism in the United States

Terrorism in the United States is seen as an act of violence with the motive to create ideological change. Terrorism in the United States is usually associated with Islamic terrorism and does not always consider ring-wing motives as terrorism. Since the September 11, 2001 attack, most terror acts committed on United States soil were perpetrated by U.S. born citizens. Additionally, since 1970, bombing/explosion type attacks were the most common type of terror attacks in the United States. 2017 saw the highest number of fatalities in terrorist attacks since 2001.
9/11 Attack

The September 11, 2001 attack was the deadliest terrorist attack in the United States. Perpetrated by terrorist group al-Qaeda, over 3,000 people died and around 6,000 people were injured. Furthermore, it caused long-term health problems for those who survived such as cancer and other respiratory diseases. The World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed and a portion of the Pentagon was severely damaged as a result of three different airplanes crashing into them. Following the attack, the United States declared the War on Terror and invaded Afghanistan. Additionally, the Homeland Security Act was introduced. It created the Department of Homeland Security, which seeks to protect civilians within and outside the borders of the United States and respond to terrorist attacks. However, nearly half of U.S. citizens said that they were only somewhat satisfied with the government’s response to 9/11.


Honestly JP... going to a random statistic website as a resource for defining terrorism is kinda weak argumenting on your part.

The FBI's terrorism website breaks the term into two categories: International Terrorism and Domestic Terrorism. They are both valid under the umbrella term of terrorism, by our own Gov't.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

Terrorism Definitions
International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.


I'm not agreeing with what anyone else has said, just clearing up what the definition of terrorism is by those creating/enforcing those definitions in the USA


Mookie, I already LOOKED there and did not see much data during my short look there at the FBI site. There was LOTS to read (such as the definitions you cite and that I read) and little data presented during my 5 minute search there. SO I went elsewhere. I do recall stats by Gender and by state, BUT not by "white supremacists or by "American-born"

If you have better evidence to enlighten ALL of us, please share, Mookie.

And, I am getting the distinct impression that citing facts to bigralf is worthless as he has ignored the facts that I posted that refutes his allegations. Further, he has resorted instead to personal attacks against me. SO why bother spending MORE time to look for more facts from numerous websites or reading LOTS to get to better data? I think what I have already cited will suffice.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby mookiemcgee on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:39 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:White supremacists are responsible for two-thirds of all terror attacks originating in the US. What should be done about this?


are we seeing ralf's spots and true colors now showing??

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591079/number-of-terrorist-attacks-in-united-states/

n 2019, there were 68 terrorist attacks in the United States. This is a significant increase from the 18 terrorist attacks that occurred in 2008.
Terrorism in the United States

Terrorism in the United States is seen as an act of violence with the motive to create ideological change. Terrorism in the United States is usually associated with Islamic terrorism and does not always consider ring-wing motives as terrorism. Since the September 11, 2001 attack, most terror acts committed on United States soil were perpetrated by U.S. born citizens. Additionally, since 1970, bombing/explosion type attacks were the most common type of terror attacks in the United States. 2017 saw the highest number of fatalities in terrorist attacks since 2001.
9/11 Attack

The September 11, 2001 attack was the deadliest terrorist attack in the United States. Perpetrated by terrorist group al-Qaeda, over 3,000 people died and around 6,000 people were injured. Furthermore, it caused long-term health problems for those who survived such as cancer and other respiratory diseases. The World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed and a portion of the Pentagon was severely damaged as a result of three different airplanes crashing into them. Following the attack, the United States declared the War on Terror and invaded Afghanistan. Additionally, the Homeland Security Act was introduced. It created the Department of Homeland Security, which seeks to protect civilians within and outside the borders of the United States and respond to terrorist attacks. However, nearly half of U.S. citizens said that they were only somewhat satisfied with the government’s response to 9/11.


Honestly JP... going to a random statistic website as a resource for defining terrorism is kinda weak argumenting on your part.

The FBI's terrorism website breaks the term into two categories: International Terrorism and Domestic Terrorism. They are both valid under the umbrella term of terrorism, by our own Gov't.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

Terrorism Definitions
International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.


I'm not agreeing with what anyone else has said, just clearing up what the definition of terrorism is by those creating/enforcing those definitions in the USA


Mookie, I already LOOKED there and did not see much data during my short look there at the FBI site. There was LOTS to read (such as the definitions you cite and that I read) and little data presented during my 5 minute search there. SO I went elsewhere. I do recall stats by Gender and by state, BUT not by "white supremacists or by "American-born"

If you have better evidence to enlighten ALL of us, please share, Mookie.

And, I am getting the distinct impression that citing facts to bigralf is worthless as he has ignored the facts that I posted that refutes his allegations. Further, he has resorted instead to personal attacks against me. SO why bother spending MORE time to look for more facts from numerous websites or reading LOTS to get to better data? I think what I have already cited will suffice.



