Conquer Club

Lhuth wrote:I don't think anyone with clickable maps can justifiedly object to this. If you're happy to have the advantage over people using clickies, then same rules should let people have the advantage over you using scripties.

Solution? Ban both.

I don't actually see a need for a solution there. I wholeheartedly agree with your reasoning. Of course, I agree because the same people who don't use clickies due to ignorance won't know about scripties being the evolution of them. And the people who know about clickies and refuse to use them will have similar knowledge of scripties, after all they're already posting here. So, someone may as well post scripties to userscripts and get this over with. Anti-clickies-ites, the OP warned everyone, which is more than he had to. Don't argue further, the old arguments still apply, just do some intelligent substitution.

Lhuth wrote:I don't think anyone with clickable maps can justifiedly object to this. If you're happy to have the advantage over people using clickies, then same rules should let people have the advantage over you using scripties.

Solution? Ban both.

There is a difference between using a script to help you that everyone decent at the game has (obviously not you if u dont have it) to help freestyle games. And yes some people are faster then it then otheres. But this is completely different. When does it stop??wen the computer plays for us and we dont even see the game happening because its all been done so fast--it is getting rediculas, clickies is as fast as one should go...

"sequential freestyle"

Introduce it, will you?

DAT_WAT_SHE_SAID wrote:

Lhuth wrote:I don't think anyone with clickable maps can justifiedly object to this. If you're happy to have the advantage over people using clickies, then same rules should let people have the advantage over you using scripties.

Solution? Ban both.

There is a difference between using a script to help you that everyone decent at the game has (obviously not you if u dont have it) to help freestyle games. And yes some people are faster then it then otheres. But this is completely different. When does it stop??wen the computer plays for us and we dont even see the game happening because its all been done so fast--it is getting rediculas, clickies is as fast as one should go...

But why should you be the one to choose where the limit is? Some people may think the limit is these scripts, whilst there are many others who think that clickies already past the limit!:) It's the same set of arguments just a step further onwards. With these kind of scripts/addons, someone is always going to have an advantage:/

And Pepperjack: Having thought about what you said, I think you're probably right, and that's realistically what is going to happen.

Lhuth wrote:I don't think anyone with clickable maps can justifiedly object to this. If you're happy to have the advantage over people using clickies, then same rules should let people have the advantage over you using scripties.

Solution? Ban both.

That solution has already been voiced quite a few time, even in this thread: A Common-Sense PLEA against Clickmap use. I believe the general response to that solution runs along the lines of it's a massive technical challenge to impliment a ban on click maps or scripts, assuming that it can even be done in the first place. Assuming further more that it can be done without major consequences to how this site functions. For now we'll have to make do with john9blue's suggestion and just report suspciously fast activity.

As for the OP's [game]3820741[/game], it didn't really help him now did it? When all is said and done you needn't worry about scripts or click maps so much because they're computer driven and computers excel at doing one thing, they do exactly what they're told. It's both their greatest boon and their greatest bane at the same time. A human player can consider each move as they progress through the game, a scripted player will just blindly follow it's instructions without paying any heed to the prevailing circumstances. So let them have their fun, they'll be smashing into brickwalls with abandon. Like the Highways Agency road safety advert says, Speed kills......

Lhuth wrote:

DAT_WAT_SHE_SAID wrote:

Lhuth wrote:I don't think anyone with clickable maps can justifiedly object to this. If you're happy to have the advantage over people using clickies, then same rules should let people have the advantage over you using scripties.

Solution? Ban both.

There is a difference between using a script to help you that everyone decent at the game has (obviously not you if u dont have it) to help freestyle games. And yes some people are faster then it then otheres. But this is completely different. When does it stop??wen the computer plays for us and we dont even see the game happening because its all been done so fast--it is getting rediculas, clickies is as fast as one should go...

But why should you be the one to choose where the limit is? Some people may think the limit is these scripts, whilst there are many others who think that clickies already past the limit!:) It's the same set of arguments just a step further onwards. With these kind of scripts/addons, someone is always going to have an advantage:/

And Pepperjack: Having thought about what you said, I think you're probably right, and that's realistically what is going to happen.

It is simple... No matter how fast a person is with CM, they are still physically moving. When the computer starts moving for you is when it has crossed the line.

The hypocrisy featured on this site is AMAZING! I laugh! This is excellent. Really is.

Integrate this update. Then you'll have all the top 30 people, so dependent as they are on clickmaps to farm noobs, voicing how unfair it is, after arguing that clickmaps aren't! A scoreboard revolution!

No really. If I play one person who uses this script I'm out of here. That is not skill. This site is starting to become an Arms race to get the most script-based advantages (rather than reasoning and skill) as possible. It's pathetic.

I heard that it will increase your performance in the bedroom.

