Conquer Club

Yeah i'd have to say that the bail outs are part of Bush's steaming pile.


Honibaz

pimpdave wrote:

thegreekdog wrote: President Obama's major domestic policies so far in his presidency have been to... bail out a number of companies

That ball was already rolling. It's reasonable, based on Bush's own bailing out of banks, to assume that he would have done the same thing.

Yes, so I guess that's not Obama's fix, that's Bush's fix? Not sure what that has to do with what.

thegreekdog wrote:

pimpdave wrote:That ball was already rolling. It's reasonable, based on Bush's own bailing out of banks, to assume that he would have done the same thing.

Yes, so I guess that's not Obama's fix, that's Bush's fix? Not sure what that has to do with what.

I'm saying the bailouts are neither a negative or a positive. They're more like casualties of war. Shit happens, that sort of thing.

My big problem with Obama is that he took immediate action in calling a moratorium on drilling in the gulf. He showed decisive and quick action there (although I still don't think he should have done that). Why hasn't he taken decisive and swift action in demanding regulation and clear understanding of what Wall Street is doing with that TARP money? Also, he should be breaking up these banks, so they never have to be bailed out again, cause they won't be able to hold us ransom with this too big to let fail baloney.

Instead of calling for a moratorium on drilling (and thus losing those rigs to Brazil and elsewhere), why didn't he call for immediate emergency inspections on all current operating rigs?

Bush was very vocal about deregulation. I fault him with that. You can make the excuse that he just drank the Kool-Aid, but I don't buy that. I think they were all just looking to get rich quick and force a new bubble in real estate to distract from the bursting of the tech one.

Obama should be more decisive in this area, and stop giving a shit about winning another term. I wish he had a bit more James K. Polk in him, or even Teddy Roosevelt, and had that attitude of "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead". Just do what you set out to do, and if you get reelected like Roosevelt did, cool. If you don't, then you actually had a productive 4 years, rather than 4 years of treading water followed by 4 more years of frustration caused by the inevitable rise of the opposition party in Congress.

The never ending cycle of politics.

Summary: The bail outs aren't the problem, the lack of regulation and the size of these banks are. Do something about that.

pimpdave wrote:Summary: The bail outs aren't the problem, the lack of regulation and the size of these banks are. Do something about that.

Agreed. Maybe I should be clearer. From a theoretical perspective, I'm anti-bailouts. From a realistic perspective, the bailouts needed something more to them; some teeth or something. I'm afraid it's just going to happen again. Pedro posted an interesting KSM thingy (where they draw on the white board) - basically it said that the banks/financial institutions are making money without doing anything and it's draining loot from companies that actually do something. Or something like that. Unfortunatley, and cynically, the banks and financial institutions give a lot of money to all political sides of the equation and they indirectly control a lot of the governmental stuff. I'm all for breaking those banks up.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

tzor wrote:

The Bison King wrote:

And how exactly is President Obama cleaning up the steaming pile of shit that is the Iraq War?

The fact that we're even still in the war! It's supposed to be over. Are you aware that this is the longest military engagement the US has ever been in? It can't be won and everyone expects him to do something about it. Not to mention that it's a horrible waste of money. Maybe we could do something about the economy if we weren't wasting billions of dollars fighting lunatic fanatics.

Are you sure you aren't talking about Afghanistan? Besides the "longest military engagement" is by a long margin, Korea. Technically speaking we are still at war with North Korea. Our troops are huddled at the DMV waiting for those starved troops to either invade or die of fammine.

North Korean troops aren't starving that's the peasants job.

No one at all in the DPRK would be starving if not for the expansionist militarism of the West. As I type this, warmongering forces of the Seoul puppet regime are preparing to pour over the DMZ and aggress the farmers and workers of the democratic sector of Korea.

Facing the choice between being murder-raped or starvation, the citizens of the DPRK have chosen to embolden the Songun policy of popular self-defense to protect the Juche idea, the Movement for the Three-Revolution Banner and the integrity of the people's property that they fought hard to wrench from the hands of Tokyo's Crysanthemum Throne.

