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Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

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Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:45 pm

The earth is on fire. Anybody who's still in denial is a fucking idiot.

Last year when half of Australia burned down, Rupert Murdoch and his sycophantic toadies cooked up a conspiracy theory about Australians deliberately burning the place down. This year, it was Canada's turn, and even Murdoch didn't think he could sell anyone a bullshit story about Canadians deliberately burning down Canada.

I remember going outside one morning, on my way to work, and smelling a wood fire. "Neighbours must be having a bonfire," was my first thought. And then my second thought was, "6:00 a.m. is an awful weird time to be having a bonfire." I started worrying if there was a house fire in my neighbourhood, scanning all the houses. Finally, I realized what I was smelling. It was the great fire in Northern Ontario. It was more than 500 miles away from me, and I could smell it as if it was next door. 500 miles. For three days that smell hung over us, until the wind changed direction. At times it was enough to make your eyes water. Anybody who doubts how interconnected we all are should experience a forest fire from 500 miles away.

As impressive as our Canadian fires were this year, it's nothing compared to Siberia's forest fire season. The forest fires in Siberia dwarfed all other forest fires on earth combined. More than 17.5 million hectares (43 million acres) burned down.

Forest fires form a positive-feedback loop in global warming. Plants take carbon from the air, use it to make cellulose, and take it out of circulation. Trees are very big plants, they store a lot of carbon. But when they die, the carbon can be released. If we're lucky, the trees fall down, their cellulose is buried under soil, and after sinking in the earth for 500 million years it will one day be coal that (we hope) some advanced society of the future will be wise enough not to burn. If we are not lucky, the trees burn and release their carbon right away. We think of our forests as carbon-storage area, but it is only short-term storage. (Yes, some trees can live for thousands of years. The vast majority have much shorter lives, a century or less.) Trees die, and whether they die peacefully and put their carbon down into the soil, or whether they die violently in a fire, determines whether the short-term storage becomes long-term storage or not. A big forest fire represents a massive failure in converting short-term to long-term carbon storage.

The denialists will be quick to remind you that forest fires have always happened and always will, that they are a normal part of nature. True enough. But forest normally grow in areas with plenty of rainfall. If a place had no rainfall, a forest wouldn't have grown there in the first place. Under normal conditions, a forest fire spreads only slowly in the well-hydrated forest, and once the wind changes direction that is enough for the fire to extinguish itself. A natural fire in a healthy forest might burn only a couple hundred acres. We've warmed the climate enough that we've turned once-rainy areas into dry areas. Forest fires there can burn thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of acres. We've primed the pump of global warming, but the positive feedback loops magnify the harm.

Forest fires are one kind of positive feedback loop. Another are clathrates. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. Luckily, methane is hydrophilic, and most of the free methane in the world is trapped in complex molecules called clathrates. Clathrates are basically little tiny ice cubes, where one methane molecule is encased in crystal lattice of water molecules. They are heavier than air, so they sink to the ground. However, they are only stable below the freezing point of water, so if they only go into long-term storage if they sink to the ground in a cold place. Most of the world's clathrates then, are stuck either in the ocean bed of the cold circum-polar waters, or in the permafrost of the Arctic. As the world warms, however, the permafrost melts and clathrates are released. They in turn free methane which increases the greenhouse effect and multiplies the effects of warming.

It is believed that during the "Great Dying" at the end of the Permian era, a great many clathrates were released simultaneously, which resulted in a sudden and catastrophic acceleration in the warming that was already occurring at that time. Some refer to it as the "clathrate gun" because of the suddenness and destructive power with which it goes off. It's happening again.

A third positive feedback loop is increasing polar albedo. Ice is shiny; it reflects much of the energy the sun throws at it. When ice melts, the darker rocks, soils, or liquid water left behind absorb much more solar energy than ice does. Consequently, the less ice we have, the more solar radiation we absorb. The earth is now losing 1.2 trillion tons of ice every year; glaciers everywhere are shrinking. Mid-latitude glaciers are hardest hit -- Mount Kenya is now almost ice-free, and Kilimanjaro has lost 73 percent of its ice. The decline is less dramatic as one gets closer to the poles, but still enormous. The Alps have lost 50% of their ice in the last 200 years, so have the Caucasus. As one gets closer to the poles the change seems small in percentage terms. Greenland has probably lost less than 0.1% of its ice in the last decade, but that is still Gigatonnes of ice per year! 247 Gt in the four years from 2012 to 2016!

