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Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:53 pm
by KraphtOne
AAFitz wrote:If the invites were sent out, to become instantly available to new recruits, and the reason for the original invites was to attract said new recruits...which is very possible, then it is targeting new recruits. I think to prove this, a great number of examples would have to be given, showing he knew by doing this, that those new recruits would join. If he continued after one batch, and set up another, than he did in fact know what would happen, and therefore targeted them.
If you do something once, or many times and new recruits join en masse...then doing it again is targeting them, and expressly against the anti-farming rule and gross abuse of game rule.
If there is only one batch, that happened all at once, it is theoretically possible that he was surprised by it. Theoretically possible anyways. Clearly there was an objective of the invites, and it seems likely the objective was not to have those invited actually join the game.
i agree
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:56 pm
by AAFitz
KraphtOne wrote:AAFitz wrote:If the invites were sent out, to become instantly available to new recruits, and the reason for the original invites was to attract said new recruits...which is very possible, then it is targeting new recruits. I think to prove this, a great number of examples would have to be given, showing he knew by doing this, that those new recruits would join. If he continued after one batch, and set up another, than he did in fact know what would happen, and therefore targeted them.
If you do something once, or many times and new recruits join en masse...then doing it again is targeting them, and expressly against the anti-farming rule and gross abuse of game rule.
If there is only one batch, that happened all at once, it is theoretically possible that he was surprised by it. Theoretically possible anyways. Clearly there was an objective of the invites, and it seems likely the objective was not to have those invited actually join the game.
i agree
i surprised... I edited it a little...but mostly I said the same thing and added maybe a little detail or two. I sometimes do that.
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:25 am
by obliterationX
Ya'll can see it however you want. It was bound to happen and be exploited by someone with farming intentions eventually, so what better than for it to be discovered by somebody without such intentions!?
the.killing.44 wrote:So you're inviting inactive players so they expire and NR's join your games.
What a genius.
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:30 am
by jefjef
lord voldemort wrote:Who did you invite out of interest?? If you didnt invite new recruits then they can prove your story with some screen shots of the invites you sent
This is pending...We shall look and see
You have officially been requested to offer up who was invited.
Why the silence?
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:07 am
by alster
lord voldemort wrote:Who did you invite out of interest?? If you didnt invite new recruits then they can prove your story with some screen shots of the invites you sent
This is pending...We shall look and see
Oh... it appears to me that C&A mods needs access to more information than you presently have, i.e. you guys definitly should be able to review sent/accepted/declined invite history etc. for each game (and that information should be loged).
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:13 am
by alster
AAFitz wrote:If the invites were sent out, to become instantly available to new recruits, and the reason for the original invites was to attract said new recruits...which is very possible, then it is targeting new recruits. I think to prove this, a great number of examples would have to be given, showing he knew by doing this, that those new recruits would join. If he continued after one batch, and set up another, than he did in fact know what would happen, and therefore targeted them.
If you do something once, or many times and new recruits join en masse...then doing it again is targeting them, and expressly against the anti-farming rule and gross abuse of game rule.
If there is only one batch, that happened all at once, it is theoretically possible that he was surprised by it. Theoretically possible anyways. Clearly there was an objective of the invites, and it seems likely the objective was not to have those invited actually join the game.
It is the repeated activities that end up with new recruits in the game that are against the rules. That is targeting them. There have been many techniques, and certainly anyone caught doing this particular version will be guilty of breaking the farming rule from here on out. The question here, really is, was it an unexpected result, or the main objective. The timing of the games will show that Ill bet.
I concur.
I am also a bit curious who the invite(s) were. In order to put a scheme like this into play it would make sense to have a partner in crime that you send out an invite to (preferably around 6 pm or later EST to maximize the number of new recruits the following day) and this partner just let the invite expire.
[That is, if it indeed is a scheme, just having reviewed the posts in this thread, I'm not convinced that this has occured in any other way than what obliterationX described.]
I am also surprised that so many new recruits join these 1v1 games. This is a popular setting among many players on this site, that ?s manages to snatch up so many of these games is quite a feat. [However, probably not too statistically improbable]
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:41 am
by Fuinc1
why wouldnt you ( the mods) pm contact the other active parties and ask them how they know or joined the games.seems like a few people were the same
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:53 am
by AAFitz
obliterationX wrote:Ya'll can see it however you want. It was bound to happen and be exploited by someone with farming intentions eventually, so what better than for it to be discovered by somebody without such intentions!?