"No more shall we be forced to our knees in front of the limp genitalia of the princes of capitalism," the farmers and workers of Korea cry out in unified, revolutionary acclaim. "The imperialist Japanese war-crimes regime, the Seoul puppet government and the puppet masters themselves, will be pushed back in any attempt they make to steal the property of the people."

Now it is revealed that the false flag casus belli - the so-called "torpedoing" of a puppet regime missile corvette - was just a ploy by the South to move the peninsula to the brink of war and satiate their bloodlust:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20 ... /2055/NEWS

saxitoxin wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

tzor wrote:

The Bison King wrote:

And how exactly is President Obama cleaning up the steaming pile of shit that is the Iraq War?

The fact that we're even still in the war! It's supposed to be over. Are you aware that this is the longest military engagement the US has ever been in? It can't be won and everyone expects him to do something about it. Not to mention that it's a horrible waste of money. Maybe we could do something about the economy if we weren't wasting billions of dollars fighting lunatic fanatics.

Are you sure you aren't talking about Afghanistan? Besides the "longest military engagement" is by a long margin, Korea. Technically speaking we are still at war with North Korea. Our troops are huddled at the DMV waiting for those starved troops to either invade or die of fammine.

North Korean troops aren't starving that's the peasants job.

No one at all in the DPRK would be starving if not for the expansionist militarism of the West. As I type this, warmongering forces of the Seoul puppet regime are preparing to pour over the DMZ and aggress the farmers and workers of the democratic sector of Korea.

Facing the choice between being murder-raped or starvation, the citizens of the DPRK have chosen to embolden the Songun policy of popular self-defense to protect the Juche idea, the Movement for the Three-Revolution Banner and the integrity of the people's property that they fought hard to wrench from the hands of Tokyo's Crysanthemum Throne.

"No more shall we be forced to our knees in front of the limp genitalia of the princes of capitalism," the farmers and workers of Korea cry out in unified, revolutionary acclaim. "The imperialist Japanese war-crimes regime, the Seoul puppet government and the puppet masters themselves, will be pushed back in any attempt they make to steal the property of the people."

Now it is revealed that the false flag casus belli - the so-called "torpedoing" of a puppet regime missile corvette - was just a ploy by the South to move the peninsula to the brink of war and satiate their bloodlust:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20 ... /2055/NEWS

I agree the chances are very good that it was false flag. That's all I agree with. I often think we arrive at the same conclusions, while taking completely different paths to get to them.

Interesting?

Phatscotty wrote: I agree the chances are very good that it was false flag. That's all I agree with. I often think we arrive at the same conclusions, while taking completely different paths to get to them.

Interesting?

*tickle tickle*

*Saxi tickles Scott!*

the trip is a luxury for tourists, Scott; travelers care about the destination

saxitoxin wrote:No one at all in the DPRK would be starving if not for the expansionist militarism of the West. As I type this, warmongering forces of the Seoul puppet regime are preparing to pour over the DMZ and aggress the farmers and workers of the democratic sector of Korea.

Facing the choice between being murder-raped or starvation, the citizens of the DPRK have chosen to embolden the Songun policy of popular self-defense to protect the Juche idea, the Movement for the Three-Revolution Banner and the integrity of the people's property that they fought hard to wrench from the hands of Tokyo's Crysanthemum Throne.

"No more shall we be forced to our knees in front of the limp genitalia of the princes of capitalism," the farmers and workers of Korea cry out in unified, revolutionary acclaim. "The imperialist Japanese war-crimes regime, the Seoul puppet government and the puppet masters themselves, will be pushed back in any attempt they make to steal the property of the people."

Now it is revealed that the false flag casus belli - the so-called "torpedoing" of a puppet regime missile corvette - was just a ploy by the South to move the peninsula to the brink of war and satiate their bloodlust:

That's why I like you saxi; your propaganda is just so silly in an over the top way.

tzor wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:No one at all in the DPRK would be starving if not for the expansionist militarism of the West. As I type this, warmongering forces of the Seoul puppet regime are preparing to pour over the DMZ and aggress the farmers and workers of the democratic sector of Korea.

