Conquer Club

Baron Von PWN wrote:Harper proposes a one on one debate. Igantief calls his bluff. Harper refuses the debate with some more whipping of the dead coalition horse.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... tieff?bn=1

Yeah, I thought that was rather lame. I can see how that worked to get the NDP's attention off of Harper and onto the Liberals (split the opposition), but I was looking forward to a debate like that! A debate with Rick Mercer or Peter Mansbridge as moderator would have been awesome! Stephen Harper seems to be conducting an extremely conservative campaign, pardon the pun. He's been limiting questions from the press, limiting how close they can get to him, limiting debate times and such, which is good for avoiding possible mistakes; but right now, I'd like to see transparency and openness, not merely a perfect campaign. Why isn't he willing to take some risks and push hard for a majority rather than just maintaining the numbers he has? This is his third chance at it, and now he's been in power for a while without pushing through any far-right social agendas (which the opposition had been fearmongering about); he's been willing to concede a lot on spending (such as stimulus); and so far the main things held against his party tend to be fairly obscure issues which most Canadians either don't understand or don't care about. Plus Canada is doing great right now economically, compared to most of the rest of the world.

notyou2 wrote:I am nervous Harper will get a majority. He scares the hell out of me. He is like a dictator in an elected officials clothing.

yeah, and just to warn you, the bogeyman is hiding in your closet too. I'd be happy to see him get a majority and finally end all these minority governments.

Ray Rider wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:Harper proposes a one on one debate. Igantief calls his bluff. Harper refuses the debate with some more whipping of the dead coalition horse.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... tieff?bn=1

Yeah, I thought that was rather lame. I can see how that worked to get the NDP's attention off of Harper and onto the Liberals (split the opposition), but I was looking forward to a debate like that! A debate with Rick Mercer or Peter Mansbridge as moderator would have been awesome! Stephen Harper seems to be conducting an extremely conservative campaign, pardon the pun. He's been limiting questions from the press, limiting how close they can get to him, limiting debate times and such, which is good for avoiding possible mistakes; but right now, I'd like to see transparency and openness, not merely a perfect campaign. Why isn't he willing to take some risks and push hard for a majority rather than just maintaining the numbers he has? This is his third chance at it, and now he's been in power for a while without pushing through any far-right social agendas (which the opposition had been fearmongering about); he's been willing to concede a lot on spending (such as stimulus); and so far the main things held against his party tend to be fairly obscure issues which most Canadians either don't understand or don't care about. Plus Canada is doing great right now economically, compared to most of the rest of the world.

.

I think his campaing has been pretty lack luster so far, too controled, rigid, closed and unaproachable. hmm kind of like his government!
He's said it himself that he hasn't been able to "govern effectively" because of the opposition.Suggesting there is allot of stuff he'd like to do but can't. Some of his policies he was able to pass in even a minority government are worrying.

Such as the imposition of minimum scentencing, a policy that has failed abysmaly in the US(unless you coun't jailing 3% of your population as a goal in which case its been a great success!) doesen't reduce crime ,massively increases costs and was imposed when our crime rates are at historic lows.

If he can do that in a minority I don't want to see what he'l do in a Majority.

Liberal platform is being revealed this morning, and Ignatieff will be boldly taking more than 4 questions! from the public!!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... day-8.html

Live stream of the platform http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Canada/1 ... 1853655222
I like that they're having MPs from all over introducing the their platform. Not just the dear leader 24/7.

In other news Harper calls Canadians fat and introduces another tax credit which will come into effect in 4-5 years, maybe, if he ballances the budget. No word as to how many of the presses 4 alloted questions were used up.

Putin did a 4-6 hour interview supposedly unrehearsed and took many calls from the "public."

BigBallinStalin wrote:Putin did a 4-6 hour interview supposedly unrehearsed and took many calls from the "public."

You know he probably did, its all part of his benevolent Tsar thing who would solve all your problems, if only it weren't for those damn bumbling subordinates!

I'm sure some of them were plants but it isin't a stretch of the imagination to see him doing that.

