Conquer Club

cowshrptrn wrote:Here we are, trumpeting Iraq as this step forward for democracy, and we kill him in such an arcane way as hanging. Its a step backwards. While i don't approve of the death penalty, i think that if you do you should at least make it humane.

Firstly, "we" didn't kill him. He was tried in an Iraqi court before an Iraqi tribunal and the death sentence was meted out by Iraqis. Secondly, if done properly where the neck is broken and the spinal cord severed, hanging is as humane of a death as anything else. If it's botched, they strangle and die of asphyxiation and that's not so nice. From the looks of the photos, it appears to have been done correctly.

yet we turn around and torture people ourselves.

For God's sake, PLEASE stop it with that. Now. When we begin to behead our prisoners with KNIVES, mind you, and then put the video of the beheading on the internet so that the family of the victim can witness it, then I'll say you have a legitimate argument. Accuse us of torturing in light of the barbarism that they've proven themselves capable? Hardly.

Since he died in such a way at our hands, i think we need to step back and look at ourselves, before trying to condemn others.

Again, no, it was at the Iraqis' hands. If it were in our hands, it would be hung up in court for the next 20 years while the defense attorneys filed appeal after appeal.

I say that in the end Saddam got what he deserved.

he was sentenced by an american made goverment,theres nothing democratic about this,i dont care he is dead,but stop suger coating it

sorry british 2

in the next 48 hours a lot of people r going 2 die now,because bush needed his statment,last time i looked at the news it was over 50 so far,and the body counts going 2 go up

gordon1975 wrote:he was sentenced by an american made goverment,theres nothing democratic about this,

The tens (or was it hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis that literally risked their lives to cast a vote might take issue with that statement.

I am shocked at the number of people that approve of Saddam being hanged! I would have given him life imprisonment but I am totally against killing a man. No man has the right to take another man's life, no matter how evil he might be.

DogDoc wrote:

yet we turn around and torture people ourselves.

For God's sake, PLEASE stop it with that. Now. When we begin to behead our prisoners with KNIVES, mind you, and then put the video of the beheading on the internet so that the family of the victim can witness it, then I'll say you have a legitimate argument. Accuse us of torturing in light of the barbarism that they've proven themselves capable? Hardly.

Thats complete bullshit, just because we don't do it to as severe an extent its alright? We can't condemn torture while we do it ourselves, and to innocent civilians on numerous occasions. You can't pick and choose which tortures are humane and alright, i'm not saying either side was justified in torture, all i'm saying is neither side is in a position to condemn torture since both have practiced torture.

I would like to see any instances where Saddam Hussein (not the religious Taliban that secular Saddam Hussein didn't have ties to) has taken video footage of a torture and posted it online?

DogDoc wrote:

Since he died in such a way at our hands, i think we need to step back and look at ourselves, before trying to condemn others.

Again, no, it was at the Iraqis' hands. If it were in our hands, it would be hung up in court for the next 20 years while the defense attorneys filed appeal after appeal.

I say that in the end Saddam got what he deserved.

How silly of me, just because WE wrote their constitution with very little input from native Iraqis who are in a position to comment on the what's best for their nation and they voted on it, so they could live with a government as opposed to living under a foreign occupation. It seemed as if the constitution was a step towards rebuilding their government, which would allow for the withdrawal of troops, which is what everyone there wanted.

I don't care what people say, im happy that this terrorist is dead, though i wished he was killed with little more torture teaching him what he has done to others..but oh well i guess..

People who are against this, think about it for a second, if we totured or commited the same crime against them that they commited, people wouldn't commit those crimes much more, like a sexual assault person, if we cut his balls off or penis..then im pretty sure rest of the same people would think twice about commiting that crime due to the penalty, when people find out they can commit any crime basically and just be sent to jail with clothing and food and a place to stay, it really isn't that bad of a living if you think about it, but if the punishments for certain crimes were more severe, people would stop commiting them being scared of the consiquences.

But hey thats just my oppinion.

bluereaper wrote:I don't care what people say, im happy that this terrorist is dead, though i wished he was killed with little more torture teaching him what he has done to others..but oh well i guess..

People who are against this, think about it for a second, if we totured or commited the same crime against them that they commited, people wouldn't commit those crimes much more, like a sexual assault person, if we cut his balls off or penis..then im pretty sure rest of the same people would think twice about commiting that crime due to the penalty, when people find out they can commit any crime basically and just be sent to jail with clothing and food and a place to stay, it really isn't that bad of a living if you think about it, but if the punishments for certain crimes were more severe, people would stop commiting them being scared of the consiquences.

