Conquer Club

Actually it was more like 28

alex951 wrote:

Emmdizzle wrote:Well at least the mods are on my side and their wisdom is all I really need...Peace to all the haters(LOW).

The mods aren't on your side they just don't have the authority to change the current rules

no, they just don't want to set a precedent. iow, they're too afraid that if they convict Emmdizzle of abusing the invite system, more people are going to post a bunch of spurious reports in C&A about random people who they say are abusing the invite system. They just don't want more work.

I know, isn't it great, we've got a guy who is conqueror because the MH's don't want more work (and don't get me wrong, I think they do a good job, but they're not perfect).

Don't hate the playa...hate da game or in this case the site

jrh_cardinal wrote:

alex951 wrote:

Emmdizzle wrote:Well at least the mods are on my side and their wisdom is all I really need...Peace to all the haters(LOW).

The mods aren't on your side they just don't have the authority to change the current rules

no, they just don't want to set a precedent. iow, they're too afraid that if they convict Emmdizzle of abusing the invite system, more people are going to post a bunch of spurious reports in C&A about random people who they say are abusing the invite system. They just don't want more work.

I know, isn't it great, we've got a guy who is conqueror because the MH's don't want more work (and don't get me wrong, I think they do a good job, but they're not perfect).

I cant help at laugh at this one...

ljex wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:

alex951 wrote:

Emmdizzle wrote:Well at least the mods are on my side and their wisdom is all I really need...Peace to all the haters(LOW).

The mods aren't on your side they just don't have the authority to change the current rules

no, they just don't want to set a precedent. iow, they're too afraid that if they convict Emmdizzle of abusing the invite system, more people are going to post a bunch of spurious reports in C&A about random people who they say are abusing the invite system. They just don't want more work.

I know, isn't it great, we've got a guy who is conqueror because the MH's don't want more work (and don't get me wrong, I think they do a good job, but they're not perfect).

I cant help at laugh at this one...

do you disagree?

jrh_cardinal wrote:

ljex wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:

alex951 wrote:

Emmdizzle wrote:Well at least the mods are on my side and their wisdom is all I really need...Peace to all the haters(LOW).

The mods aren't on your side they just don't have the authority to change the current rules

no, they just don't want to set a precedent. iow, they're too afraid that if they convict Emmdizzle of abusing the invite system, more people are going to post a bunch of spurious reports in C&A about random people who they say are abusing the invite system. They just don't want more work.

I know, isn't it great, we've got a guy who is conqueror because the MH's don't want more work (and don't get me wrong, I think they do a good job, but they're not perfect).

I cant help at laugh at this one...

do you disagree?

Yes, I completely disagree,
1) setting a precedent is not something that should be taken lightly and i think we can all agree that as of now he isn't breaking any rules.
2) How many people can you find who have similar uses of the invite system to Emmdizzle?

Also i dont really get why all of you congratulate Blitz for his stellar achievement and then hate on Emmdizzle for the way he got to #1. The only way to become conqueror is to find flaw in the system so to speak where you can still win points even when your score is 4.5k which is not easy to do.

ljex wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:do you disagree?

Yes, I completely disagree,
1) setting a precedent is not something that should be taken lightly and i think we can all agree that as of now he isn't breaking any rules.
2) How many people can you find who have similar uses of the invite system to Emmdizzle?

Also i dont really get why all of you congratulate Blitz for his stellar achievement and then hate on Emmdizzle for the way he got to #1. The only way to become conqueror is to find flaw in the system so to speak where you can still win points even when your score is 4.5k which is not easy to do.

1) no, it's not, but at some point you have to set precedents. And no, obviously he's not breaking any official rules because they don't want to set the rules
2) no one, but I'm there are some who would post a C&A report just cause they saw one or two invites expire

Yes, you have to find a flaw in the system. Blitz played one map with the same settings and a relatively low ranked team time and time again, there's nothing wrong with that. Emmdizzle did the same thing, but then took it further with his invite system. At least blitz let in whoever wanted to join

king achilles wrote:As what lord voldemort said, we do not have any current rules or precedent for this

yes, I know I cut out most of the post, but this is the important part. No, there is no precedent because this has never happened before. You have to set a precedent for everything the first time it happens, otherwise there will never be a precedent.

jrh_cardinal wrote:

ljex wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:do you disagree?

Yes, I completely disagree,
1) setting a precedent is not something that should be taken lightly and i think we can all agree that as of now he isn't breaking any rules.
2) How many people can you find who have similar uses of the invite system to Emmdizzle?

