Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
In the mean time, here are some good quotes by three smart players from this thread:
Moya wrote:It is not bones who stopped b00060 from continuing his tournaments. It never is the bullet that kills people. It's the guy who pulls the trigger and for that part it was b00060 who pulled the trigger and stopped his tournaments just by not agreeing with someone elses opinion. I think that's not very bright.
bones is trying to form a discussion about how things are working. The idea is to get a result out of this. Not to attack other people. There is no reading between the lines and secret indirect attempts to undermine someones doings. It's just a simple and plain discussion about how things are working with the attempt to make them better in the end.
I think there are a few things that are fact here for everyone of us:
1. Everybody loves tournaments. The more tournaments, the better.
2. Everybody loves variety because we as humans are curious.
3. Everybody loves to find his very special tournament very quick.
My opinion:
@1: Things should get better organized by making the game search function work not just for the smaller single games but for tournaments as such because, as I stated a few posts above, a forum is by it's original meaning a place for conversations and discussions.
@2: Some of us like easier tournaments, some of us like leagues and all of us like to try out new things and new ideas on how to play tournaments. --> The game search function has to be refurbished.
@3: Even though some of you find them faster and are perfectly comfortable how things are, some (maybe even a lot) of us just don't like to stroll through 2 or 3 pages to find the one that's fitting for them. I personally hated the way of joining tournaments from day one. Why? Because everybody has it's own style of telling someone what the tournament is about and how it is played etc. Things get very confusing from time to time because of language and weak organizing skills. --> Game search function needs to be refurbished.
Therefore I beg you guys: Stop flaming and STAY WITH THE TOPIC. This is an open discussion. And nobody should need tissues
denominator wrote:First of all, the poll is absolute bullshit now. I won't post either of the PMs that I received in the public thread, as I believe it's against the rules somewhere, but I have now received two PMs sent out by tournament organizers that smear Bones and encourage players to come to the thread and fight with Bones or vote against Bones in the poll. I somehow suspect that these people PMing us are breaking the rules as well, and at the very least it is disrespectful and pitiful.
This is not about HighlanderAttack, b00060, Blitzaholic, or anyone else running poor tournaments. It is not about that now, and it wasn't at the beginning. If you read the whole thread, you can note that Bones never named names until others brought it up (myself being one of them - and I apologize for that now). Even then, Bones only pointed out that there are too many tournaments being posted at a time in the Create/Join a Tournament forum. Nobody here has attacked anyone's ability to actually run a tournament, simply that there are too many tournaments flooding the forums at once.
This is not about whether or not Bones has run a tournament. I have no idea why anyone started attacking Bones for his opinions, but his opinions from the point of a tournament player are entirely valid. This has nothing to do with anyone's ability to run a tournament. I would be quite happy to see anyone run hundreds of tournaments at once as long as they can run each one effectively and efficiently. However, I do agree with Bones on the core issue here.
If you look at the Create/Join a Tournament forum, some organizers (including HA, b00060, and Blitzy, as well as others) often create many tournaments at once. While this is a fine practice for those of us players that join all of the tournaments posted, it does not work for those who want to be more selective. It dilutes the pool of players joining the similar tournaments by the same organizer, as well as pushing the other tournaments out of the way, sometimes onto the second page.
Everyone seems to keep overlooking barterer's posts, but he has the best statement of anyone in the whole thread:barterer2002 wrote:Really I think what we're doing here is establish some etiquette for the TO forums. When you go play golf there is an etiquette that is generally followed. You don't drive into the group ahead of you, you don't talk during someones backswing. You don't walk between a ball and the hole on the green. When we go to a restaurant there is etiquette, we don't stand on the tables, we don't start shouting at people across the restaurant, we don't wash our hands in our water glasses. All of these things are things that we do not because there are rules in place, not because we can't do it, after all, we're the paying customer on either a golf course or at a restaurant, but because we function together as a society through etiquette.
What we're trying to do here is establish what is the etiquette going forward for tournaments. Part of that is understanding how that etiquette is communicated. How do we know not to dance on the table at a restaurant-because someone taught us, how do we know not to talk during a backswing-because someone taught us. In CC we don't have a mentor system for new tournament creation and I'm not suggesting that we should but maybe we should have a posting of etiquette to read where things like number of games in the Create/Join forum can be listed-whatever is decided.
Remember, we all have to live here and we're all volunteers, it behooves us to have some thoughts on how to get together to think not only of the tournament players but also of our fellow TOs. I also believe that what is past is past and that what we're discussing is how to handle things in the future.
It truly is all about etiquette in respect to your fellow organizers AND to the players. However, when the etiquette guidelines are not being followed, the best course of action is to implement rules.