Ray Rider wrote:yeah, and just to warn you, the bogeyman is hiding in your closet too. I'd be happy to see him get a majority and finally end all these minority governments.

What you said...but quoted

Ray Rider wrote:

notyou2 wrote:I am nervous Harper will get a majority. He scares the hell out of me. He is like a dictator in an elected officials clothing.

yeah, and just to warn you, the bogeyman is hiding in your closet too. I'd be happy to see him get a majority and finally end all these minority governments.

Thanks ray. It does not surprise me that you are all for less freedom and fewer rights.

The liberal election platform, has been released.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadav ... day-8.html

The big thing in it is their package for families, which includes

The Learning Passport plan, which would invest $1,000 over four years in the Registered Education Savings Plans of high school students, and $1,500 for low-income students. It would cost close to $1 billion.
The Early Childhood Learning and Care Fund, estimated to cost $1.2 billion over two years, for the provinces to create new child care spaces and train staff.
The Family Care plan involves a tax benefit for those caring for elderly parents or sick relatives worth up to $1,350 and an Employment Insurance benefit allowing caregivers to take up to six months off work
Enhancing the Canada Pension Plan and investing $700 million to boost the Guaranteed Income Supplement for low-income seniors
The Green Renovation Tax Credit, a permanent tax credit for homeowners of up to $13,500, would cost $400 million.


other promises

$180 million over four years to create a new Canada Service Corps to encourage volunteerism, which will involve forgiving $1,500 in student loans for young Canadians who volunteer.
The Liberals would bring back the Court Challenges Program cancelled by the Conservatives.
The Liberal government would direct Elections Canada to develop online voting as an option for Canadians.
A "people’s question period," where the prime minister and cabinet would respond directly to the public’s questions in a weekly online session.
Setting a goal of 100 per cent high-speed internet in rural areas.
$550 million for affordable housing
$300,000 for a Community Heroes Fund for the families of fallen officers
bringing back the long-form census


Their full platform. http://www.liberal.ca/platform/

The other parties haven't released their platforms yet.

Edit* Micheal Giest on the Digital economy section of the Liberal platform.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5720/125/

Subject: Information about Gonorrhea Lectim


*Information about Gonorrhea Lectim*

The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of this old disease. The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectim. It's pronounced "Gonna re-elect 'em," and it is a terrible disease. (Warning: a bit 'rude' but really important health information for all Canadians!)

The disease is contracted through dangerous and high risk behaviour involving putting your cranium up your rectum. Many victims contracted it when they re-elected the Stephen Harper government and are now starting to realize how destructive this sickness is.

It's sad because Gonorrhea Lectim is easily cured with a new drug just coming on the market called Votemout. It's pronounced "Vote-em-out". You take the first dose in 2011 or whenever and don't engage in such behaviour again; otherwise, it could become permanent and eventually wipe out all life as we know it in Canada.

Please pass this important message on to all those bright folks you really care about.

notyou2 wrote:Subject: Information about Gonorrhea Lectim


*Information about Gonorrhea Lectim*

The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of this old disease. The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectim. It's pronounced "Gonna re-elect 'em," and it is a terrible disease. (Warning: a bit 'rude' but really important health information for all Canadians!)

The disease is contracted through dangerous and high risk behaviour involving putting your cranium up your rectum. Many victims contracted it when they re-elected the Stephen Harper government and are now starting to realize how destructive this sickness is.

It's sad because Gonorrhea Lectim is easily cured with a new drug just coming on the market called Votemout. It's pronounced "Vote-em-out". You take the first dose in 2011 or whenever and don't engage in such behaviour again; otherwise, it could become permanent and eventually wipe out all life as we know it in Canada.

Please pass this important message on to all those bright folks you really care about.

lol that's actually pretty funny!

There are some things I'm not happy about with the Conservatives; I can't hold them up as the perfect party or anything, but they do align more closely to my political views than any other party.

