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No alliance in tournament game ?

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No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby Donelladan on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:08 am

I am playing in the auto-tournament Flat Rate Classic. The games being no fog, and with round limit, they are most of the time won at the round limit. Therefore if I am not the leader, I always use game chat to organize attack against the leader and give everyone a shot at winning ( and especially me, of course).

Recently, as I was talking to some players explaining them my strategy to help everyone having a chance at winning, one player respond to me that I am not supposed to use diplomacy in tournaments.
I first laughed at him, telling him that it was ridiculous and that I've never heard of that.

He told me to go to the tournament tab, tournament handbook, player etiquette, and to read the number 6 that indeed says :
viewtopic.php?p=2141705#p2141705
DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY ALLIANCES. Secret diplomacy is against Conquer Club rules anyway, but even public alliances are greatly frowned upon in tournament games. Most tournaments are set up to lead to one winner, and most players will get upset if their methodical lead suddenly becomes double-teamed.




PS : I am not speaking about truce. If the part 6 of the player etiquette was supposed to referred to truce, then say "no truces in tournament games". Even if I would also disagree with that statement, it at least allow player to plan common action against a leader.
So, I am gently, nicely asking, WTF!?!?!??
I do not get it. Some settings can only be played using diplomacy.
Please remove the paragraph 6 of player etiquette from the handbook.
Diplomacy is part of Risk. Diplomacy is, imho, the essence of Risk. Withouth diplomacy Risk sucks!
I am speaking of one of the original Risk - meaning flat rate sunny chained standard. Without diplomacy I don't see why someone would ever play those settings.
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby Donelladan on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:05 am

Maybe one of the TD would be nice enough to answer me something ?
Last edited by Donelladan on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:57 am

*****
Last edited by BGtheBrain on Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby mcshanester29 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:44 pm

Donelladan wrote:Maybe one of the TD would be nice enough to answer me something ?


Sorry mate somehow missed this :oops:

What you are doing I don't see as an alliance its more making sure one person doesn't get an insurmountable lead. I personally have been in quite a few tournament games where I got double-teamed because I was the leader, its part of the game in my opinion as well.

We will look at changing the rule hear in the near future
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby shoop76 on Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:58 pm

mcshanester29 wrote:
Donelladan wrote:Maybe one of the TD would be nice enough to answer me something ?


Sorry mate somehow missed this :oops:

What you are doing I don't see as an alliance its more making sure one person doesn't get an insurmountable lead. I personally have been in quite a few tournament games where I got double-teamed because I was the leader, its part of the game in my opinion as well.

We will look at changing the rule hear in the near future


Change a rule that is not really a rule, but just suggested play. I for 1, wish there was a rule about diplomacy, secret or not, in tournaments. You run a serious risk in these tournaments with large game loads and the same players in each game playing this diplomacy for all games, not just 1. Kind of like I will help you out in this game and I will return the favor in the other.

But where is the limit? What is ok to say?

Just some examples here.

Can I get a card spot?
We need to attack player before he wins the game?
Let's not attack on border?
Let's not attack each other at all?
Don't attack me in this game and I won't attack you in other game.

Personally I'm fine with the first 1 and don't like the rest. Players should have enough cc sense to realize this themselves without having someone tell them this. In most tournaments the organizers make their own rules for this. However in autotournaments there is no organizer.

Then there is the guys that try to make truces with numerous players in 1 game. Is this ok? Personally I hate that crap.
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby Donelladan on Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:36 am

In most tournaments the organizers make their own rules for this.


Don't think I ever joined a tournament in which the organizers gave "diplomacy rules".

Just some examples here.

Can I get a card spot?
We need to attack player before he wins the game?
Let's not attack on border?
Let's not attack each other at all?
Don't attack me in this game and I won't attack you in other game.

Personally I'm fine with the first 1 and don't like the rest.


I am fine with all of them except the last one which would obviously be an abuse and would be punished by C and A if ever discovered.
Diplomacy, truce, are an important part of risk, I don't see why Risk Tournament should exclude them. Quite a non-sense to me.


You run a serious risk in these tournaments with large game loads and the same players in each game playing this diplomacy for all games, not just 1. Kind of like I will help you out in this game and I will return the favor in the other.


Just to be clear on this, this is cheating outside of tournament world, this of course would/should be cheating too inside of tournament.
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby IcePack on Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:14 am

There are some tournaments that strictly do rule out alliances. But I don't think that's the majority / normal.
Also, frowned upon doesn't mean against the rules. Though I agree the big capital letters don't give they impression.
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Re: No alliance in tournament game ?

Postby stealth99 on Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:37 pm

At a glance, the rule that is being debated here may seem inappropriate or wrong, but nothing could be further from the truth. This rule is currently preventing a lot of drama in our tourneys. I played here for 6 years before I played a single tourney. Now I only play tourneys (with very few exceptions). When I made that change in January, everything instantly changed in my games. No more fighting. No more broken truces. No more cheap play that drives you nuts. Stress level goes from one extreme to the other. I played diplomacy in every one of my games. Less than 1 in 2 end up resolving without problems.

There is no clear definition of what diplomacy even is. There is no common agreement on any of the typical truce terms that come up all the time. There is no clear definition of how truces can end. There is no clear definition of what "one round notice" even means. Furthermore, the site does not police diplomacy. 'Careful what you ask for here!

My understanding of the purpose behind this "very strongly" worded "suggestion" (for tourneys only) is for one reason and one reason only and that is to prevent a significant increase in player cheating. If you rule it out across the board, you completely eliminate one area of abuse.

Tournaments play was singled out for this "Rule" because of the added value. We want those medals, credits and stars. There is a very significant increase in the temptation to cheat.

Player cheating or abuse will occur in many forms. There will be the very obvious kind and the not so obvious kind. Take a look at what just occurred in one of my tourneys. I am playing the final round of a tourney with 4 players left, we are playing 4 player games.

2014-10-29 10:35:15 - muti: garbi if you break some of stealth's bonuses i in europe or the middle east i will let you keep taiwan next turn
2014-10-29 10:35:23 - muti: needs to be at least 2 bonuses


When the player who was threatened did not comply, he was indeed "punished" and it was indeed noted in the game chat.

When I called the player muti, on his antics he simply refers me to this thread, a discussion thread, as his bible.

That's one example of what we will be dealing with on an on-going basis if this rule is relaxed even a little; because apparently even the hint of discussion is enough for this guy.

If this rule is changed my win rate will go up, not down. The reason for this is that I will be forced to play a diplomacy game too. But I am constantly playing these tourneys with a zillion friends and acquaintances. Those are the people I will be making deals with, not players I don't know. So if you end up in my game and you don't have friends, you are immediately at a disadvantage. That is a form of "Secret" diplomacy abuse that will be rampant. We are constantly amongst very good friends or relatives in our games. We are often amongst clan mates.
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