Conquer Club

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist, and is lashing out at effeminate, cheese-eating Europeans who are calling him out on it. It's sad that he thinks "my daddy did it and so did yours" is a legitimate defense of his opinions, but we can all hope that someday he will learn that using history as a justification is ineffective as a convincing argument.

Yes, you are correct.

That being said, I will ask this question (I am not racist after all):

Is there any logical or moral basis for the presumption of the peoples of England, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands to criticize the people of the United States, generally, on race relations?

Generally? No. Individually, sure.

Neoteny wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist, and is lashing out at effeminate, cheese-eating Europeans who are calling him out on it. It's sad that he thinks "my daddy did it and so did yours" is a legitimate defense of his opinions, but we can all hope that someday he will learn that using history as a justification is ineffective as a convincing argument.

Yes, you are correct.

That being said, I will ask this question (I am not racist after all):

Is there any logical or moral basis for the presumption of the peoples of England, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands to criticize the people of the United States, generally, on race relations?

Generally? No. Individually, sure.

Yeah, that would be my answer too (if I could answer on behalf of those countries, which I can't). I guess my beef with the Euros has to do with the presumption that we're all gun-wielding cowboys over here, who hate black people and Mexicans; and, thus, would never elect a black man to the presidency (and when that does happen, it's a miracle).

Why are we so concerned with what some jealous Europeans think? I don't care much for the uninformed opinions of those who believe the most successful country in the world is populated by fat, lazy idiots...

snufkin wrote:The non-answer to questions 1. and 2. is that Europe didn´t have a large black population like the US, but I agree that it´s time for the UK and France to at least consider having a leader that is less than a 100% european.

Wait - we've got a scottish Prime Minister - what more do you want!?

C.

john9blue wrote:...jealous Europeans...

Jealous like the parents of a runaway teenager.

Timminz wrote:Jealous like the parents of a runaway teenager.

But we've grown up now!

john9blue wrote:

Timminz wrote:Jealous like the parents of a runaway teenager.

But we've grown up now!

All grow'd up and moved out on your own. Those fogies don't know nuthin' 'bout the world anyhow.

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist...

Or maybe I'm just fighting for equality. Ever think of that?

So there are 736 MEP's. Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?

I really can't find the info.

HapSmo19 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist...

Or maybe I'm just fighting for equality. Ever think of that?

So there are 736 MEP's. Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?

I really can't find the info.

In your case? No.

Neoteny wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist...

Or maybe I'm just fighting for equality. Ever think of that?

So there are 736 MEP's. Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?

I really can't find the info.

In your case? No.

Is that a "No" to "Ever think of that?" or "Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?"?

HapSmo19 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist...

Or maybe I'm just fighting for equality. Ever think of that?

So there are 736 MEP's. Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?

I really can't find the info.

In your case? No.

Is that a "No" to "Ever think of that?" or "Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?"?

While I am not, in fact, Neoteny, I can say with complete confidence that he meant, "No. No one here would ever think that you were 'just fighting for equality'".

Timminz wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist...

Or maybe I'm just fighting for equality. Ever think of that?

So there are 736 MEP's. Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?

I really can't find the info.

In your case? No.

Is that a "No" to "Ever think of that?" or "Does anyone seriously know how many are black, arab, chinese, etc..?"?

While I am not, in fact, Neoteny, I can say with complete confidence that he meant, "No. No one here would ever think that you were 'just fighting for equality'".

This one.

So you think your schoolin's phoneyyyyyyy!

Timminz wrote:While I am not, in fact, Neoteny, I can say with complete confidence that he meant, "No. No one here would ever think that you were 'just fighting for equality'".

Well, most of you thought B.O. was, but that's besides the point.

I'm just looking for a link to the demographics of the MEP. Surely one of you carries that info around on a 3x5 in your back pocket. Sharing is caring.

HapSmo19 wrote:

Timminz wrote:While I am not, in fact, Neoteny, I can say with complete confidence that he meant, "No. No one here would ever think that you were 'just fighting for equality'".

Well, most of you thought B.O. was, but that's besides the point.

Well, it would be besides the point, if you were actually making one.

I'm just looking for a link to the demographics of the MEP. Surely one of you carries that info around on a 3x5 in your back pocket. Sharing is caring.

Aw, big guy. Did the principal cut you off from google again?