Also i dont really get why all of you congratulate Blitz for his stellar achievement and then hate on Emmdizzle for the way he got to #1. The only way to become conqueror is to find flaw in the system so to speak where you can still win points even when your score is 4.5k which is not easy to do.

1) no, it's not, but at some point you have to set precedents. And no, obviously he's not breaking any official rules because they don't want to set the rules
2) no one, but I'm there are some who would post a C&A report just cause they saw one or two invites expire

Yes, you have to find a flaw in the system. Blitz played one map with the same settings and a relatively low ranked team time and time again, there's nothing wrong with that. Emmdizzle did the same thing, but then took it further with his invite system. At least blitz let in whoever wanted to join

Would you think a precedent needed to be set if emmdizzle foed everyone who he thought could beat him?

No, that is completely irrelevant.

I think that is a sorry way of trying to win, but I do not think that anyone (including Emmdizzle) should be punished for it. You are allowed to foe anyone you don't like and he can say he doesn't like them, there's no way to disprove that.

However, you CAN say that it gives a player an unfair advantage to reserve one spot on every team. Even if you are expecting the invites to be accepted, please tell me how to explain away inviting one person to each two person team in a public game.

the.killing.44 wrote:No, that is completely irrelevant.

How is that irrelevant?

Emmdizzle invites people to his games they can then join/decline. If they accept the invite they can invite their partner to the game. I understand that this causes people who want to join the game not to because they cant get an established team in without an invite received by one of the players. It does not stop established teams from joining though.

It is of note that i dont agree with the use of this method, i just dont feel that what he is doing is against the rules or that it should be...

jrh_cardinal wrote:I think that is a sorry way of trying to win, but I do not think that anyone (including Emmdizzle) should be punished for it. You are allowed to foe anyone you don't like and he can say he doesn't like them, there's no way to disprove that.

However, you CAN say that it gives a player an unfair advantage to reserve one spot on every team. Even if you are expecting the invites to be accepted, please tell me how to explain away inviting one person to each two person team in a public game.

Not really that hard, i want to play them but dont know who they want their partner to be...

ljex wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:I think that is a sorry way of trying to win, but I do not think that anyone (including Emmdizzle) should be punished for it. You are allowed to foe anyone you don't like and he can say he doesn't like them, there's no way to disprove that.

However, you CAN say that it gives a player an unfair advantage to reserve one spot on every team. Even if you are expecting the invites to be accepted, please tell me how to explain away inviting one person to each two person team in a public game.

Not really that hard, i want to play them but dont know who they want their partner to be...

I was hoping you would say that
this is one very good time to consider the private game option. If you don't want to fill all three teams (besides your own), you can go to callouts for the fourth, or you can PM the players prior to making the game and ask who they want their partner to be, then make the game public and invite both team members at once, leaving the remaining team(s) blank if you want other people to join

jrh_cardinal wrote:

ljex wrote:

jrh_cardinal wrote:I think that is a sorry way of trying to win, but I do not think that anyone (including Emmdizzle) should be punished for it. You are allowed to foe anyone you don't like and he can say he doesn't like them, there's no way to disprove that.

However, you CAN say that it gives a player an unfair advantage to reserve one spot on every team. Even if you are expecting the invites to be accepted, please tell me how to explain away inviting one person to each two person team in a public game.

Not really that hard, i want to play them but dont know who they want their partner to be...

I was hoping you would say that
this is one very good time to consider the private game option. If you don't want to fill all three teams (besides your own), you can go to callouts for the fourth, or you can PM the players prior to making the game and ask who they want their partner to be, then make the game public and invite both team members at once, leaving the remaining team(s) blank if you want other people to join

just because this will not always work it is easier than the things you have listed...and thus because CC is designed for the casual gamer it should be allowed.

I really dont want to continue this conversation, clearly neither of us is going to change our opinion and thus we are just wasting eachothers time.

fair enough

Nothing wrong with this method, congrats for your way of working the system.

Kiron wrote:Nothing wrong with this method, congrats for your way of working the system.

You are really mistaken if you think that this is acceptable.

Bruceswar wrote:

Kiron wrote:Nothing wrong with this method, congrats for your way of working the system.

You are really mistaken if you think that this is acceptable.

I think the best thing CC can do is:

1) Allow people to do this if they want
2) Add filters to the scoreboards that filter out those players who have engaged in community consensus-defined harvesting techniques
Could make a scoreboard called the "Clean" scoreboard. It would be much harder to get to the top of the clean scoreboard using shady strategies because a number of filters would weed out players that engage in various behaviors of this sort

Less work for mods

That way, mods don't have to consider C&A allegations against every harvester (which they are unwilling to do anyway - it kills the fun and is not practical given the amount of time required for investigations)
They just have to come to a consensus as to what the filter rules will be. These can be adjusted as the consensus shifts.

