Conquer Club

vtmarik wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

unriggable wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Guilty_Biscuit wrote: Religious types can be pretty hardheaded.

Yeah, and we all know atheists are soooo open-minded.

When was the last time any atheist ever attacked somebody because of their lack of religion?

No, no, no. Atheists attack the religious for their faith.



And to the issue of which came first Judaism or Christianity.... They are in reality the same faith.(minus the Jesus factor) Christianity is the Jewish faith in its completeness. Oh and Jesus was around BEFORE 1 AD. (hint... He has always existed)

Jesus isn't God. The attribution "Son of God" is similar to the attribution of "Mahatma" (which means saint or great soul) to Ghandi. It is based on the perception of his life and teachings. Jesus never healed a single person, he always gave credit to those he healed saying "Your faith has healed you."

Yet people assume that he meant 'faith in me' or 'faith in God.'

Remember, when you make assumptions, you make an ass out of you and umption. [All credit to Samuel L. Jackson, for stealing his line.]


Oh, on a side note, regardless of his spiritual existence, he didn't corporeally exist. The schism between the already complete Judaism and the "Judaism, Now with Extra Jesus" that we now know as Christianity occurred around 70AD.

Oh contraire! Jesus is God! Genesis: "Let us create man in our image."


Jesus: "I and the Father are one"

The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Guilty_Biscuit wrote:Thanks bk, genius and colossus I think I've found out what I'm going to be reading for the next few months. I'm sure there is a lot of educated guess work involved in tracking back the origins of specific religions but I guess I'd like to know more.

I just finished a book by english theologian karen arsmtrong called 'the great transformation' which i highly recommend - it is a history of contemporary spirituality in around 700-400 BCE (chinese, greek, the israelites and india); and about how each society arrived at spiritual awakening/transcendence through different methods. There is a lot about yahweh, about how he managed to survive from a pantheon of local gods. The jews were treated terribly by the babylonians (and made some silly decisions themselves) and their laws were in part to maintain their cultural identity in the face of a constant threat of dilution. Yahweh was separated from the rest, too.

jesus is a person who got nailed to a stick.

jay_a2j wrote:No, no, no. Atheists attack the religious for their faith.

Feeling threatened?

How many atheists were out picketing in front of your church last Sunday?

Go pray again for wisdom...it didn't work last time.

jay_a2j wrote:The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Easy now, that's much too complicated.

Can you eat a pork chop wearing your polyester blend or not there chief? Perhaps more importantly, why?

Backglass wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:No, no, no. Atheists attack the religious for their faith.

Feeling threatened?

How many atheists were out picketing in front of your church last Sunday?

Go pray again for wisdom...it didn't work last time.

GOT JESUS?



How many Christians were picketing outside your house any day of the week?

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Easy now, that's much too complicated.

Can you eat a pork chop wearing your polyester blend or not there chief? Perhaps more importantly, why?

I do. Why? It tastes good.

jay_a2j wrote:

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Easy now, that's much too complicated.

Can you eat a pork chop wearing your polyester blend or not there chief? Perhaps more importantly, why?

I do. Why? It tastes good. :P

I think he's referring to these:

Leviticus 19:19
Observe my regulations. Don’t let your livestock mate with those of another kind, don’t sow your field with two different kinds of grain, and don’t wear a garment of cloth made with two different kinds of thread.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
Deuteronomy 14:8

jay_a2j wrote:

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Easy now, that's much too complicated.

Can you eat a pork chop wearing your polyester blend or not there chief? Perhaps more importantly, why?

I do. Why? It tastes good.

Fair enough.

Now you need to explain why you think the toray is completely valid, yet you can pick and choose which laws you can break and why?

jay_a2j wrote:GOT JESUS?

GOT SUPERSTITIONS?

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Easy now, that's much too complicated.

Can you eat a pork chop wearing your polyester blend or not there chief? Perhaps more importantly, why?

I do. Why? It tastes good.

Fair enough.