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:I think he's just mad he keeps getting called a racist, and is lashing out at effeminate, cheese-eating Europeans who are calling him out on it. It's sad that he thinks "my daddy did it and so did yours" is a legitimate defense of his opinions, but we can all hope that someday he will learn that using history as a justification is ineffective as a convincing argument.

Yes, you are correct.

That being said, I will ask this question (I am not racist after all):

Is there any logical or moral basis for the presumption of the peoples of England, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands to criticize the people of the United States, generally, on race relations?

Generally? No. Individually, sure.

Yeah, that would be my answer too (if I could answer on behalf of those countries, which I can't). I guess my beef with the Euros has to do with the presumption that we're all gun-wielding cowboys over here, who hate black people and Mexicans; and, thus, would never elect a black man to the presidency (and when that does happen, it's a miracle).

sorry to burst your bubble, but that in itself is also a presumption that (apparently) a lot of Americans share... being biased works both ways

besides, maybe Hollywood and American popular culture should to more to show the rest of the world a little more of that other side of America - I bet that would help! besides, most opinions about these things are not based on personal experiences rather than what we ee and hear about those across the big pond

john9blue wrote:Why are we so concerned with what some jealous Europeans think? I don't care much for the uninformed opinions of those who believe the most successful country in the world is populated by fat, lazy idiots...

Yeah, we are so jealous of how your ideals just ruined the world economy and caused thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs. Not to mention those millions of poor slobs who are working like 20 jobs and still cannot make ends meet... I'd love to live in a country like that!

EDIT: Okay, before I start a riot, I want to point out that what I mean is, a lot of people here apparently feel like we Europeans think we're superior to Americans. This is not true and thinking that is being biased, which is what you criticize Europeans for in the first place. So don't be biased yourself. Some Americans claim to be living in the greatest country in the world. This is mainly because:

a) they have always lived there and it's their home and a lot of the time all they know (which if perfectly normal) -or- they emigrated to America to escape a life of poverty or prosecution abroad (so no wonder they like it so much and are prepared to give all for the American dream, eventhough for many it'll just never happen anyway)

b) it is, as far as I can tell, also somewhat part of your national culture to think of all things American as great or best in the world

And there's nothing wrong with that, but please know that people in other countries, like a lot of Europeans, might not agree with you for a multitude of different reasons. Because they prefer their own way of life like Americans prefer theirs, or because they simply do not see the same thing when looking at America as what an American would see, caused by, among other things, the American government's foreign policy in these last decades- best demonstration was the immense protests held around the world just before the (current) Iraq war and the fact that the US government simply said "screw you world leaders and international organisations and many US citizens, we're going along with it anyway because we are Team America - World Police and we feel like it"

GloryOfThe80s wrote:

john9blue wrote:Why are we so concerned with what some jealous Europeans think? I don't care much for the uninformed opinions of those who believe the most successful country in the world is populated by fat, lazy idiots...

yeah, we are so jealous of how your ideals just ruined the world economy and caused thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs... not to mention those millions of poor slobs who are working like 20 jobs and still cannot make ends meet... I'd love to live in a country like that!

Wait... question... if we're so horrible how in the name of all that is unholy did the United States ruin the world economy and cause thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs? Does that mean our companies employed all those people and basically propped up the world economy? If the answer is yes, you might want to rethink your position.

thegreekdog wrote:

GloryOfThe80s wrote:

john9blue wrote:Why are we so concerned with what some jealous Europeans think? I don't care much for the uninformed opinions of those who believe the most successful country in the world is populated by fat, lazy idiots...

yeah, we are so jealous of how your ideals just ruined the world economy and caused thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs... not to mention those millions of poor slobs who are working like 20 jobs and still cannot make ends meet... I'd love to live in a country like that!

Wait... question... if we're so horrible how in the name of all that is unholy did the United States ruin the world economy and cause thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs? Does that mean our companies employed all those people and basically propped up the world economy? If the answer is yes, you might want to rethink your position.

What I mean is the whole economic meltdown was caused by a way of doing things in the world of big bucks - the whole real estate crisis and the financial mayhem that followed were caused by a culture of acting before you think and just thinking about short term profit. Surely any nation with an active economy will be guilty of this crisis, and I won't deny that Europeans had no part in the whole thing. Nor am I saying that it's the fault of all Americans as a whole that we have this crisis on our hands. But the fact that there are still Americans who do not see any problem at all with the way their economy is run (the excessive, million dollar bonuses are already everywhere and the crisis is not even over) is something I don't get. And stubbornly holding on to the thought that the free economy, without any restrictions or control from the government, is the solution to all of the world's problems is what freaks me out about American culture. We have just experienced it doesn't work that way, or at least not forever.

