Conquer Club

Victor Sullivan wrote:Well, I think we're only left with 2 options at this point. MeDeFe, as strike wolf said, has put someone at L-1 for two days in a row now, and Mr. Squirrel seems peculiarly hostile toward jonty, especially after he claimed Ra. I feel like a mafia wouldn't be quite so strongly opinionated, so I kinda wanna say third party, but that gets awfully WIFOM-y. I think at this point I'd like to hear more from Mr. Squirrel, so I'll vote Mr. Squirrel.

-Sully

Mr. Squirrel wrote:

jonty125 wrote:I am Ra and I claim the kill on icedagger

Well its a good thing we let you use your power. That turned out soooo well for us

VioIet wrote:

Mr. Squirrel wrote:

jonty125 wrote:I am Ra and I claim the kill on icedagger

Well its a good thing we let you use your power. That turned out soooo well for us

I can understand Squirrel's pov on this one. If we leave jonty alive, he may "accidentally" kill another townie.

Vote Jonty

Victor Sullivan wrote:

VioIet wrote:

Mr. Squirrel wrote:

jonty125 wrote:I am Ra and I claim the kill on icedagger

Well its a good thing we let you use your power. That turned out soooo well for us

I can understand Squirrel's pov on this one. If we leave jonty alive, he may "accidentally" kill another townie.

Vote Jonty

Though he claimed the power was one-shot.

-Sully

VioIet wrote:

Mr. Squirrel wrote:

jonty125 wrote:I am Ra and I claim the kill on icedagger

Well its a good thing we let you use your power. That turned out soooo well for us

I can understand Squirrel's pov on this one. If we leave jonty alive, he may "accidentally" kill another townie.

Vote Jonty

MeDeFe wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:

VioIet wrote:

Mr. Squirrel wrote:

jonty125 wrote:I am Ra and I claim the kill on icedagger

Well its a good thing we let you use your power. That turned out soooo well for us

I can understand Squirrel's pov on this one. If we leave jonty alive, he may "accidentally" kill another townie.

Vote Jonty

Though he claimed the power was one-shot.

-Sully

Considering the direction I feel things are going in I'll say that I find his claim of a one-shot nightkill to be not unreasonable. I'm inclined to believe that he really is Ra. With that my own focus goes back to Victor and Strike Wolf.

For now I'd say Victor. He was in on both lynches, both times at a "raising the pressure" point. Looking at the other voters against Naxus:

Vio claimed cop, no other cop has come forward yet, and it's getting high time. Probably town.
Jonty's claim of being Ra is reasonable. Probably town.
Rodion was third party and nightkilled.
I know that I am town.
I've been sensing more town than scum vibes from Safari, but can't say anything for sure.

We can't be dealing with more than 3 scum faction members or they would've won by now, even so, it means we have to lynch a scum today (or not lynch at all) or we'll lose by tomorrow. No lynch is pretty much a no-go, uniting 4 townies against 3 scum will be hard.
With the cop outed on day 1 and permablocked afterwards it's not unreasonable for the scum to play it safe and lie extremely low. Victor's raising-the-pressure manner of voting fits with that. From my point of view he's the most obvious candidate.

vote Victor Sullivan

VioIet wrote:

Mr. Squirrel wrote:

jonty125 wrote:I am Ra and I claim the kill on icedagger

Well its a good thing we let you use your power. That turned out soooo well for us

I can understand Squirrel's pov on this one. If we leave jonty alive, he may "accidentally" kill another townie.

Vote Jonty

MeDeFe wrote:I went through the last couple of pages and looked at the wagon against Vio went in a bit more detail. SW's case against her was really quite flimsy, essentially she was still joking around when he thought we should be getting serious. PCM joined half a day later, arguing that we were more likely to get something out of her than out of Naxus who was completely inactive. VS jumped on half a day later again with no real stated reason for his vote. Jonty had announced that he would switch in advance and did so half a day later again, then Safari joined relatively quickly, stating that one was as good as the other, and I put Vio L-1 ~13 hours before the day ended (the deadline had been officially set to ~6 hours from then) in an attempt to force a claim.