Promotes positive CC atmosphere

C&A investigations for harvesters will undoubtedly rile emotions - there will be gray areas, someone right on the cusp of some rule limit, for example. This would add unneeded strife to the CC community.

Protects players rights

Any player who is negatively affected by the filtering rules is only negatively affected in that they do not show up on a certain filtered scoreboard (could also retain the unfiltered scoreboard). If mods have to punish harvesters for cheating, a wrongly accused person could be permanently banned, which is far worse than not showing up on a particular scoreboard.

ljex wrote:Yes, I completely disagree,
1) setting a precedent is not something that should be taken lightly and i think we can all agree that as of now he isn't breaking any rules.
2) How many people can you find who have similar uses of the invite system to Emmdizzle?

Also i dont really get why all of you congratulate Blitz for his stellar achievement and then hate on Emmdizzle for the way he got to #1. The only way to become conqueror is to find flaw in the system so to speak where you can still win points even when your score is 4.5k which is not easy to do.

ljex, your point about him not breaking any rules "now" is interesting. I think we can all agree that he has "never" broken any rules. And, this serious business of setting a precedent -- is not uniformly serious. Setting a precedent by score-reset and permaban is indeed very serious, but I think in this case we can at least hope for a "warning".

I am yet to come upon a solid argument as to why this is not an abuse of the system. Of course he is free to invite anyone he wants, as is everyone else, but his intention here is clearly to block out other teams. He is clearly not using the invitation system in the way it was meant to be. If it were just done for 1 or 2 games, then fine, we can ignore it -- but he has done it time and again.

I also do not understand why the mods are so willing to overlook this. This is not the same as Blitz or Herpes, this is a whole different level. We had a poll in the C&A forum where 80% of the people considered this abuse -- that is not a statistic to be taken lightly. Do the CC mods feel that they understand justice better than us peasants? What would it take for the mods to change their minds 90%, 99%? would be good to know.

We understand very well the reason to have a judiciary, and how they should not heed to popular opinion -- but even in the strictest constitution, an 80% majority is enough to set new rules.

Also, I can guarantee you that if you create the same poll for Blitz, herpes, Mhennigan, rabbiton, you wont get the same level of agreement. Even though each of them have used the flaws of the system at one point or another.

My reason for sending invitations out is to not only fill games faster, but to cut down on cooks, cadets, and privates joining as well. As I've said in the previous C&A forum( Nov 5 2009-the first time I was accused of this) I only invite Sergeant FC (premium only) and above. Now that constitutes the upper 26.5% of the CC community. I have invited colonels and brigs but they regularly refuse my invitations and as you can see when the invitations expire a lot of low ranking freemiums join and that's what I'm trying to avoid. I don't get this established teams argument...when I create 20 games at a time I'm not going to wait for "established teams" to join. I want these games filling as soon as possible and that's why I send out invitations and these players as has been stated before can invite whomever they please, otherwise cooks, cadets, and privates will join and then when other players look to see who I'm playing against...I get labeled a farmer (which only pertains to NR's anyway). When your 4500 points plus playing with cooks on your team is just smart, but most of you wouldn't get that because you'll never see the summit of Mount CC anyway.

Emmdizzle wrote:My reason for sending invitations out is to not only fill games faster, but to cut down on cooks, cadets, and privates joining as well.

Ha.

Emmdizzle wrote:I have invited colonels and brigs but they regularly refuse my invitations

I lmao'd at this. Who are you kidding? And if you only invite good premiums, why is it that no good premiums have come forward and agreed that you invited them.



and playing with sub-500 cooks is smart if you want to get the highest score possible. There are many people on this thread who I would say are better players at CC than you. Not necessarily better at 8 man freestyle foggy dubs on Oasis, but better at just about everything else.

jrh_cardinal wrote:

Emmdizzle wrote:I have invited colonels and brigs but they regularly refuse my invitations

I lmao'd at this. Who are you kidding? And if you only invite good premiums, why is it that no good premiums have come forward and agreed that you invited them.

Emmdizzle invite me to a game a few months back. You must consider that 25% of CC is 5000 people and we really dont have that many active forum members.

Nuff said. Ijex proved I'm telling the truth.

he did invite me ljex, and I rock
He negated the + points for that though by dropping the next game I joined when I invited my dubs partner along for the ride, a Major