But please tell me if I'm wrong. I mean no harm, just expressing my opinion here.

I bet I'll be accused of being a commy in one of the next 5 posts

GloryOfThe80s wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

GloryOfThe80s wrote:

john9blue wrote:Why are we so concerned with what some jealous Europeans think? I don't care much for the uninformed opinions of those who believe the most successful country in the world is populated by fat, lazy idiots...

yeah, we are so jealous of how your ideals just ruined the world economy and caused thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs... not to mention those millions of poor slobs who are working like 20 jobs and still cannot make ends meet... I'd love to live in a country like that!

Wait... question... if we're so horrible how in the name of all that is unholy did the United States ruin the world economy and cause thousands of people worldwide to lose their jobs? Does that mean our companies employed all those people and basically propped up the world economy? If the answer is yes, you might want to rethink your position.

What I mean is the whole economic meltdown was caused by a way of doing things in the world of big bucks - the whole real estate crisis and the financial mayhem that followed were caused by a culture of acting before you think and just thinking about short term profit. Surely any nation with an active economy will be guilty of this crisis, and I won't deny that Europeans had no part in the whole thing. Nor am I saying that it's the fault of all Americans as a whole that we have this crisis on our hands. But the fact that there are still Americans who do not see any problem at all with the way their economy is run (the excessive, million dollar bonuses are already everywhere and the crisis is not even over) is something I don't get. And stubbornly holding on to the thought that the free economy, without any restrictions or control from the government, is the solution to all of the world's problems is what freaks me out about American culture. We have just experienced it doesn't work that way, or at least not forever.

But please tell me if I'm wrong. I mean no harm, just expressing my opinion here.

That's not really what I'm saying. I'm not sure what effect non-US companies had on the world economy "crashing" (for lack of a better term).

What I'm saying is that we have one of two scenarios:

(1) Either we're awesome, and we're so awesome that we own and control so much stuff from an economic perspective, that the downfall of a few US companies can wreck the world economy, in which case you guys should be jealous of our awesomeness... thus, you would be jealous; or
(2) We're not that awesome and the world economy going into the shitter was a collective affair by companies and governments from around the world.

In other words, your original post saying you're not jealous because we ruined the world economy is flawed. Because if we can ruin the world economy, we're pretty effing awesome.

Just want to say I said "some" for a reason. Claiming all Europeans are arrogant is just as bad as claiming all Americans are stupid, so I worded it accordingly.

Might respond later...

john9blue wrote:Why are we so concerned with what some jealous Europeans think? I don't care much for the uninformed opinions of those who believe the most successful country in the world is populated by fat, lazy idiots...

Wales is the most successful country in the world?

thegreekdog wrote:In other words, your original post saying you're not jealous because we ruined the world economy is flawed. Because if we can ruin the world economy, we're pretty effing awesome.

I don't know why anyone should be jealous of that ???

-> maybe this proves my point about American culture - you almost seem proud of the fact that America CAN bring down the world economy and cause misery to millions?! I'd be more ashamed of that than proud, but I guess I'll never understand being a snobby European

GloryOfThe80s wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:In other words, your original post saying you're not jealous because we ruined the world economy is flawed. Because if we can ruin the world economy, we're pretty effing awesome.

I don't know why anyone should be jealous of that ???

Look, don't you wish your economy was so great that when it took a bad turn it took everything else down with it?

[Throws hands up in the air] Nevermind...

Let's just say I agree that million dollar bonuses are ridiculous when the company that gives them out also gets bailed out by the government... and then gives out million dollar bonuses.

thegreekdog wrote:Let's just say I agree that million dollar bonuses are ridiculous when the company that gives them out also gets bailed out by the government... and then gives out million dollar bonuses.

well at least we can agree on that then

speaking of which: some people want their government to keep their hands off anything labelled 'economy", but when thousands face losing their jobs because those companies which cannot fail screw up, the government has to step in anyway... like "why doesn't the government do more to battle the crisis and minimise the job loss? that Obama is good for nothing" being said by people who don't want any government interference in the economy to start out with if you go with a certain system and claim it's the best in the world and all other models are inferior, don't be a hypocrit and go to the government crying that you lost your minimum wage job