I can't say whether the fact that SW made his case at all indicates that he's scum or town, I see good reasons both ways, but the fact that it was based on evidence that imo doesn't really deserve that moniker remains. The joke phase always phases gradually into more serious gameplay. I think it's pretty much inevitable. Calling someone out because they still joke around for a while is too weak reasoning for my taste. I believe the correct term here is IGMEOY

strike wolf wrote:So you're suspicious of me because you felt in hindsight the case was weak and that it shouldn't have deserved so much attention? All I can really say is welcome to Day 1. The case was not very strong and no I don't think it would have garnered nearly as much attention any other day but I did recognize that and i didn't vote vio nor jonty for that alone. I pressed them for more information and when vio went inactive, I opted for the person who had shown a scum tell (weak yes but not completely ignorable) to vote for over the person who was simply inactive. It turned out to be the cop and that was an unfortunate event but I do not regret taking the game that course. You've also hinted at another reason. It was stated she was more likely to reply. This is completely true. I would rather go after the person who is more likely to respond than not. Let's say we were to have pressured Naxus (who in this case turns out to be the cop) and we ended up lynching him day 1 because deadline was approaching and he never came around to claim. We just lynched an inactive cop who may have been replaced otherwise.

safariguy5 wrote:He jumps on jonty for that bad move, then basically begins a wagon for voting him.

safariguy5 wrote:I read this wagon as a someone trying to get an easy lynch on a pretty much flavor confirmed townie. It looks like a scum trying to push a lynch so we can get to night.

Mr. Squirrel wrote:I don't think he should be lynched. His claim is pretty much confirmed. I just think it was a terrible turn for town that could have been easily avoided.

VioIet wrote:Mr.Squirrel, I think you should unvote Victor

strike wolf wrote:So you're suspicious of me because you felt in hindsight the case was weak and that it shouldn't have deserved so much attention? All I can really say is welcome to Day 1. The case was not very strong and no I don't think it would have garnered nearly as much attention any other day but I did recognize that and i didn't vote vio nor jonty for that alone. I pressed them for more information and when vio went inactive, I opted for the person who had shown a scum tell (weak yes but not completely ignorable) to vote for over the person who was simply inactive. It turned out to be the cop and that was an unfortunate event but I do not regret taking the game that course. You've also hinted at another reason. It was stated she was more likely to reply. This is completely true. I would rather go after the person who is more likely to respond than not.

Let's say we were to have pressured Naxus (who in this case turns out to be the cop) and we ended up lynching him day 1 because deadline was approaching and he never came around to claim. We just lynched an inactive cop who may have been replaced otherwise.

MeDeFe wrote:

strike wolf wrote:So you're suspicious of me because you felt in hindsight the case was weak and that it shouldn't have deserved so much attention? All I can really say is welcome to Day 1. The case was not very strong and no I don't think it would have garnered nearly as much attention any other day but I did recognize that and i didn't vote vio nor jonty for that alone. I pressed them for more information and when vio went inactive, I opted for the person who had shown a scum tell (weak yes but not completely ignorable) to vote for over the person who was simply inactive. It turned out to be the cop and that was an unfortunate event but I do not regret taking the game that course. You've also hinted at another reason. It was stated she was more likely to reply. This is completely true. I would rather go after the person who is more likely to respond than not.

Yes, on day 1 I felt that your case against Vio was flimsy even for day 1, that's what caught my attention in the first place. Yes, you did help move things along which is not in the interest of the scum, but an easy case on day 1 over a minor quibble is something the scum would be stupid not to go for. At the time the wagons were started there was no way of telling who would be more or less likely to respond or go inactive, I'm not accepting that part of your reasoning, you voted for her way too early for that.

I will admit that I have very little solid evidence to go on, but you're playing pretty much exactly the way I would play if I were scum. Call it a gut feeling if you will, but I just can't shake it.

Let's say we were to have pressured Naxus (who in this case turns out to be the cop) and we ended up lynching him day 1 because deadline was approaching and he never came around to claim. We just lynched an inactive cop who may have been replaced otherwise.

And this is just bullshit. "What if we had lynched Naxus and he had been a cop?" Are you serious? You try to defend yourself by saying that there are hypothetical situations that would've been worse than the current one? Are you trying to give me hard evidence for your scumminess?

strike wolf wrote:Again I'll say welcome to day 1. Don't expect people to be posting 5 paragraph long cases on people on day 1 and you won't be disappointed.

Also I will again say read what I said. I didn't just vote for vio for the little quibble if I was doing it just for that jonty was the better target. He had done the same thing and went on to seemingly ignore the issue as well. I voted her because she was inactive and unlike Naxus had demonstrated a behavior that while weak overall was not helpful to town.

That was my main reason for voting her. You joined the bandwagon and didn't show any sign you felt it was weak until day 2...

It's a perfectly legitimate hypothetical considering the scenario at hand as to why it's better to aim at someone who shows signs they are more likely to post than someone who isn't.

I see you felt the same way day 1 when voting Vio.

I am giving you an example of part of the thought process to why I chose to vote vio. I was okay with your reasoning for putting vio and naxus at L-1 at least to the point I didn't plan on voting you but this latest comment has brought you back up the list. You've repeatedly now tried to understate my reasoning for voting vio and now trying to discount part of the reason without legitimately rebutting the reasoning.

MeDeFe wrote:Considering the direction I feel things are going in I'll say that I find his claim of a one-shot nightkill to be not unreasonable. I'm inclined to believe that he really is Ra. With that my own focus goes back to Victor and Strike Wolf.