But hey thats just my oppinion.

Then i'm sure you'd LOVE to live under military rule, where you get your hand chopped off for speeding! then NOBODY will speed!

Its appalling how little people understand of civil liberties, and how we would turn into a police state if we didn't have civil prison systems.

Thats complete bullshit, just because we don't do it to as severe an extent its alright? We can't condemn torture while we do it ourselves, and to innocent civilians on numerous occasions. You can't pick and choose which tortures are humane and alright, i'm not saying either side was justified in torture, all i'm saying is neither side is in a position to condemn torture since both have practiced torture.

No, it's just that I'm really, really tired of hearing how EVIL we Americans are and how BAD we are going around TORTURING people when the acts at Abu Graib (which amounted to humiliation of the prisoners for the most part) pale in comparison to what's been done to us. Do I condone torture? Of course, not. But make bad guys out of the bad guys. Not out of us.

How silly of me, just because WE wrote their constitution with very little input from native Iraqis who are in a position to comment on the what's best for their nation and they voted on it, so they could live with a government as opposed to living under a foreign occupation. It seemed as if the constitution was a step towards rebuilding their government, which would allow for the withdrawal of troops, which is what everyone there wanted.

Do you know that we wrote the Iraqi Constitution as a fact? Or are you just speculating? It was my understanding that the Iraqis themselves authored it with a lot of pressure from the Bush administration to do it quickly. Which is a shame, especially when you consider we fought for our independence in 1776 but didn't ratify a constitution until 11 years later yet we expected the Iraqis to do it in less than a year.

bluereaper wrote:like a sexual assault person, if we cut his balls off or penis..then im pretty sure rest of the same people would think twice about commiting that crime due to the penalty

Let's start with the alter boy sodomizing catholic priests.

Well, he got his last theatrical hurrah at his trial then went out with a snap. Come to think of it, a clean hanging was probably the second-worst way for him to go (the worst being lethal injection). He personally requested that he be dispatched by firing squad and that's just it...

He wanted to be martyred in a hail of blood, bullets and glory, but instead he was done in cleanly and clinically by the hand of the state, and that was probably the worst punishment of all that could have possibly been meted out to Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti.

DogDoc wrote:

Thats complete bullshit, just because we don't do it to as severe an extent its alright? We can't condemn torture while we do it ourselves, and to innocent civilians on numerous occasions. You can't pick and choose which tortures are humane and alright, i'm not saying either side was justified in torture, all i'm saying is neither side is in a position to condemn torture since both have practiced torture.

No, it's just that I'm really, really tired of hearing how EVIL we Americans are and how BAD we are going around TORTURING people when the acts at Abu Graib (which amounted to humiliation of the prisoners for the most part) pale in comparison to what's been done to us. Do I condone torture? Of course, not. But make bad guys out of the bad guys. Not out of us.

How silly of me, just because WE wrote their constitution with very little input from native Iraqis who are in a position to comment on the what's best for their nation and they voted on it, so they could live with a government as opposed to living under a foreign occupation. It seemed as if the constitution was a step towards rebuilding their government, which would allow for the withdrawal of troops, which is what everyone there wanted.

Do you know that we wrote the Iraqi Constitution as a fact? Or are you just speculating? It was my understanding that the Iraqis themselves authored it with a lot of pressure from the Bush administration to do it quickly. Which is a shame, especially when you consider we fought for our independence in 1776 but didn't ratify a constitution until 11 years later yet we expected the Iraqis to do it in less than a year.

We did more than humiliate them at Abu Graib, and it's foolish to think that is the only place real torture is being done at. Then there are the Shi'te militia death squads going around. Not all of them belong to Al Sadr so this one can't be scapegoated. We are allowing a lot of people to die, that's not blame America it's the truth.

The provisional government was formed by Bremer and co. which excluded Sunni participation. To my knowledge the current parliament has had trouble ratifying a comprehensive constitution. Iraq is not a sovereign nation yet so executing Hussein now is bad timing, it will be looked at as an American act even if done in Iraqi courts.

Hallelujah and Happy Day!

Now that Saddam is dead, let's go get that Bin Laden fucker!

vtmarik wrote:Now that Saddam is dead, let's go get that Bin Laden fucker!

Yes! The actual person responsible for 9-11!