As asked by nearly everyone now, "What were your intentions"
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:52 am
by JOHNNYROCKET24
alstergren wrote:lord voldemort wrote:Who did you invite out of interest?? If you didnt invite new recruits then they can prove your story with some screen shots of the invites you sent
This is pending...We shall look and see
Oh... it appears to me that C&A mods needs access to more information than you presently have, i.e. you guys definitly should be able to review sent/accepted/declined invite history etc. for each game (and that information should be loged).
nobody has access to that
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:56 am
by lord voldemort
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:alstergren wrote:lord voldemort wrote:Who did you invite out of interest?? If you didnt invite new recruits then they can prove your story with some screen shots of the invites you sent
This is pending...We shall look and see
Oh... it appears to me that C&A mods needs access to more information than you presently have, i.e. you guys definitly should be able to review sent/accepted/declined invite history etc. for each game (and that information should be loged).
nobody has access to that
qft....
Did you miss my request obx???
i might send you a pm
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:06 am
by the.killing.44
obliterationX wrote:the.killing.44 wrote:So you're inviting inactive players so they expire and NR's join your games.
What a genius.
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:08 am
by obliterationX
alstergren wrote:I am also surprised that so many new recruits join these 1v1 games. This is a popular setting among many players on this site, that ?s manages to snatch up so many of these games is quite a feat. [However, probably not too statistically improbable]
Well, when the games expired, they would have been at the top of the "Join A Game" list for New Recruits (they have strict map and settings filters as far as I've researched), and nowhere near the top of the list for ranked players. That's why so many NR's joined.
And I agree, it's such a shame that mods don't have access to files about invitations. That would get this case closed immediately. Why don't you mods have access to this!? Can somebody with access take a look, to get this over and done with quicker?
Re: obliterationX - farming
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:13 am
by JOHNNYROCKET24
obliterationX wrote:alstergren wrote:I am also surprised that so many new recruits join these 1v1 games. This is a popular setting among many players on this site, that ?s manages to snatch up so many of these games is quite a feat. [However, probably not too statistically improbable]
Well, when the games expired, they would have been at the top of the "Join A Game" list for New Recruits (they have strict map and settings filters as far as I've researched), and nowhere near the top of the list for ranked players. That's why so many NR's joined.
And I agree, it's such a shame that mods don't have access to files about invitations. That would get this case closed immediately. Why don't you mods have access to this!? Can somebody with access take a look, to get this over and done with quicker?
nobody has access to game invitations or PM's
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:46 pm
by Snowgun
I"m a little confused as to X's nonchalance about all of this...
So, if you happen to do something, and it results in playing a lot of ?'s, and nobody has done it before, OR, you do this thing and is results in the same thing but it doesn't LOOK like you are trying to do it, than it's OK?
I'm starting to feel like i'm missing the boat on this quasi farming thing...
Back in my old starcraft days, if you got noobed you got noobed, and you learned real fast. However, I appreciate the $$$ aspect of this from Lack's point of view.
Why don't we just educate the noobs about this when they sign up? like we do with the multi thing? Then we can drop these farming rules and stop these acusations and witch hunts.
Obviously X's is trying to up his points instead of playing the game for fun, this can be seen in the number and type of games he is setting up. Ever made a bunch of games on your favorite map with your favorite settings? Guess what! you are fucking farming,! Any attempt at upping points is essentually farming, but it's ok if you do it with non recuit players
...This thread is going to dissolve into a pissing contest of wether his method of point upping is "farming" or not, based on the current sketched out precident of what "farming" laws are.
In the end, everybody who is of higher rank (or who wants higher rank) "farms", even though the technical details are different. This issue will pop up over and over no matter how you try to slice it. I say educate the noobs and then let them jump in the pool.
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:52 pm
by jefjef
Well I like to set up agames on my favorite map. So do all of us. That isn't farming. It's the noob traps that is farming.
The only real answer is to block ? from playing officers.
And why is this still pending? X admitted back on page 1 he is farming noobs.
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:58 pm
by alex951
The screen shot does look a little fishy to me. Usually I agrue for the person that is being accused of farming because I don't generally agree with cc on their view, but those shots and all those ? Sure sway my possition. I guess its just whether or not he was inviting ? And hoping that nobody would notice.
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:03 pm
by obliterationX
alex951 wrote:The screen shot does look a little fishy to me. Usually I agrue for the person that is being accused of farming because I don't generally agree with cc on their view, but those shots and all those ? Sure sway my possition. I guess its just whether or not he was inviting ? And hoping that nobody would notice.
Just read the bloody topic, for Christ's sake. We've already established that I didn't invite any of the people who joined any of the games.
jefjef wrote:And why is this still pending? X admitted back on page 1 he is farming noobs.
Same goes for you. Don't twist my words.
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:15 pm
by jefjef
Who did you invite to those games? Hiding something?
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:22 pm
by alex951
X, I. Have read the the entire topic and it only strenghtened my opinion. Almost looks like you intentionally took advantage of the requests and thought you would not get in trouble because it has not been ruled on before.