All these positive feedback loops vastly increase the magnitude of the warming we cause directly through burning fossil fuels. The big three that I've mentioned are not an exhaustive list. When we bulldoze forests to make cropland, we are further destroying our carbon storage; when we then bulldoze that cropland (green) and replace it with a highway (black) we are further increasing the albedo of the earth. In a dozen ways, large and small, we are constantly making it worse for ourselves.

For all these reasons, I believe that we still are vastly underestimating just how bad it's going to get. When people finally wake up and realize it's time to change their ways, it may already be too late. After we finally stop burning fossil fuels, it will take another 20 or 30 years before the positive feedback loops stop yielding temperature gain. We may come very close to extinction.

Scientists are a very conservative bunch. So far, the growth in temperature has been much higher than predicted.

Denialists like to scoff at the so-called "hockey stick graph", but we are in it. The "hockey stick" is just a popular description of the shape of a hyperbola, and a hyperbola is what we have on our hands. The climate has warmed roughly 1 degree in the last century. Half of that was in the last 25 years. A quarter of it was in the last six years. Just looking at those facts tells you immediately that some kind of exponential curve is involved. Looking at the line of best fit reinforces this.
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Shit is going to get real. Not in some distant future, but in our lifetime. I hope we pull up before we crash into the mountain, but either way, there will be a lot of pain and suffering involved.
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby riskllama on Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:32 am

duk wins this thread.
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby HitRed on Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:34 am

It was rigged.
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby ConfederateSS on Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:41 am

--------Who is arguing the Earth is on fire....But on fire by Nature(The Greater Force above)...not Mankind.....Please ,such language...Duk...Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong...Just Human... ;) ... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:36 pm

ConfederateSS wrote:--------Who is arguing the Earth is on fire....But on fire by Nature(The Greater Force above)...not Mankind.....Please ,such language...Duk...Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong...Just Human... ;) ... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)


How often are Human IDIOTS NOT wrong? Twice a day, like a broken (analog) clock? And are they only right about Global Warming?

......JUS asking, for a friend..... :D :lol:
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:21 pm

We just need to fart less.

I am now starting a movement to ban all hot sauces and Mexican food.
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:32 pm

DirtyDishSoap wrote:We just need to fart less.

I am now starting a movement to ban all hot sauces and Mexican food.


Any BIT helps, but I doubt that such an idea will be significantly helpful. We need less bovine flatus, too. And TERMITES contribute to the methane emissions as well.
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby bigtoughralf on Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:16 pm

Presumably jp will be doing his bit by stopping eating beef then?
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:21 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:Presumably jp will be doing his bit by stopping eating beef then?


I will not eat sheep, and that would help the problem, too. Do you eat sheep, ralf? or only the goats?
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby bigtoughralf on Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:26 pm

I'm vegetarian
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:26 pm

To return to the point of this thread:

To me, one of the MANY striking pieces of evidence is the startling retreat of glaciers.

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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:36 pm

https://climate.nasa.gov/images-of-change/?id=684#684-vavilov-ice-cap-glacier-accelerates

Try the link above and you can go from before to after by Sliding the bar to compare. there are very striking images of the retreat of glaciers and the shrinking of ice caps in the polar regions. There is a whole set of before and after "interactive" images at that URL.

I tried to directly post the image above, but was unable to do so.

And lots more here:
https://climate.nasa.gov/resources/graphics-and-multimedia/?page=0&per_page=25&order=pub_date+desc&search=&condition_1=1%3Ais_in_resource_list
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:43 pm

one more link:

Watching the Land Temperature Bell Curve Heat Up (1950-2020)

May 13, 2021
This visualization shows that as land temperatures have increased since 1950, hotter days have become more common and colder days have become less common.

When the bell curve becomes shorter, one can see more data trending toward the right, revealing hotter days.

Learn more and download the video here: https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/details.cgi?aid=4891.

Credit
NASA's Scientific Visualization Studio
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby riskllama on Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:27 am

ladies & gentlemen, i believe we have CC's first sextuple post!!! take a bow, jp... =D>
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby bigtoughralf on Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:05 pm

I love how energized he is about trying to prove something that's already been proven. Next he's gonna start a thread debunking the flat earth theory.
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:06 am

bigtoughralf wrote:I love how energized he is about trying to prove something that's already been proven. Next he's gonna start a thread debunking the flat earth theory.


Since ralf is new to CC, I suppose he has no idea that there was a major discussion on CC about the evidence for Global Warming. He was not exposed the climate deniers that were arguing against man-made global warming.

Here are a few that I found

Re: Nasa: 50 years of global cooling thanks to Grand Minimum
Postby mrswdk on Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:00 am

tzor wrote:
By the way, the first thing was actually a major element of the "first" (episode IV) Star Wars movie



Yet more proof that these so-called 'climate scientists' are actually just peddling childish nonsense.