I did, and added it to my post above before you posted this... while it certainly doesn't say 'by race' who the terrorists were, but it does break it down by ideology. It's pretty undeniable that far right domestic extremists have commit more attacks, with greater efficiency in killing than islamists and far left domestic terrorists COMBINED (there aren't any foreign far right extremist attacks in the USA that I am aware of)

With that said the premise of this particular thread is still stupid and ridiculous.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:39 pm

jp: WHERE IS THE DATA
mookie: *provides data*
jp: WHERE IS THE DATA

Think the AntiIslamBot's had a script error or something.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:41 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:Why would the 'international community' do anything about it? Are American white nationalists suicide bombing in Zimbabwe and I missed the news?


The US overthrow of Gadaffi, Hussein, attempted overthrow of Syria etc were all the product of White Man's Burden.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:50 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:jp: WHERE IS THE DATA
mookie: *provides data*
jp: WHERE IS THE DATA

Think the AntiIslamBot's had a script error or something.


ralf is confused between data and definitions. BOTH start with D, as in DUHHHH..! :lol:

and that should be anti-Islam. Like I already said, learn to use a spell checker. or did he mean Anti-SLAM-bot..?? and you misspelled Ralph, too.

As I already implied, facts do not matter to ralf, ONLY his vitriolic and false rhetoric are of consequence to him.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby Doc_Brown on Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:07 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:I did, and added it to my post above before you posted this... while it certainly doesn't say 'by race' who the terrorists were, but it does break it down by ideology. It's pretty undeniable that far right domestic extremists have commit more attacks, with greater efficiency in killing than islamists and far left domestic terrorists COMBINED (there aren't any foreign far right extremist attacks in the USA that I am aware of)

With that said the premise of this particular thread is still stupid and ridiculous.

It's been said that the 3 types of untruths are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The conclusion you drew from the numbers is an accurate one. Another way to look at the data is the number of deaths per attack:
33 successful Far right inspired terror incidents with fatalities resulted in 79 deaths, for a fatality rate of 2.4 per attack.
8 successful Islamist inspired terror incidents with fatalities resulted in 90 deaths, for a fatality rate of 11.3 per attack.
2 successful Far left inspired terror incidents with fatalities resulted in 7 deaths, for a fatality rate of 3.5 per attack.

So an equally accurate conclusion is that while far right extremists may have more incidents, they are easily the least deadly. Islamic extremists are far more effective at killing people than any other group (both in raw deaths and deaths per attack).
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby mookiemcgee on Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:57 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:I did, and added it to my post above before you posted this... while it certainly doesn't say 'by race' who the terrorists were, but it does break it down by ideology. It's pretty undeniable that far right domestic extremists have commit more attacks, with greater efficiency in killing than islamists and far left domestic terrorists COMBINED (there aren't any foreign far right extremist attacks in the USA that I am aware of)

With that said the premise of this particular thread is still stupid and ridiculous.

It's been said that the 3 types of untruths are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The conclusion you drew from the numbers is an accurate one. Another way to look at the data is the number of deaths per attack:
33 successful Far right inspired terror incidents with fatalities resulted in 79 deaths, for a fatality rate of 2.4 per attack.
8 successful Islamist inspired terror incidents with fatalities resulted in 90 deaths, for a fatality rate of 11.3 per attack.
2 successful Far left inspired terror incidents with fatalities resulted in 7 deaths, for a fatality rate of 3.5 per attack.

So an equally accurate conclusion is that while far right extremists may have more incidents, they are easily the least deadly. Islamic extremists are far more effective at killing people than any other group (both in raw deaths and deaths per attack).


Are you getting hung up on the word efficient is that it? I could have chose a better word... and in principle I'd agree that stats never tell the whole story and can be twisted.

None the less, far right inspired terrorists are attempting and are successful in more attacks that islamists. When people bring things like this up, it's no to stay Islamic terrorist aren't a problem. They most certainly are going to continue to attempt large scale attacks on America... it's just also worth noting since it goes against many Americans intuition that US citizens who tend to believe in white nationalism are also planning and executing terrorist acts that kill other US citizens.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:17 am

The good people of this forum have opted for drone strikes. Which white supremacist strongholds should we target? Connecticut?
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby HitRed on Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:21 am

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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 am

mookiemcgee wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:White supremacists are responsible for two-thirds of all terror attacks originating in the US. What should be done about this?


are we seeing ralf's spots and true colors now showing??

https://www.statista.com/statistics/591079/number-of-terrorist-attacks-in-united-states/

n 2019, there were 68 terrorist attacks in the United States. This is a significant increase from the 18 terrorist attacks that occurred in 2008.
Terrorism in the United States

Terrorism in the United States is seen as an act of violence with the motive to create ideological change. Terrorism in the United States is usually associated with Islamic terrorism and does not always consider ring-wing motives as terrorism. Since the September 11, 2001 attack, most terror acts committed on United States soil were perpetrated by U.S. born citizens. Additionally, since 1970, bombing/explosion type attacks were the most common type of terror attacks in the United States. 2017 saw the highest number of fatalities in terrorist attacks since 2001.
9/11 Attack

The September 11, 2001 attack was the deadliest terrorist attack in the United States. Perpetrated by terrorist group al-Qaeda, over 3,000 people died and around 6,000 people were injured. Furthermore, it caused long-term health problems for those who survived such as cancer and other respiratory diseases. The World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed and a portion of the Pentagon was severely damaged as a result of three different airplanes crashing into them. Following the attack, the United States declared the War on Terror and invaded Afghanistan. Additionally, the Homeland Security Act was introduced. It created the Department of Homeland Security, which seeks to protect civilians within and outside the borders of the United States and respond to terrorist attacks. However, nearly half of U.S. citizens said that they were only somewhat satisfied with the government’s response to 9/11.