King_Herpes wrote:I heard that it will increase your performance in the bedroom.

Thats why you need it, i dont

Well, you try hosting a disease for your entire life in the throne and see how it effects your love life Mr. Vigor.

Ramned wrote::twisted:

The hypocrisy featured on this site is AMAZING! I laugh! This is excellent. Really is.

Integrate this update. Then you'll have all the top 30 people, so dependent as they are on clickmaps to farm noobs, voicing how unfair it is, after arguing that clickmaps aren't! A scoreboard revolution!

No really. If I play one person who uses this script I'm out of here. That is not skill. This site is starting to become an Arms race to get the most script-based advantages (rather than reasoning and skill) as possible. It's pathetic.

If you don't play freestyle, clickable maps means pretty much nothing.

Speed freestyle is for caffeine junkies. When they aren't taking turns, they sit there twitching a lot like the kid on South Park.

Oh, for the record, I'm in the top 30...don't have clickable maps because I don't like playing freestyle.

What if you have you mapped attacked set out but some1 kills a land that u had set to kill and advances a huge army there?Another thing in unlimited forts what if some1 breaks your chain?Ofcourse this is all highly unlikely becuz u just click a button and all the moves are made in a matter of blinking?I wouldn't mind seeing any script go.While I use CM I think without it would be a different game for everyone that plays FS.Ban all scripts that have to do with game play.

If you don't play freestyle, clickable maps means pretty much nothing.

Speed freestyle is for caffeine junkies. When they aren't taking turns, they sit there twitching a lot like the kid on South Park.

Oh, for the record, I'm in the top 30...don't have clickable maps because I don't like playing freestyle.

We can say then that you are a good player, like jac99, lest you farm idiots.

I don't think this will make any difference at all. The majority of people play sequential games (4:1). The people who play freestyle already get scripts to help them, and the rest of us know that they couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag. This will just let them finish their pathetic games faster.

Ramned wrote:We can say then that you are a good player, like jac99, lest you farm idiots.

There's a big difference in farming idiots than farming noobs.

There's lots of other great players out there that aren't in the top 20, 30, or even 50 for lots of reasons, though.

I've not followed it, but it's been suggested to have multiple scoreboards - freestyle, seq, singles, teams, etc. It'd be interesting to see, for sure.

I'd say alot of players are damn good that are not even in the top 100.This is becuz the games they play.Quads are very easy to win with random partners.I carry roughly an 90% in seq quads with random partners.Alot of people confuse the games they play with the games others play.

Not having played CC in a while and coming back, I'm a bit out of date in terms of new developments in scripts (I was already shocked enough at wat happened to classic, considering I almost played classic exclusively) but heres my take on it anyway.

Once you get into the realm of gameplay enchancing scripts, there really is no cutoff point to just what is too much. I've never used scripts for CC and I enjoy taking my time and playing it the old fashioned way. Personally I don't have anything against scripts either, after all, its mostly only unfair in freestyle, which given a player with lots of time and patience, can naturally take advantage of the inherent abuses in gameplay available in that mode(whether those features should be called abuses is another question of its own). So I'd like to present this as an objective overview of scripts in general.

Gameplay enhancing scripts are an all-for or all-against kind of camp. Once you get into it, there is no cutoff point. Sure an arguement against this would be that, CM still requires the user to be there and actually do the clicking that gets the job done. But looking at the CM vs vanilla CC arguement, CM is a step up from vanilla in that it requires less clicking and allows the user to play faster than a player without CM. This is only a step up from CM in the same way: less clicking and plays much much faster than a user using CM. The user still has to be present in order to monitor the scripts activities and he/she also has to input them into the script. If your really wanted to get into the nitty gritty, if two players who both have this script and the same skill level play each other, it still boils down to a "who reacts and clicks faster" competition(the physical advantage arguement that some players love to cite). This kind of script is only a natural evolution in a long line of scripts to come. In fact, one could even argue that this kind of script balances FS in that if everyone used it, players wouldnt suffer from that one guy who can wait hours for the chance to outplay another guy, or ironically from that guy who has CM and just plays a lot faster than everyone else. Afterall, Risk was a game of strategy and planning, not about who could react quicker to flashes on a monitor and then click faster. If everyone had this script, it would just level the playing field for FS. CM users who are against this script are only naturally reacting to a new revolution in gameplay enhancing scripts.

On the otherhand, we could all agree to not use scripts, in spirit of perserving the original idea of the game. I'm more partial to this path due to the fact I don't enjoy the use of scripts much and would like it better if everyone played with the same options.

And a final note: while this kind of script is pretty easy to catch: just have the system catch users who take turns with incredible speeds, CM is much harder to catch. The only way to balance out that would be a honor code which will never work on the internet, user reporting which is unreliable and only slows the use of CM at best, or simply just incorporate it into the site. At least if it was incorporated, there could be some kind of administrative oversight such as implementing a time lag feature(if desired): ie. clicks dont register immediately after each other with a duration of perhaps say .40 seconds or so.