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=231618&hilit=Global+Warming&p=5125165&view=show#p5125165


Re: Nasa: 50 years of global cooling thanks to Grand Minimum
Postby NomadPatriot on Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:55 pm
have spent a lot of time ridiculing the notion of 'humans are causing global warming"

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=231618&p=5125038&hilit=Global+Warming#p5125038

Two of the biggest global warming deniers are no longer on CC posting things. So ralf can be forgiven if he does not understand the passion that some of have on this topic.

and JUST one more, for the FUN of it:

Re: Is Global Warming The Greatest Lie In Human History?
Postby Bigbullets on Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:31 am

Human's produce less than .04% of the CO2.

If there is global warming, humans certainly aren't causing it.

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=228401&hilit=Global+Warming&start=25
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby bigtoughralf on Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:43 am

So you're arguing with people who aren't even here?

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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby ConfederateSS on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:16 am

---------Just be Kool for a moment...See what I did..But for real....This isn't a slap at the thread...But ,GOD created the Earth...But don't get into that right now.....
----------The Earth......The Earth was Hot to start with....No Ice Caps...One Giant Warm Land Mass... Pangaea... Surrounded by One Super Ocean....Panthalassa.....Later for a Period...Running 60 million years(I like how the scientists keep terms in( the 60 millionish ranges...)..anyway The Period Called Carboniferous... Where the Earth itself created carbon coal formations...One Ice cap...not 2....It was a HELL of a lot warmer then ,A world of Water all over the place....One Ice Cap...One Land Mass...Why is everyone tripping....The Earth made it's own Heated Planet...Then it's own Ice Age...Then later on ,GOD made Adam and Eve...stuck us on the Planet...That is another story,for another day....Chill out people...The Earth is just coming around in a circle....Deal with it...
-----------It is Not Humans but Nature/GOD's will...should the Earth turn hot or cold... :D ...But Humans like to feel Big and Cry over everything, they have no control over...Or try to...Hell ,Crack Head Waco Bill Gates...Wants to,is developing a plan to Block out the SUN....Yeah, that will help The Earth and it's Earthlings..Block out the SUN :roll: :roll: :roll: ...Just stop worrying,trying to Play GOD and Mother Nature...It never turns out good...Humans always end up,getting burnt in the End...Time after time...Just Stop People, just stop...
... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)....
--------Short gist of The History lesson to the people who think carbon...Adds to Heating the Earth...The Carbon Period ,brought down oxygen levels in the atmosphere...Caused the Earth to KOOL down and form it's 1st Icecap and glaciers...The sea levels to drop....Try again...Global Warmers...come up with another excuse....;)....Go back to aerosol sprays ...Ha!Ha!Ha!...Hate to break the bad news... Everything has carbon in it...It is the most abundant thing everywhere...
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:03 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:I love how energized he is about trying to prove something that's already been proven. Next he's gonna start a thread debunking the flat earth theory.


and, you were saying...?
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Re: Global Warming [Comment by mortals only, please]

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:54 am

ConfSS,

Just because there have been periods of hot and cold (or, warmer and cooler) climate cycles before goes not explain the current Global Warming.
You try to DISMISS all the overwhelming scientific evidence with a broad statement about the earth warming and cooling in the past. Other deniers try (unsuccessfully) to blame this on the sun cycles.

You are not looking at the data. You merely say things like
Caused the Earth to KOOL down


Or you are NOT looking at the data carefully. You see a forest but you do not see the trees. To take the analogy further, by looking at and ONLY seeing a green forest, you fail to see the diseased and dying trees within that forest. You have to examine the details.

Additionally, temperature ALONE is the ONLY evidence for global warming. Do you understand the Greenhouse effect? Do you know the role of CO2 (and methane, or natural gas or CH4) in the Greenhouse effect? Did you see my post (graph) on the rising CO2 as measured by the station on Mauna Loa in Hawaii?

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=228407&start=100

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Did you notice the receding glaciers and polar ice caps? Those photos are posted ABOVE in this thread. In addition to the rising CO2 Levels, these photos are for me the MOST COGENT evidence to support that man, burning fossil fuels and releasing TONS of CO2 everyday, that Global Warming is REAL and is caused by humans.

There is supporting evidence from rising sea levels by the melting ice caps, but I have not looked at that data SPECIFICALLY.

ConfSS: Please open both eyes and try to be open-minded and not look at such data and facts with a CLOSED mind prejudiced by a pre-determined view shaped by those who do not understand Science, such as Rush Limbaugh. He was not a scientist and all his pronouncements on the topic SHOWED that he did not comprehend the details, mechanisms, and data that explain man-made Global Warming
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