1. I'm in favour of them focusing on getting rid of the deficit and refraining from making frivolous spending promises until they do so (we'll see how long it lasts)
2. I'm in favour of senate reform, which they are also (they have not yet had the power to do so, so in the mean time they made sure the senators they appointed are in favor of changes)
3. I'm in favour of corporate tax cuts (to encourage business growth and therefore new jobs in the private sector and an expanding economy)
4. I'm in favour of killing the long gun registry once and for all (it's been useless all along)
5. I'm in favour of real environmental protection measures, not Cap and Trade which is merely wealth redistribution by another name (even if it weren't, Canada cutting its minute, less than 2% of global GHG emissions would be utterly stupid if China and the US don't)
6. I'm in favour of strongly supporting Israel, the only real Western democracy in the Middle East, and one which has benefited the world greatly, especially in the areas of research and technology (one small personal benefit: my last laptop had an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, designed in Israel. Next up is the Intel Sandy Bridge processor, also designed there)
7. I'm in favour of allowing families the choice of where their children are taken care of; not leaving out of the loop those who choose to look after their children at home or by grandparents
8. I'm in favour of drastically refitting the Canadian military with up-to-date equipment in greater numbers (66,000 troops with outdated hardware isn't enough for the second-largest nation on earth)
9. I'm in favour of setting our own foreign policy, not tiptoeing around the interests of others while bending to every whim and fancy of the UN

etc. I'm running out of time, but when I get a chance I'd like to mention some of the things I like and dislike about the Liberals. BVP has already done a fine job of mentioning anything a person might dislike about the Conservatives, so I don't feel the need to recover that topic.

Anyone who thinks the NDP are only going to spend the country into the ground, should take a look at what they're accomplishing in Nova Scotia, lately.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1236759.html

It's almost like they know that, in order to pay for all the social programs they want, they need to get the finances under control first.

On a similar note, some say that Harper is actually quite happy with large deficits, and debt, because it helps him justify slashing social spending.

Timminz wrote:Anyone who thinks the NDP are only going to spend the country into the ground, should take a look at what they're accomplishing in Nova Scotia, lately.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1236759.html

It's almost like they know that, in order to pay for all the social programs they want, they need to get the finances under control first.

On a similar note, some say that Harper is actually quite happy with large deficits, and debt, because it helps him justify slashing social spending.

It is hard to compare the provincial and federal branches of the NDP (or the Liberals and Conservatives for that matter). When the NDP were in power in Ontario during the Bob Rae days, they cut provincial spending on almost everything from road projects (we had a highway to no where for almost 2 decades until a couple of years ago when the governing Liberals finished it and only because we had a local as a cabinet minister) to the infamous Rae Days.
I find there is a big disconnect from the provincial parties and the federal parties. That's how in my area anyway, we have NDP as our MP's and Liberals as our MPP's. So even though the NDP may be doing it right in your neck of the woods...federally I don't think you can make the link. Especially from everything Mr. Layton has said he is going to do "when" he is elected Prime Minister.

Tommy Douglas was another example of NDP behaving in the same way the current Nova Scotians are.

Isn't Bob Rae a Liberal?

US citizens - take note of civilized political discussion between Canadians (granted I only read the first and last pages of this thread).

Ray Rider wrote:
1. I'm in favour of them focusing on getting rid of the deficit and refraining from making frivolous spending promises until they do so (we'll see how long it lasts).

I'm very much in favour of this too. We are getting close to a historic high in terms of federal debt. However the liberals also have a plan to stop the deficit in the same time frame as the conservatives and I think their proposals have been very reasonable in terms of spending.

Ray Rider wrote:2. I'm in favour of senate reform, which they are also (they have not yet had the power to do so, so in the mean time they made sure the senators they appointed are in favor of changes)).

I'm not realy against this, and its an interesting idea. I just don't see it as a priority.

Ray Rider wrote:3. I'm in favour of corporate tax cuts (to encourage business growth and therefore new jobs in the private sector and an expanding economy).

In general, yes lower taxes= good. However we already have a realy competitive national rate, and putting it back to 18% will keep it competitive. If we have to choose between ballancing the budget and a slightly less competitive corprate tax rate, but still very competitive. I'll choose the budget.

Ray Rider wrote:4. I'm in favour of killing the long gun registry once and for all (it's been useless all along)

This is a pretty meh issue for me, however it doese have some law enforcement uses which I think are usefull. For instance it would make it easier to prosecute for stolen wepons, as you could track it back to its rightfull owner. Also the liberals are promising to make it less onery (get rid of fees, decriminalise first failure to register weapon). I wouldn't be heartbroken to see it killed though.

Ray Rider wrote:5. I'm in favour of real environmental protection measures, not Cap and Trade which is merely wealth redistribution by another name (even if it weren't, Canada cutting its minute, less than 2% of global GHG emissions would be utterly stupid if China and the US don't))

This is interessting one to me. What have the conservatives done on the environment? hardly anything as far as I can tell.They certainly haven't made any serious promices with this regard. Sure green retrofit is nice, but its pretty small potatoes. I'm not in favour of cap and trade either. A carbon tax is the way to go if we want to reduce emmissions, he may have been easily destroyed for being too booksih but Dion had it right.

Ray Rider wrote:6. I'm in favour of strongly supporting Israel, the only real Western democracy in the Middle East, and one which has benefited the world greatly, especially in the areas of research and technology (one small personal benefit: my last laptop had an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, designed in Israel. Next up is the Intel Sandy Bridge processor, also designed there)

Human rights violations are ok, so long as we get good microchips out of it? I recognise Isreals right to exist, I recognise it is a democracy (albeit with a limited franchise to to their de-facto control of large parts of palestinian territory). I don't see why we should ingore some of the serious problems they have in terms of human rights.

Ray Rider wrote:
7. I'm in favour of allowing families the choice of where their children are taken care of; not leaving out of the loop those who choose to look after their children at home or by grandparents

So are the liberals, they will be keeping the credit, as well as creating a fund for provinces to create day care services for people who don't have that luxury.

Ray Rider wrote:8. I'm in favour of drastically refitting the Canadian military with up-to-date equipment in greater numbers (66,000 troops with outdated hardware isn't enough for the second-largest nation on earth)

This is the one area i find myself in almost complete agreement with the conservatives (with the big exception of the fighter jets, a more open competition should have been held, though we do need new fighters). Our military has been neglected for a long time, totaly the liberals fault on that one. Unfortunetly I must admit I haven't anything to suggest they would reverse that.

Ray Rider wrote:
9. I'm in favour of setting our own foreign policy, not tiptoeing around the interests of others while bending to every whim and fancy of the UN)

Thats interesting. Why do you support the conservative foreing policy then? its mostly been " we'll do whatever the US doese". I haven't seen anything to impressive from the cons on this.

Ray Rider wrote:etc. I'm running out of time, but when I get a chance I'd like to mention some of the things I like and dislike about the Liberals. BVP has already done a fine job of mentioning anything a person might dislike about the Conservatives, so I don't feel the need to recover that topic.

Please do!I admit I'm pretty partisan, this is why i'd like you to do that. I want to see opposing views, I want to see why someone would support the conservatives. Those things chalenge my views and cause me to criticaly think about them. In my opinion this is why democracy works better than dictatorships, the constant challenges to the legitimacy of policy cause policy to be stronger.

I realy dislike Stephen Harper's politics, so you will mostly see me being critical of him and the conservatives. While I can find a number of things I support in his policies ( the military, deficit reduction), I find his style repulsive and undemocratic; silencing beuraucrats, federal scientists, only taking 5 questions from the press, the "Harper Government", perougueing parliament when things get tough, Attack adds outside election season,ect.

Timminz wrote:http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1236759.html

Any American visiting this thread should look at the comment section of this article and compare it to the comments of any article in any American online news source.

Timminz wrote:Tommy Douglas was another example of NDP behaving in the same way the current Nova Scotians are.

Isn't Bob Rae a Liberal?