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:46 pm
by alster
obliterationX wrote:Just read the bloody topic, for Christ's sake. We've already established that I didn't invite any of the people who joined any of the games.
My two cents...
I haven't seen anyone dispute that (re quote). Even though I'd hardly say it has been established, you're not very forthcoming, you mainly post a bunch of statements with little or no substance to back them up with.
Generally, IMO it's a bit far fetched to see this as farming though unless there are more games with ?s joining and/or that a more systematic approach to get ?s to join is shown. I haven't seen that being claimed/posted here.
And for the record, it seems to me that whoever obliterationX invited for those games to begin with is his business as invites apparently aren't loged and subsequently accessible for the mods (too bad).
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:48 pm
by alex951
alstergren wrote:obliterationX wrote:Just read the bloody topic, for Christ's sake. We've already established that I didn't invite any of the people who joined any of the games.
My two cents...
I haven't seen anyone dispute that (re quote). Even though I'd hardly say it has been established, you're not very forthcoming, you mainly post a bunch of statements with little or no substance to back them up with.
Generally, IMO it's a bit far fetched to see this as farming though unless there are more games with ?s joining and/or that a more systematic approach to get ?s to join is shown. I haven't seen that being claimed/posted here.
And for the record, it seems to me that whoever obliterationX invited for those games to begin with is his business as invites apparently aren't loged and subsequently accessible for the mods (too bad).
how do we know that the invite weren't in on this?
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:40 pm
by Snowgun
jefjef wrote:Well I like to set up agames on my favorite map. So do all of us. That isn't farming. It's the noob traps that is farming.
I'm trying to make an point here that the spirit of farming is to obtain points by stacking the odds in your favor. Playing your favorite map/settings against
anyone who isn't also as comfortable as you on them is technically
"farming
" , especially when you make lots of those games, don't invite high rankers, ect.
The word
farming here is being used to mean specifically playing ?'s to gain points in multiple games. According to CC doctrine:
if you invite a thousand cooks to advanced settings games, it's not faming.
If a ton of ?'s HAPPEN to join your multiplayer games, It IS farming.
if a ton of ?'s HAPPEN to join your 1v1 games, it's not farming. HOWEVER, if you somehow use some sort of jedi mind trick to get a bunch of ?'s to join 1v1 games WITHOUT inviting them, it is NOT farming unless it LOOKS like you are using Jedi powers, then it is farming....
ahhhh, right?
Anyway, I think this farming thing is absurd, and this case here demonstrates how hard it is to pin down. I don't think X is guilty of anything more than anyone making a bunch of favorite games to farm points, just not in the way CC bans farming.... Unless he specifically invited noobs.
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:14 pm
by chemefreak
Snowgun wrote:
The word
farming here is being used to mean specifically playing ?'s to gain points in multiple games. According to CC doctrine:
if you invite a thousand cooks to advanced settings games, it's not faming.
If a ton of ?'s HAPPEN to join your multiplayer games, It IS farming.
if a ton of ?'s HAPPEN to join your 1v1 games, it's not farming. HOWEVER, if you somehow use some sort of jedi mind trick to get a bunch of ?'s to join 1v1 games WITHOUT inviting them, it is NOT farming unless it LOOKS like you are using Jedi powers, then it is farming....
ahhhh, right?
Nice job Snowy...clear as mud!
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:16 pm
by the.killing.44
- He's inviting inactive players so the games bump to the top and NR's join
- He knows very well that these games will mostly fill up with NR's
- Ergo, he's targeting NR's
Re: obliterationX - farming [pending]
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:35 pm
by Snowgun
the.killing.44 wrote:- He's inviting inactive players so the games bump to the top and NR's join
- He knows very well that these games will mostly fill up with NR's
- Ergo, he's targeting NR's
Does anyone else see the absurdity of this WHOLE thing? THe lengths at which one would have to go to honeypot a bunch of noobs to join a bunch of 1v1 games, all the while keeping the appearance that it was THEIR IDEA in the first place? Wiggling the games under their noses so they couldn't help but to join!
If he IS doing this whole scam on purpose then my hat is off to you sir!
Holy shit! to what degree are we supposed to protect the fucking Noobs now! Should we each adopt one in a big brother program? Maybe place WARNING lables on everything and fasten all the cupboard drawers? How about hold their mouse hands and murmer soft admonishments as they try to mash the autoattack?
Next majors will be branded as rank pedophiles if they play with cooks without supervision past 8 pm!
This whole situation is easy! make the NOOB responsible. Have them click a box saying "they understand that their are people better than them on this site and it may take them a little while to learn the ropes, so pay attention to what games you join".