Lev306 wrote:And a final note: while this kind of script is pretty easy to catch: just have the system catch users who take turns with incredible speeds, CM is much harder to catch. The only way to balance out that would be a honor code which will never work on the internet, user reporting which is unreliable and only slows the use of CM at best, or simply just incorporate it into the site. At least if it was incorporated, there could be some kind of administrative oversight such as implementing a time lag feature(if desired): ie. clicks dont register immediately after each other with a duration of perhaps say .40 seconds or so.

That gives us an easy solution: just disallow two attacks in the same second. It would give the CM users a slight disadvantage, and eliminate use of this script altogether.

Although I think it's incredible what you've done, enterprise, it could really make things crazy if you decide to "unleash" this on the community. Don't be surprised if measures are taken against it.

john9blue wrote:

Lev306 wrote:And a final note: while this kind of script is pretty easy to catch: just have the system catch users who take turns with incredible speeds, CM is much harder to catch. The only way to balance out that would be a honor code which will never work on the internet, user reporting which is unreliable and only slows the use of CM at best, or simply just incorporate it into the site. At least if it was incorporated, there could be some kind of administrative oversight such as implementing a time lag feature(if desired): ie. clicks dont register immediately after each other with a duration of perhaps say .40 seconds or so.

That gives us an easy solution: just disallow two attacks in the same second. It would give the CM users a slight disadvantage, and eliminate use of this script altogether.

Although I think it's incredible what you've done, enterprise, it could really make things crazy if you decide to "unleash" this on the community. Don't be surprised if measures are taken against it.

very few player with clickables can do 2 attacks in the same second

lany, icn and scott are probably the only players that could ever do that and even then they cant do it very often

Hey!

Here's a novel Idea:

How about 2 (or more) persons play a game of f*cking risk together?

Clicks and scripts and bullshit.
If I wanted to play a machine, I'd buy the Hasbro CD version. You tech junkies are taking it to a level where the site will implode.

The whole concept of freestyle was built around injecting timing and patience into strategy.

Clickable maps created a huge disadvantage for those who choose not to use them, and this new script would be cancer. And no Bullshit about following the crowd in downloading add-ons and plug -ins please.....just play the damn game on a level playing field.

If you truly need this to win, your suplementing accumulated experience and normal skill growth for script prosthetics to help you gain points.

And if you need to be on top that bad that you need all this help then your just a cook in a generals armour.

HERES A GREAT IDEA!

Make a script that just lets you merc your opponent. Fucks his dice and gives you nothing but boxcars. You win EVERY time.

You happy now??


JR

Johnny Rockets wrote:Hey!

Here's a novel Idea:

How about 2 (or more) persons play a game of f*cking risk together?

Clicks and scripts and bullshit.
If I wanted to play a machine, I'd buy the Hasbro CD version. You tech junkies are taking it to a level where the site will implode.

The whole concept of freestyle was built around injecting timing and patience into strategy.

Clickable maps created a huge disadvantage for those who choose not to use them, and this new script would be cancer. And no Bullshit about following the crowd in downloading add-ons and plug -ins please.....just play the damn game on a level playing field.

If you truly need this to win, your suplementing accumulated experience and normal skill growth for script prosthetics to help you gain points.

And if you need to be on top that bad that you need all this help then your just a cook in a generals armour.

HERES A GREAT IDEA!

Make a script that just lets you merc your opponent. Fucks his dice and gives you nothing but boxcars. You win EVERY time.

You happy now??


JR

Agree wholeheartedly with Lev306^^^^ and Johnny Rockets.

I joined CC less than 2 weeks ago. I am curtain that the first game I played was against fair playing like minded people. I enjoyed the game so much, because I was playing against different strategists, was able to offer diplomatic proposals and had some great conversation. None of which I was getting from any computer game. I was sure then, that I would sign up for Premium Membership.

I was so impressed that I posted a link to this site on Facebook with the following caption “Give it a go. I'm hooked. With more complex strategists, a bit of diplomacy and intelligent in-game chat, it is so much more entertaining than any AI opponent.” However I now feel I may have misled any of my friends that followed the link. Also, I am putting Premium Subscription on the back burner for now.

I feel these scripts ruin the site, because those using them don’t have time to even look at the chat window. In turn, this kills off any chance of diplomacy (if it’s going to be used legally). Which is a shame, since diplomacy is the only thing that makes Risk anything more than just a –throw your dice and move your men game-. A true General would plan his strategy around any treaty he was able to coerce his opponent into signing.