For now I'd say Victor. He was in on both lynches, both times at a "raising the pressure" point. Looking at the other voters against Naxus:

Vio claimed cop, no other cop has come forward yet, and it's getting high time. Probably town.
Jonty's claim of being Ra is reasonable. Probably town.
Rodion was third party and nightkilled.
I know that I am town.
I've been sensing more town than scum vibes from Safari, but can't say anything for sure.

We can't be dealing with more than 3 scum faction members or they would've won by now, even so, it means we have to lynch a scum today (or not lynch at all) or we'll lose by tomorrow. No lynch is pretty much a no-go, uniting 4 townies against 3 scum will be hard.
With the cop outed on day 1 and permablocked afterwards it's not unreasonable for the scum to play it safe and lie extremely low. Victor's raising-the-pressure manner of voting fits with that. From my point of view he's the most obvious candidate.

vote Victor Sullivan

MeDeFe wrote:I went through the last couple of pages and looked at the wagon against Vio went in a bit more detail. SW's case against her was really quite flimsy, essentially she was still joking around when he thought we should be getting serious. PCM joined half a day later, arguing that we were more likely to get something out of her than out of Naxus who was completely inactive. VS jumped on half a day later again with no real stated reason for his vote. Jonty had announced that he would switch in advance and did so half a day later again, then Safari joined relatively quickly, stating that one was as good as the other, and I put Vio L-1 ~13 hours before the day ended (the deadline had been officially set to ~6 hours from then) in an attempt to force a claim.


I can't say whether the fact that SW made his case at all indicates that he's scum or town, I see good reasons both ways, but the fact that it was based on evidence that imo doesn't really deserve that moniker remains. The joke phase always phases gradually into more serious gameplay. I think it's pretty much inevitable. Calling someone out because they still joke around for a while is too weak reasoning for my taste. I believe the correct term here is IGMEOY

VS's vote struck me as the scummiest. He switched from one wagon (Naxus) with three votes, to a wagon (Vio) that had only 2 votes so far. SW had announced that he was prepared to switch to Naxus if votes were needed. VS essentially removed that option from the table. Jonty had announced that he was going to wait for a reply from Vio, but also that he would've liked to see a lynch, so by switching wagons VS pretty much ensured that SW stayed on the one he had started and knew that Jonty would eventually join and possibly even hammer, depending on the timing.

With the Naxus wagon finished, it only makes sense for safari to switch. I made a last-ditch effort to get a claim out of a very nearly completely inactive player and it worked, unfortunately not to our advantage.


Based on this reasoning, I'll vote Victor Sullivan.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Here's my vote post:

Victor Sullivan wrote:Vote VioIet

Let's get the ball rollin', folks.

-Sully

The idea was just that - to get the ball rolling. The deadline was approaching and though the cases on both naxus and Vio were weak, at least Vio's was a bit more than "just being inactive" so I went with it, especially seeing as how people seemed to be leaning more toward her than naxus. And supposing we did pressure naxus, it seems we wouldn't have gotten any information D1.

-Sully

Victor Sullivan wrote:MeDeFe seemed to be okay with putting VioIet dangerously close to being lynched (L-1). He should know that mafia could have easily placed a lynching vote (which one could speculate that perhaps all of the mafia were already on the bandwagon, but this becomes borderline WIFOM).

MeDeFe wrote:Violet appears to be at 5 votes, lynch is at 7, so.

unvote
vote Violet

It was either Naxus, who (I think) didn't post even when the wagon against him got going, or Vio, and all things considered I'd prefer to pressure the person who occasionally posts. How about a claim?

While we eagerly await Vio's results, I am going to vote MeDeFe for reasons stated above.

-Sully

Victor Sullivan wrote: I'm pretty sure I explained my voting patterns when you first attempted this case against me.

It was relatively weak, I'll admit, but it was a half-decent place to start D2, given we didn't lynch anyone D1. It was, again, more to get the ball rolling. It almost seems to me your first case was a disguised case of OMGUS, especially given your logic was similar to mine (and the case was just as weak).

MeDeFe wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote: I'm pretty sure I explained my voting patterns when you first attempted this case against me.

Yes, you did. I think you're lying about your motives.

It was relatively weak, I'll admit, but it was a half-decent place to start D2, given we didn't lynch anyone D1. It was, again, more to get the ball rolling. It almost seems to me your first case was a disguised case of OMGUS, especially given your logic was similar to mine (and the case was just as weak).

This again? I thought I already showed how you took the ball from one wagon and moved it to the other. Admittedly, both turned out to be town, but I don't think that helps you much.

As for "getting the ball rolling", "raising the pressure", call it what you want... what I'm talking about is that you were in at the tipping point, providing the momentum necessary to decide which wagon was the only one remaining.