Facing the choice between being murder-raped or starvation, the citizens of the DPRK have chosen to embolden the Songun policy of popular self-defense to protect the Juche idea, the Movement for the Three-Revolution Banner and the integrity of the people's property that they fought hard to wrench from the hands of Tokyo's Crysanthemum Throne.

"No more shall we be forced to our knees in front of the limp genitalia of the princes of capitalism," the farmers and workers of Korea cry out in unified, revolutionary acclaim. "The imperialist Japanese war-crimes regime, the Seoul puppet government and the puppet masters themselves, will be pushed back in any attempt they make to steal the property of the people."

Now it is revealed that the false flag casus belli - the so-called "torpedoing" of a puppet regime missile corvette - was just a ploy by the South to move the peninsula to the brink of war and satiate their bloodlust:

That's why I like you saxi; your propaganda is just so silly in an over the top way.

*tickle tickle*

*Saxi tickles Tzor!*

I've very roughly paraphrased this from the "Internationalist Agitator's Lodestar" to be more culturally familiar to North Americans and their beloved blue-jean pants and doo-wop food stuffs:

Most people don't like anchovies on their pizza so most cooks don't put anchovies on pizza. If ol' Saxi bakes one, though, all those anchovy lovers come to eat at Saxi's house!

Frigidus wrote:Hahaha, Bush was one of the worst presidents in our history. Obama has, at worst, been a non-entity.

Non-entity? Pull your Bush hating head out of your ass.

angola wrote:

ViperOverLord wrote:Remember all the verbal GW Bush hating? How could you not? No other man was verbally hated so furiously by so many people in an 8 year span. Jesus might have faced more verbal hate back in the day but even that only lasted 3 years.

Bush was verbally hated something serious. But Obama is really starting to make him look pretty dang good right about now.

If Bush was hated as much as Jesus, who will be our Judas?

Colin Powell

joecoolfrog wrote:

ViperOverLord wrote:Remember all the verbal GW Bush hating? How could you not? No other man was verbally hated so furiously by so many people in an 8 year span. Jesus might have faced more verbal hate back in the day but even that only lasted 3 years.

Bush was verbally hated something serious. But Obama is really starting to make him look pretty dang good right about now.

He might be unpopular in the US but by contrast Bush was detested worlwide, Obama has done nothing yet to warrant any comparison.

I wasn't inviting a hate comparison more than I was pointing out that Obama's unAmerican ways are failing miserable and making Bush look better by contrast.

As for world opinion - US unemployment could be 25 percent and Obama would still be rock star (unless people started blaming the US for their own failed economies). There is a reason that foreign countries are not allowed to donate to our campaigns. We take limited stock in their opinions of us. Don't confuse the talking point of world perception of Amercians with the reality of the situation.

Obama kissed Iran's ass with both lips, both cheeks and that would not limit the possibility of getting your ass thrown into jail for 20 years if you were in Iran. That's an extreme example, but I am saying that nations are generally programmed a certain way to begin with. Of course the socialistic media of Europe loved Obama.

Woodruff wrote:

ViperOverLord wrote:But Obama is really starting to make him look pretty dang good right about now.

Um...no. Not even remotely, actually. As unhappy as I am with Obama, it doesn't even come near the disdain I felt for Bush.

Sounds like a personal problem.

The Bison King wrote:

And how exactly is President Obama cleaning up the steaming pile of shit that is the Iraq War?

The fact that we're even still in the war! It's supposed to be over. Are you aware that this is the longest military engagement the US has ever been in? It can't be won and everyone expects him to do something about it. Not to mention that it's a horrible waste of money. Maybe we could do something about the economy if we weren't wasting billions of dollars fighting lunatic fanatics.

Bush wrecked the economy, Bush got us into the war, Bush lost the trust of the American people.

Now it's Obama's job to Fix the economy, get us out of the war, and win back our trust. Now I'll admit that he hasn't been doing a stellar job at any of these tasks, and maybe someone else could be doing a better job, but It's not fair to say that he's a worse president that Bush because Obama looks bad digging himself out of Bush's hole.

You clearly have no idea how our economy got f'd up and you have no clue why it is continuing to go bad and you'll have no clue when the shizz hits the fan. And if you're still clinging to your Bush hating by then, you will be a completely useless person if you aren't already.

thegreekdog wrote:

The Bison King wrote:

And how exactly is President Obama cleaning up the steaming pile of shit that is the Iraq War?

The fact that we're even still in the war! It's supposed to be over. Are you aware that this is the longest military engagement the US has ever been in? It can't be won and everyone expects him to do something about it. Not to mention that it's a horrible waste of money. Maybe we could do something about the economy if we weren't wasting billions of dollars fighting lunatic fanatics.

Bush wrecked the economy, Bush got us into the war, Bush lost the trust of the American people.

Now it's Obama's job to Fix the economy, get us out of the war, and win back our trust. Now I'll admit that he hasn't been doing a stellar job at any of these tasks, and maybe someone else could be doing a better job, but It's not fair to say that he's a worse president that Bush because Obama looks bad digging himself out of Bush's hole.

I agree that Bush got is into two wars. (1) I agree that Bush lost the trust of the American people. I do not agree that Bush wrecked the economy (there's too much blame to go around on that particular issue). I would urge you to take a look at the president election from 2008 and see what the major issues are.

President Obama's major domestic policies so far in his presidency have been to pass the health insurance plan, bail out a number of companies, a jobs creation bill, and regulate the financial system. Of those items, none of them were in direct response to something Bush did. With respect to foreign policy, I will give that President Obama has attempted to repair international relations with other nations (although it appears to my untrained eye that relations with Israel and Russia have taken a turn for the worse). However, we are still in two wars and the Patriot Act is still around (and by all accounts is used with more vigor than under President Bush).

So, while I think certainly that President Obama is a better alternative to President Bush, I do not think one can say that President Obama's problems are due to the shit that President Bush left him.

(1) Really? He got us into two wars? Because it was Clinton that dropped the ball on Osama and it was Clinton that turned a blind eye to Saddam, although I blame Bush I for not exterminating that sorry piece of trash in the first place. In retrospect we can claim all we want that we didn't have to go to war with Iraq, but it was Clinton's failed CIA oversight that led to faulty intelligence. Irregardless of blame, I'll be damned if I want my president to sit on his hands while insane factions deal in potential nuclear proliferation. You can say that Bush f'd up the aftermath of Iraq but that's really overstating it. We're dealing with suicide bombers and we've done a lot of good for their people.

BAZILLION-POST FTW

pimpdave wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

pimpdave wrote:That ball was already rolling. It's reasonable, based on Bush's own bailing out of banks, to assume that he would have done the same thing.

Yes, so I guess that's not Obama's fix, that's Bush's fix? Not sure what that has to do with what.

I'm saying the bailouts are neither a negative or a positive. They're more like casualties of war. Shit happens, that sort of thing.

My big problem with Obama is that he took immediate action in calling a moratorium on drilling in the gulf. He showed decisive and quick action there (although I still don't think he should have done that). Why hasn't he taken decisive and swift action in demanding regulation and clear understanding of what Wall Street is doing with that TARP money? Also, he should be breaking up these banks, so they never have to be bailed out again, cause they won't be able to hold us ransom with this too big to let fail baloney.

Instead of calling for a moratorium on drilling (and thus losing those rigs to Brazil and elsewhere), why didn't he call for immediate emergency inspections on all current operating rigs?

Bush was very vocal about deregulation. I fault him with that. You can make the excuse that he just drank the Kool-Aid, but I don't buy that. I think they were all just looking to get rich quick and force a new bubble in real estate to distract from the bursting of the tech one.

Obama should be more decisive in this area, and stop giving a shit about winning another term. I wish he had a bit more James K. Polk in him, or even Teddy Roosevelt, and had that attitude of "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead". Just do what you set out to do, and if you get reelected like Roosevelt did, cool. If you don't, then you actually had a productive 4 years, rather than 4 years of treading water followed by 4 more years of frustration caused by the inevitable rise of the opposition party in Congress.

The never ending cycle of politics.

Summary: The bail outs aren't the problem, the lack of regulation and the size of these banks are. Do something about that.

Thanks for writing a diatribe for me to ignore pd. You've said to many nutty flaming things to bother taking you seriously.

ViperOverLord wrote:

pimpdave wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

pimpdave wrote:That ball was already rolling. It's reasonable, based on Bush's own bailing out of banks, to assume that he would have done the same thing.

Yes, so I guess that's not Obama's fix, that's Bush's fix? Not sure what that has to do with what.

I'm saying the bailouts are neither a negative or a positive. They're more like casualties of war. Shit happens, that sort of thing.

My big problem with Obama is that he took immediate action in calling a moratorium on drilling in the gulf. He showed decisive and quick action there (although I still don't think he should have done that). Why hasn't he taken decisive and swift action in demanding regulation and clear understanding of what Wall Street is doing with that TARP money? Also, he should be breaking up these banks, so they never have to be bailed out again, cause they won't be able to hold us ransom with this too big to let fail baloney.

Instead of calling for a moratorium on drilling (and thus losing those rigs to Brazil and elsewhere), why didn't he call for immediate emergency inspections on all current operating rigs?

Bush was very vocal about deregulation. I fault him with that. You can make the excuse that he just drank the Kool-Aid, but I don't buy that. I think they were all just looking to get rich quick and force a new bubble in real estate to distract from the bursting of the tech one.

Obama should be more decisive in this area, and stop giving a shit about winning another term. I wish he had a bit more James K. Polk in him, or even Teddy Roosevelt, and had that attitude of "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead". Just do what you set out to do, and if you get reelected like Roosevelt did, cool. If you don't, then you actually had a productive 4 years, rather than 4 years of treading water followed by 4 more years of frustration caused by the inevitable rise of the opposition party in Congress.

The never ending cycle of politics.

Summary: The bail outs aren't the problem, the lack of regulation and the size of these banks are. Do something about that.

Thanks for writing a diatribe for me to ignore pd. You've said to many nutty flaming things to bother taking you seriously.

Translation: Gee, my repertoire consists entirely of calling my opponents douchy America haters. Although there are people on this forum that could debate this on an intellectual level, I am not one of them. Let's fall back on more character assassination.

saxitoxin wrote:Most people don't like anchovies on their pizza so most cooks don't put anchovies on pizza. If ol' Saxi bakes one, though, all those anchovy lovers come to eat at Saxi's house!

Count me in! Normally I prefer my anchovies on my Caesar Salad, but they are great on the pizza as well.

Obviously, regulation as we know it has not and is not working. There is more regulation every year. It is similar to spending more on education every year, only to get worse results overall.

Government is still the main problem in this scenario. A crappy gov't regulations is crappy regulations. Everything this congress passes takes away freedoms and rights and liberties. Throw em out, start over. And if it does not have at least some kind of productive reform/regulation for fannie and freddie, then it doesn't float.

Bonus points to whomever can first identify which of Saxi's FAV French anarcho-communist theorists said:

Government ... under pretext of public utility ... is to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.

Workers of all countries, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains - you have a world to win!

saxitoxin wrote:Bonus points to whomever can first identify which of Saxi's FAV French anarcho-communist theorists said:

Government ... under pretext of public utility ... is to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.

Workers of all countries, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains - you have a world to win!

your quote. I know it's real...

saxitoxin wrote:Bonus points to whomever can first identify which of Saxi's FAV French anarcho-communist theorists said:

Government ... under pretext of public utility ... is to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.

Workers of all countries, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains - you have a world to win!

I had to cheat so i won't say. It isin't who i thought it was though.

Phatscotty wrote: freddie

Keep Freddie Mercury out of this!