Better late than never...

bluereaper wrote:I don't care what people say, im happy that this terrorist is dead, though i wished he was killed with little more torture teaching him what he has done to others..but oh well i guess..

People who are against this, think about it for a second, if we totured or commited the same crime against them that they commited, people wouldn't commit those crimes much more, like a sexual assault person, if we cut his balls off or penis..then im pretty sure rest of the same people would think twice about commiting that crime due to the penalty, when people find out they can commit any crime basically and just be sent to jail with clothing and food and a place to stay, it really isn't that bad of a living if you think about it, but if the punishments for certain crimes were more severe, people would stop commiting them being scared of the consiquences.

But hey thats just my oppinion.

BlueReaper..
Posts like this make me happy your on my list! I agree 100% with you here on this issue..

I think tougher consiquences for peoples actions will make them think again.. However, till someone makes america more like turkey where if you steal something your hand gets chopped off, well its just not gonna happen sadly. People are still going to commit crimes..

Hell right now up in NY I have a cousin in jail for fraud and for assulting a police officer and having pot on him... He gets out in 2008 and hes done attempted murder but the girl refused to press charges and so the police didnt do anything about it at all.. We are actually very happy hes locked up and I hope he gets locked up 1 more time for a felony because they have that 3 strikes your in for life thing in NY I believe.. 1 more felony and hes gone for good..yay! I should have reported his ass when he sexually assulted me down here in FL..But hes family and I didnt because I was 18 and wasnt as into law as I am now..nor was I thinking of the others he'd do it to..I'm very ashamed of myself for that 1 thing..only that 1 thing though..That is the only thing I would change about my life is I would have woken my parents up that night (because it happened in our house) and I would have gotten the proof and had him locked up.

No reason to cry over something you cant do anything about anymore though right?

Salva-

vtmarik wrote:Hallelujah and Happy Day!

Now that Saddam is dead, let's go get that Bin Laden fucker!

AMEN!!!

vtmarik wrote:Hallelujah and Happy Day!

Now that Saddam is dead, let's go get that Bin Laden fucker!

lol, I actually did not see this post till now!! I'm sooo there with ya! I say lets actually go get the real person we were supposed to get to begin with! I think its messed up that we had to wait this long to go really get him!! We were supposed to get him first from what I remember...We strayed over this guy how long? Now we can finally focus on our true target..Its like a person who has add and is supposed to do an essay and says ooooo shiney! (and can no longer focus on their true goal!!)

What do you guys think... does the president have add in this case or did he just get side tracked? or was it an excuse to let bin laden get free so the president can get more oil? Tell me your thoughts..

yeah Saddam is dead. but also think about. the whole reason we went into the sand box was for bin laden did we find him nope. we just threw another dictator out of office for next to no reason. he did nothing to us

DogDoc wrote:No, it's just that I'm really, really tired of hearing how EVIL we Americans are and how BAD we are going around TORTURING people when the acts at Abu Graib (which amounted to humiliation of the prisoners for the most part) pale in comparison to what's been done to us. Do I condone torture? Of course, not. But make bad guys out of the bad guys. Not out of us.

Compared to most industrialized nations, yes we are evil, we sponsor terrorists during the cold war, then complain when it comes back to bite us in the ass because we left a ton of arms floating around their country.

One thing i was able to congratulate our country on was its ability to foster an environment for free thinking in universities and laboratories, but i fear that this will all start to dwindle as more radical right wingers take power, and more foreign countries welcome scientists with open arms. A great example of this is Stem Cell Research, we chased scientists out of the uNited States, now they've found a safe haven in Singapore, if this keeps going on we won't have much of a scientific community left here.

We'll lose our edge, and without a huge gap between us and the people whose countries we fucked up i think we will be in deep shit.

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - JRR Tolkien

I'm no leftie but i think if we look at this rationally, who is responsible for more people dying in iraq? some estimates have well over 1 or 2 hundred thousand since the invasion, and less than ten thousand under saddam? based on this who should be given the right to deal out death to whom?

2 hundred thousand? ?? ??? Thats pretty far off. Which side is terroristic and dictatorial? Which side is training Iraqi soldiers and police to protect themselves and liberating innocent villagers to be free?

happysadfun wrote:2 hundred thousand? ?? ??? Thats pretty far off.

I think the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health would agree with you, considering that their researchers think it's closer to 600,000.

Link to a Murdoch rag for you:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 67,00.html

if he is dead so should Bin Ladin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Econ2000 wrote:if he is dead so should Bin Ladin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree