Conquer Club

Timminz wrote:There is actually a method to skip turns coded into the site. It's the "Skip This Game" link right next to the "Start Turn" button.

I think you are missing what this thread is about entirely, Timminz. The Skip this game link does not skip the actual turn.

Unless you were just being funny with your post?

netspyman wrote: What he did is "intentional deadbeating" by missing his turn. Thats just my opinion.

What he did was not defined as "deadbeating." Deadbeating is when you miss 3 or more turns in a game. Then you are kicked out of the game. ljex is describing a single missed turn here.

Though it may not be the best play on the board, it would have certainly been silly of a person to commit "suicide" and take the game from his/her teammates. If you were in that situation, would you have hit the start button if you knew it meant deciding the game? If you miss the turn, you win, if not, you lose.....think about it a minute.

As another poster stated, there really should be a "Give Up Turn" button. I already defended at this stage of CC's life, it has evolved to pick up new strategies and gaming options (freestyle and resetting territories). Offering to intentionally miss a turn would be far and few between, and could ultimatly hurt or help you by the end of the game.

You guys are all comparing home games here too. No one would miss a turn in a home game because of this same reason. There is no tactical advantage to missing turns (that I can think of, even in 2210ad). So of course it wouldnt happen.

jackal31 wrote:

netspyman wrote: What he did is "intentional deadbeating" by missing his turn. Thats just my opinion.

What he did was not defined as "deadbeating." Deadbeating is when you miss 3 or more turns in a game. Then you are kicked out of the game. ljex is describing a single missed turn here.

Though it may not be the best play on the board, it would have certainly been silly of a person to commit "suicide" and take the game from his/her teammates. If you were in that situation, would you have hit the start button if you knew it meant deciding the game? If you miss the turn, you win, if not, you lose.....think about it a minute.

As another poster stated, there really should be a "Give Up Turn" button. I already defended at this stage of CC's life, it has evolved to pick up new strategies and gaming options (freestyle and resetting territories). Offering to intentionally miss a turn would be far and few between, and could ultimatly hurt or help you by the end of the game.

You guys are all comparing home games here too. No one would miss a turn in a home game because of this same reason. There is no tactical advantage to missing turns (that I can think of, even in 2210ad). So of course it wouldnt happen.

Clicking the begin turn did not equate to a loss for the other team...in fact they still had the advantage if the player who intentionally missed began their turn.

I dont know about everyone else, but i would begin my turn and get eliminated...thats how the game is supposed to work so i would accept that and move on to the next game.

If missing turns is wrong then I don't ever wanna be right. [game]3960030[/game]

not against the rules... the black jesus has spoken...-the black jesus

owenshooter wrote:not against the rules... the black jesus has spoken...-the black jesus

the question was not is it against the rules...the question was is it cheap tactics

It would be cheap if it was something they did on purpose, and often. Somehow I doubt they're going to end up in a similar position in a game anytime soon. It remains a smart play made in a a desperate situation. Dealing with a tough spot in the best way possible.

Timminz wrote:It would be cheap if it was something they did on purpose, and often. Somehow I doubt they're going to end up in a similar position in a game anytime soon. It remains a smart play made in a a desperate situation. Dealing with a tough spot in the best way possible.

Quite frankly, youd be crazy not to do the same yourself in a similar situation.

I've been thinking about this thread for a bit. Here is my take on it for what it is worth.

One of the things that truly bugged me in my first weeks here a year ago was the whole "miss a turn to try to gain an advantage" method of play when things get tough that I seemed to experience in many of my early games with lower ranks of which I was one. It especially rankled my arse in speed games. Yeah. It was only a five minute wait. But it was a speed game and the ploy irked me. King H or demon posted something about what to do when you encounter that ploy to negate its "by the power of Gray Skull" approach and then it was all good. But it meant that I had to put that in my game plan and be willing to wait the turn out. My conclusion there? Chronic use of this tactic is certainly gross abuse of the game. The fact that we aren't penalized for missing a single turn (other than missing a single turn in the game) is meant to acknowledge the fact that real-life can interrupt. On this most of us agree.

In this case though? Seems like a smart, last gasp strategy to save the game. And so I agree totally with these thoughts above mine:

AAFitz wrote:

Timminz wrote:It would be cheap if it was something they did on purpose, and often. Somehow I doubt they're going to end up in a similar position in a game anytime soon. It remains a smart play made in a a desperate situation. Dealing with a tough spot in the best way possible.

Quite frankly, youd be crazy not to do the same yourself in a similar situation.

Cheers mate.

E.

Many cheap tactics are smart strategy. Doesn't make it right though. Not a rules violation but definitely should reflect fair play and attitude ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ta7mkgrOU

i think this only becomes against the rules when they continually miss turns to exploit it..
however it is very much cheap tactics...
anything that manipulates the state of regular play is cheap tactics imo

AAFitz wrote:

Timminz wrote:It would be cheap if it was something they did on purpose, and often. Somehow I doubt they're going to end up in a similar position in a game anytime soon. It remains a smart play made in a a desperate situation. Dealing with a tough spot in the best way possible.

Quite frankly, youd be crazy not to do the same yourself in a similar situation.

It might make your situation worse, but at least you'd retain your honor ;P

I think it's cheap. I couldn't bring myself to do that against a team I respected. It's not entirely devoid of strategy, though, so I'm not sure how pissed off I could get about it. Cheap, but clever enough to make me smile after I was done raging.

Master Fenrir wrote:I think it's cheap. I couldn't bring myself to do that against a team I respected. It's not entirely devoid of strategy, though, so I'm not sure how pissed off I could get about it. Cheap, but clever enough to make me smile after I was done raging.