He is a Liberal...but when he was in provincial politics he was a NDP and was Premier. He was a "star" Liberal candidate a few years ago when he jumped into the federal political spectrum. Why didn't he run as an NDP? Because the provincial NDP's are far different than the federal NDP's.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

I realy dislike Stephen Harper's politics, so you will mostly see me being critical of him and the conservatives. While I can find a number of things I support in his policies ( the military, deficit reduction), I find his style repulsive and undemocratic; silencing beuraucrats, federal scientists, only taking 5 questions from the press, the "Harper Government", perougueing parliament when things get tough, Attack adds outside election season,ect.

It has been quite a number of decades since a minority government has ruled for as long as our current one. Reason being? He is a bully? No. He is a smart politician and leader. He had made policy that was accepted enough by the public that if any of the other parties were to bring down his government there would be a huge backlash. The perougueing of parliament was again another move that in spite of what pundits and opposition may say, was legal under our rules of parliament. In regard to silencing bureaucrats and others...Cretian was just as notorious for that as anyone. Only difference being he had a majority and could do what ever he wanted. Five questions from the press...well...I think he is getting bad advice from his handlers. I don't see that continuing for too much longer. And the "Harper Government" thing. This isn't the first time the media has described the ruling government by their leaders name. It is a non-issue that people are making into a large issue. He is the Prime Minister...his party is the ruling government...so what is the problem?

keiths31 wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

I realy dislike Stephen Harper's politics, so you will mostly see me being critical of him and the conservatives. While I can find a number of things I support in his policies ( the military, deficit reduction), I find his style repulsive and undemocratic; silencing beuraucrats, federal scientists, only taking 5 questions from the press, the "Harper Government", perougueing parliament when things get tough, Attack adds outside election season,ect.

It has been quite a number of decades since a minority government has ruled for as long as our current one. Reason being? He is a bully? No. He is a smart politician and leader. He had made policy that was accepted enough by the public that if any of the other parties were to bring down his government there would be a huge backlash. The perougueing of parliament was again another move that in spite of what pundits and opposition may say, was legal under our rules of parliament. In regard to silencing bureaucrats and others...Cretian was just as notorious for that as anyone. Only difference being he had a majority and could do what ever he wanted. Five questions from the press...well...I think he is getting bad advice from his handlers. I don't see that continuing for too much longer. And the "Harper Government" thing. This isn't the first time the media has described the ruling government by their leaders name. It is a non-issue that people are making into a large issue. He is the Prime Minister...his party is the ruling government...so what is the problem?

The "Harper Government" thing isin't the media refering to the government as such. It is the replacing of every reference to "The Government of Canada" to the "Harper Government" in offical government releases. This attaches a partisan slant to what are supposed to be politicaly neutral institutions.

On porogation, It may have been completly legal, but its use to avoid a vote of non-confidence vote or prevent proper investigation of the governments witholding of information was completely unprecedented in Canadian history and in my opinion completely contrary to our democratic traditions. Its also been a number of decades since we've had minority governments, even when he's been trying his hardest to be inofensive as possible Canadians didin't vote for him.

Chretian did it too. Realy? Chretian required all interview requests of federal beuraucrats and scientists to be approved by the PMO? Also chretien was able to do that because he had a majority, and Harper is doing it now with a minority? good griefe what will he do with a Majority?

thegreekdog wrote:US citizens - take note of civilized political discussion between Canadians (granted I only read the first and last pages of this thread).

Are you calling me a communist pig herder???

You rotten liberal scoundrel!!!

Baron Von PWN wrote: good griefe what will he do with a Majority?

Hopefully everything he is doing now...

keiths31 wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote: good griefe what will he do with a Majority?

Hopefully everything he is doing now...

You've said yourself he is prevented from doing as he wishes by the opposition.

Oh and Harper shows his support for freedom of association.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadav ... ml?ref=rss

I know what I said. I like what he has done so far and have supported almost everything his government has brought to the table. I pay less taxes personally and in my business. With a majority I am hoping he continues on with what he is doing now...but also being able to get some of the other items pushed through (more money and equipment for the military, scrapping the long gun registry, senate reform).

Tea Party Propaganda Squad, Canada Division!