Now you need to explain why you think the toray is completely valid, yet you can pick and choose which laws you can break and why?

Jesus fulfilled the law. OT "eye for an eye" NT "turn the other cheek". yummm bacon. (It may be that I am not suppose to eat pork. When I am convicted of it, I'll stop)

Speaking of religon... Is it cheating to pray while you play?

Iainarm wrote:Speaking of religon... Is it cheating to pray while you play?

Depends on how you mean. Example: The Brazilian football team.

lol

Jolly Roger wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The Jewish Torah is valid, it is simply complete with the New testament.

Easy now, that's much too complicated.

Can you eat a pork chop wearing your polyester blend or not there chief? Perhaps more importantly, why?

I do. Why? It tastes good.

I think he's referring to these:

Leviticus 19:19
Observe my regulations. Don’t let your livestock mate with those of another kind, don’t sow your field with two different kinds of grain, and don’t wear a garment of cloth made with two different kinds of thread.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
Deuteronomy 14:8

Yes, those are the ones.

Jay has no need to understand what he speaks about.

You would make a great Catholic Jay.
Pope says, "do eeet!"
Response "mmmok you're the one that read the book."

Ignorace is bliss so be happy. I'll paraphrase a guy you are not farmiliar with, "You've been a christian for a while yet are you still confused by the basics?"

I'm not telling you you're wrong for eating the St.Louis short ribs, just saying you don't understand why.

2dimes wrote:
Ignorace is bliss so be happy. I'll paraphrase a guy you are not farmiliar with, "You've been a christian for a while yet are you still confused by the basics?"

I'm not telling you you're wrong for eating the St.Louis short ribs, just saying you don't understand why.

THAT is not the "basics" of Christianity. You are correct however, I don't understand everything in the Bible but who does? Just because someone doesn't understand something doesn't render it invalid.


Of all people, I didn't think you 2dimes, would be the one trying to poke holes in the faith of others. Guess we live and learn.

jay_a2j wrote:Of all people, I didn't think you 2dimes, would be the one trying to poke holes in the faith of others. Guess we live and learn.

All faiths are full of gaping holes already...he just pointed them out.

jay_a2j wrote:

2dimes wrote:I'm not telling you you're wrong for eating the St.Louis short ribs, just saying you don't understand why.

THAT is not the "basics" of Christianity. You are correct however, I don't understand everything in the Bible but who does? Just because someone doesn't understand something doesn't render it invalid.


Of all people, I didn't think you 2dimes, would be the one trying to poke holes in the faith of others. Guess we live and learn.

Sure Jay switch it up. I am persicuting you.

If I was trying to poke holes in your faith I would tell you to give up pork. Not to try and understand what you are debating.

You don't know what you are talking about and it's showing. If you don't want to learn that's cool but you might as well go away and stop trying to debate with Heavy Cola. You are painfully unqualified.

He wants to know why you have to keep some of the ten comandments and not the others. Niether of you know.

As for the question "who understands everything in the bible?" Those who don't believe it is a living text, filled with stories and histories of a bunch of guys that tried to fit God in with everyday life back in a time when they didn't have bicycles, yet they think and feel a lot like me.

Rather than some static literal fact book.

The pope is credited with that isn't he?

In conclusion I believe the basics of Christianity should be what Jesus said were the most important things. "Love God with everything and love your nieghbor as you love yourself." Move next door, maybe I'll be nicer.

The old covanant is rendered obsolete when it is completed by those two directions that he further explained the entire law is covered by if you actually can pull off those two seemingly simple ones.

I challenge anyone to take a shot at just treating other people as if they are the most important person you've ever met. Try it for a while and watch how your own life improves. You don't have to believe anything it works on it's own that's what makes it truth.

Backglass wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Of all people, I didn't think you 2dimes, would be the one trying to poke holes in the faith of others. Guess we live and learn.

All faiths are full of gaping holes already...he just pointed them out.

I think this has been brushed on but faith is the thing you need to cover the gaping holes in logic.