Honestly JP... going to a random statistic website as a resource for defining terrorism is kinda weak argumenting on your part.

The FBI's terrorism website breaks the term into two categories: International Terrorism and Domestic Terrorism. They are both valid under the umbrella term of terrorism, by our own Gov't.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

Terrorism Definitions
International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.


I'm not agreeing with what anyone else has said, just clearing up what the definition of terrorism is by those creating/enforcing those definitions in the USA


Mookie, I already LOOKED there and did not see much data during my short look there at the FBI site. There was LOTS to read (such as the definitions you cite and that I read) and little data presented during my 5 minute search there. SO I went elsewhere. I do recall stats by Gender and by state, BUT not by "white supremacists or by "American-born"

If you have better evidence to enlighten ALL of us, please share, Mookie.

And, I am getting the distinct impression that citing facts to bigralf is worthless as he has ignored the facts that I posted that refutes his allegations. Further, he has resorted instead to personal attacks against me. SO why bother spending MORE time to look for more facts from numerous websites or reading LOTS to get to better data? I think what I have already cited will suffice.



I did, and added it to my post above before you posted this... while it certainly doesn't say 'by race' who the terrorists were, but it does break it down by ideology. It's pretty undeniable that far right domestic extremists have commit more attacks, with greater efficiency in killing than islamists and far left domestic terrorists COMBINED (there aren't any foreign far right extremist attacks in the USA that I am aware of)

With that said the premise of this particular thread is still stupid and ridiculous.


Mookie,

#1: you are exactly right; the premise of this thread is INDEED till stupid and ridiculous.

#2 I am glad that you admitted to adding stats AFTER you posted what I responded to. (I quoted what I responded to, when I did so.)

#3 I am sure that ralf will ignore both # 1 & #2.

#4 I am becoming more convinced that ralf ignores facts presented AND instead favors his wild speculations and opinions. These opinions are already formed and will not be altered, in spite of massive and cogent evidence, data, or logic that clearly shows how wrong he is.

#5 ralf is trying to achieve the level of a troll that saxi has already well-established.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:19 am

'ralf ignores facts' is an ironic statement from a guy whose response to a statement highlighting rampant Islamophobia and suppression of Muslims in Western countries is to sidestep that point and start rambling about ISIS.

fp, do you think any of the following are reasonable?
- banning headscarves
- banning burkinis
- banning construction of minarets
- banning travel from Muslim countries
- referring teenagers to anti-extremism programmes for simply discussing Palestine or saying 'alhumdulillah' (thanks be to God)
- the media fixating on the 'faith' of self-styled jihadist terrorists, while providing mental health justifications for white terrorists
- etc

If none, will you accept that Muslims are treated unfairly in the West due to a post-9/11 rise in public and official Islamophobia, without immediately adding three paragraphs of text ranting about not wanting your children to be raped by jihadis?
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:35 am

Given jp's track record in writing lengthy responses to every post ever addressed to him, we'll take his silence here as a concession.

Thank you jp for taking the time to reflect on the Islamophobia your society has exposed you to, and consequently rethinking some of your perspectives.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:45 am

News in global white supremacy: 10 innocent civilians murdered because white people can't tell the difference between a family of Muslims and an ISIS cell.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0919/124764 ... ne-strike/
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:28 pm

ralf overstates his case, again. OBFUSCATION.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:29 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:'ralf ignores facts' is an ironic statement from a guy whose response to a statement highlighting rampant Islamophobia and suppression of Muslims in Western countries is to sidestep that point and start rambling about ISIS.

fp, do you think any of the following are reasonable?
- banning headscarves
- banning burkinis
- banning construction of minarets
- banning travel from Muslim countries
- referring teenagers to anti-extremism programmes for simply discussing Palestine or saying 'alhumdulillah' (thanks be to God)
- the media fixating on the 'faith' of self-styled jihadist terrorists, while providing mental health justifications for white terrorists
- etc

If none, will you accept that Muslims are treated unfairly in the West due to a post-9/11 rise in public and official Islamophobia, without immediately adding three paragraphs of text ranting about not wanting your children to be raped by jihadis?


false
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby bigtoughralf on Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:45 pm

You think there is no unfair treatment of Muslims in the West? You need to open your eyes a little bro.
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Re: Tackling white supremacist violence

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:55 pm

Racism and discrimination are everywhere. Even Muslims discriminate against other Muslims.

But your basic premise is WRONG. My eyes are open. Your brain and your ears are NOT. As far as your eyes, you're myopic.
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