If these players that are more interested in improving their stats than actually enjoying a game, feel the need to use tools to give them an edge, then surely they can’t glean any satisfaction from winning a game, only from having the quickest add-ons.

Maybe the site should be split in two. Those looking only to improve their rank in one half and the other half made up of players that enjoy pitting their wits against others.

Also, if it is the only way to achieve a level playing field, maybe BOB and CM should become standard game tools for everyone.

I fail to see how this script helps anything...

Those with it will completely slaughter those with clickies, and if it is public, then those people with clickies will get the script as well, so what you are doing is creating something that is better than clickies, so those without it will have no chance.

Congratz... the requirements for conquerclub now extend to scripts if you want to win. Clickies only help with speed, but these will help with casual and everything.

I fail to see how this helps.

ugh... too much retard in this forum.


Alright... too all those worried for it, be not afraid!!

The majority of clickies users atm are those that play speed freestyle games!
What does this mean?

that you don't need to play these if you don't want to..
if you really want to, play it with your other non-scripted friends.

yes there will be a fair bit of pwning going on for those that have the script and those that do not... but ffs, that shit already happens!! how do you deal with it?? you either avoid it or learn it!

All i see from one side of this arguement is misinformed, uneducated, inexperienced, and whiny players.
Take the time to see if this will actually effect you.
Do you play Speed Freestyle games?
Do you play Real Time Casual Freestyle games?

No? then stop whining!! please!

just like clickable maps there are still going to be players that don't know how to use it right even though they have it.

Its not a computer making a move for you, its not like a chess game.
It is about Doing what you are already planning to do, but your plan(not some computers) is executed faster.

To the above poster (post too long for a decent quote).

I got clickies 2 weeks ago. Before that, I did not play with them for 5 months. I got along fine by no freestyle at all. I only played sequential, where they did not give an advantage. I chose to do this and got along fine.

Now, I got them and am successful at freestyle, where as before I could not win a single game, even on doodle.

So why add a new level of skill-enhancers? It won't affect me because I would get them myself, but what about the people that do not go to the forums (a clear majority) and thus do not have scripts?

clickies only help in speed freestyle, and it is impossible to play it without hearing about them. this script will help in casual as well. So you take away another aspect of the site for people who do not visit the forums to win on.

bridge2far wrote:ugh... too much retard in this forum.


Alright... too all those worried for it, be not afraid!!

Retards are everywhere. So what? What does have to do with a script used to help you?

bridge2far wrote:
The majority of clickies users atm are those that play speed freestyle games!
What does this mean?

that you don't need to play these if you don't want to..
if you really want to, play it with your other non-scripted friends.

You have to be joking? Maybe this is because you did not play speed freestyle much before CM. CM has ruined the game of speed freestyle. Many of the old timers will say the same. Surely the game is 100% different now. No doubt about that. BTW When have you ever seen a private Freestyle 8 man with no clickable maps?

bridge2far wrote:yes there will be a fair bit of pwning going on for those that have the script and those that do not... but ffs, that shit already happens!! how do you deal with it?? you either avoid it or learn it!

Odd you should mention that. Before CM you could not even get over 2000 (even being here about a year) according to ConquerStats - Score Charts. So what once CM came out the light bulb went off in your head and suddenly you became this elite player? I do not think so. CM has boosted your score tons. Just like Skillerman you use speed to kill, except he did not play many 1 vs 1's.

bridge2far wrote:All i see from one side of this arguement is misinformed, uneducated, inexperienced, and whiny players.
Take the time to see if this will actually effect you.
Do you play Speed Freestyle games?
Do you play Real Time Casual Freestyle games?

No? then stop whining!! please!

I play 8 man free speed, casual free, 1 vs 1 free, etc. This will effect everybody on CC. As long as anybody who uses this script is on the scoreboard, then everybody is effected by it. If this script is released then CC will forever be changed for the worst. I think most old time players would even go with no CM. More strategy comes into play and not just speeding around a map.

bridge2far wrote:just like clickable maps there are still going to be players that don't know how to use it right even though they have it.

Well duh? Some people are idiots, but what does this have to do with the effect this script will have on CC overall? Remember this is a business, and anything that is bad for business will not last around here too long.

bridge2far wrote:Its not a computer making a move for you, its not like a chess game.
It is about Doing what you are already planning to do, but your plan(not some computers) is executed faster.

You fail to miss the point. Pre CM everybody was on a level playing field. Nobody had a speed advantage over the next player. Only advantages were experience and game knowledge. Not some script that makes you faster like steroids. It is rather pathetic was CC has turned into as far as speed freestyle games are concerned or even casual freestyle for that matter. The way I see it is you might as well be throwing darts on a map and running to them. First man there wins! (<--- Lame) And yes I do currently use CM, only because I play freestyle speed. I happen to like it for the ease of use with my casual SEQ games.