Oh im not really mad at the strategy...yes im annoyed but not mad. What im mad at is their belief that no one could ever think of this as cheap tactics...

Master Fenrir wrote:I think it's cheap. I couldn't bring myself to do that against a team I respected. It's not entirely devoid of strategy, though, so I'm not sure how pissed off I could get about it. Cheap, but clever enough to make me smile after I was done raging.

Oh im not really mad at the strategy...yes im annoyed but not mad. What im mad at is their belief that no one could ever think of this as cheap tactics...

Wouldn't it be against the spirit of the game to hit "start Turn" in that situation. Think about it, if you knew without doubt, that hitting a button would kill you, why the hell would you press it.

I don't think it is any worse tactic than killing your own team mate to get their cards. I don't think it is a cheap tactic.

its so cheap to miss a card. boohoo.

Evil Semp wrote:I don't think it is any worse tactic than killing your own team mate to get their cards. I don't think it is a cheap tactic.

Epic post is epic.

GloverParkDude wrote:its so cheap to miss a card. boohoo.

you might want to consider actually reading the first post...

ljex wrote:I was recently in a game where the other team Intentionally missed a turn so that instead of being eliminated by killer neutrals their teammate could kill them come their turn. So my question is do you think this is cheap tactics. Me and my teammates all thought it was while the other team thought it wasn't, i would like to hear the communities thoughts.

Jebus. Of course it's not cheap tactics.

- You should have considered this tactic before killing off the other guy except for one killer neutral region. Your own fault really if you didn't see it coming. Can't really expect people to suicide.

Metsfanmax wrote:

AAFitz wrote:

Timminz wrote:It would be cheap if it was something they did on purpose, and often. Somehow I doubt they're going to end up in a similar position in a game anytime soon. It remains a smart play made in a a desperate situation. Dealing with a tough spot in the best way possible.

Quite frankly, youd be crazy not to do the same yourself in a similar situation.

It might make your situation worse, but at least you'd retain your honor ;P

Many consider it a great honor to win and outsmart their opponents.

Not the losers though typically. You definitely seem very honorable.

I'm not a great judge of moral, but my opinion is that, being this a game about war, doing whatever it takes to win within the legal margin determined by the site (no account hacking, no multis, no exploiting the babysitting system etc) shouldn't be considered cheap. If the game is coded in a way it allows them to do what they did (meaning the strategy is within the realm of possibility), then that strategy is ok in my book.

AAFitz wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

AAFitz wrote:

Timminz wrote:It would be cheap if it was something they did on purpose, and often. Somehow I doubt they're going to end up in a similar position in a game anytime soon. It remains a smart play made in a a desperate situation. Dealing with a tough spot in the best way possible.

Quite frankly, youd be crazy not to do the same yourself in a similar situation.

It might make your situation worse, but at least you'd retain your honor ;P

Many consider it a great honor to win and outsmart their opponents.

Not the losers though typically. You definitely seem very honorable.

You clearly haven't seen The Last Samurai.

I think it was an excellent move, and not cheap at all. You thought you messed 'em up good, but they found a way to squirm out of it that you really didn't think of..and that's probably what hurts the most.
I would call the move, "resourceful", and i agree with others who have said you would be crazy to begin your turn if you knew it would kill you. Especially if there is some way for your team to make a move for your cards.
I recall a game when i was accused of cheap tactics. The phrase "the spirit of the game" was mentioned. The "spirit of the game" is to try to eliminate your opponents. This particular game was a nuclear spoils game. I HAD to make an attack, but i had 4 cards and i didn't want another one at that time. More than likely, if i had to turn in a set, i woulda nuked my partners bonus. Now i have run out of time before. There have been a few times i logged on at the last minute before i missed a turn..and hurriedly tried to take my turn..not being able to end my turn in time and didn't get my card. There was a battle royal one time where the win was all mine...but i messed it up by running out of time, which was bad enough, and of course didn't end my turn so i did not get my card. So..i knew of a way to make an attack and not get a card... it was the best move i could make to help my team win.
I would compare it to an NFL team backed up in it's own end zone...and not having enough room for the punter..and fearing a blocked kick for a touchdown..just taking the safety. Or perhaps taking a delay of game penalty to give the punter 5 more yards to work with if it's too close to punt..but too far for a field goal. Both of those situations are against the rules. You cant step out of the back of your end zone. It's out of bounds. But the price you pay for it is well known. You give up 2 points and you have to kick the ball to them anyway. But sometimes teams do it on purpose to try an escape an even worse scenario. A delay of game penalty is also against the rules. You have 40 seconds or so to start the next play. If you do not start the play in that amount of time, you get penalized 5 yards. But there are situations where it makes some sense for a team to do it on purpose...and there is no difference between the penalty for doing it on purpose..and any other time that it happens.

In this case, a conquer club game, if you miss a turn...you dont get to take your turn...and you don't get your armies right away. That is the penalty. This guy wasnt going to get his armies anyway. It makes perfect sense to disregard the meaningless penalty, and do the thing that was going to help the team the most.
In my nuclear game....the "penalty" wasn't a penalty at all in the situation. It was the desired outcome...so i just kinda forgot to end my turn and let the time slip by.

Like i said, the "spirit of the game" is to try to eliminate your opponent. Once the game starts..you should be trying to win..right up until you are eliminated. I have more of a problem with players who try at the beginning, and then once they see it isn't going their way, decide to start making it easier for their enemies to go ahead and finish it up. Or the guys who get mad because they obviously are crushing you but you wont just lay down for them. I think if you are not trying to win the game, then that is against the "spirit of the game".So, a big Kudos to those fellows who will not resign...but instead continue to find a way to fight for the win.