Logically, I love my wife sometimes but if she's looking for me I went to party it up in Vegas with some hookers. "They love me long time, until the money runs out."

Faith helps me use that money to pay the bills here and wait until the wife might love me again, believing that's the better choice for the long run.

EDIT: I just re-read that. I may have made the perfect analogy. That faith bit sounds like some fierce crazy talk to me compared to the logic bit.

2dimes wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

2dimes wrote:I'm not telling you you're wrong for eating the St.Louis short ribs, just saying you don't understand why.

THAT is not the "basics" of Christianity. You are correct however, I don't understand everything in the Bible but who does? Just because someone doesn't understand something doesn't render it invalid.


Of all people, I didn't think you 2dimes, would be the one trying to poke holes in the faith of others. Guess we live and learn.

Sure Jay switch it up. I am persicuting you.

If I was trying to poke holes in your faith I would tell you to give up pork. Not to try and understand what you are debating.

You don't know what you are talking about and it's showing. If you don't want to learn that's cool but you might as well go away and stop trying to debate with Heavy Cola. You are painfully unqualified.

He wants to know why you have to keep some of the ten comandments and not the others. Niether of you know.

As for the question "who understands everything in the bible?" Those who don't believe it is a living text, filled with stories and histories of a bunch of guys that tried to fit God in with everyday life back in a time when they didn't have bicycles, yet they think and feel a lot like me.

Rather than some static literal fact book.

The pope is credited with that isn't he?

In conclusion I believe the basics of Christianity should be what Jesus said were the most important things. "Love God with everything and love your nieghbor as you love yourself." Move next door, maybe I'll be nicer.

The old covanant is rendered obsolete when it is completed by those two directions that he further explained the entire law is covered by if you actually can pull off those two seemingly simple ones.

I challenge anyone to take a shot at just treating other people as if they are the most important person you've ever met. Try it for a while and watch how your own life improves. You don't have to believe anything it works on it's own that's what makes it truth.

Addressing bold text: No one can "keep" the 10 commandments and thats NOT even what we were talking about. We were talking about pork and "clothes with many threads" not the 10 Commandments.


The basics of Christianity could be as follows: (Check them off if they apply to you)

Jesus was perfect, without sin and died for sinners so that we could know God.

Jesus is God. Equal to the Father.

We are to live as Jesus lived... "love thy neighbor" is included here. (We can not achieve this yet but we can strive toward it)



I'd be careful when stating a person is "unqualified" to debate their faith. If you can check all those "basics" above, then you might be able to judge me as "unqualified".

e mail me if u dont get christanity.

If you belong to any religion then I have 3 things to say.

1. Your beliefs are stupid.

2. All religions are the same.

3. Your god doesn't exist, if he did he would stop me from writing this.

Georgerx7di wrote:If you belong to any religion then I have 3 things to say.

1. Your beliefs are stupid.

2. All religions are the same.

3. Your god doesn't exist, if he did he would stop me from writing this.

Just a little bit ignorant.

Agreed. Just a little bit ignorant.

Just realized something while watching a Discovery Channel special on Atlantis - people act the same way towards this as they do to religion. Atlantis was written by Plato for reasons we do not know why, people we do not know wrote the OT for reasons we do not know why. Yet there are groups of people who truly believe one or the other or both word for word and frantically try to find it / act on it as though it is scientific fact.

The reason being for this is that even though Plato wrote about Atlantis first, people search in places like the Caribbean, even Japan, thinking that somehow this information about this civilization may have gotten to Plato, even if it did it would go through numerous translations and exaggerations. Some with the OT: It must have been written thousands of years ago, before the texts of Plato, and been translated countless amounts of times, and even though there is immeasurable amounts of evidence in the favor of evolution, there are still people who look for Eden and the 'creation' (e.g. sudden appearance) of man.

I might not have connected these two well enough, but the idea in my head is as vivid as the knowledge that I need to work on my analogies better.