Conquer Club

StiffMittens wrote:

TheProwler wrote:There is about a 99% chance that the guy was telling the truth about the dog. I'm pretty sure it is quite rare that those dogs make mistakes

Not as rare as you might think:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/05/60minutes/main591477.shtml
http://www.k9fleck.org/reltrn.htm

The dog must be trained, certified and reliable. The dog does not have to be 100% accurate or perfect. The courts have recognized the fact that “false responses”, “false positives” or “false alerts” occur and dogs can be as low as 54% accurate.

Not to get too far off track, because I'm pretty sure in this case the dog did not even alert them to drugs or "dead people", but think about it.

Falco's usage reports showed that in controlled tests he could be highly accurate -- correctly alerting more than 90 percent of the time. But in real life situations the results were starkly different.

“The court found that Falco was 35.5 percent accurate,” says Gaines. And a judge ruled that such a low success rate didn't give the police probable cause to make the search.

Okay, so couldn't the slip from 90% to 35.5% be explained by the situation we are seeing in this thread? The cops says he gave a positive, when he didn't. The cop does this to justify a search. Hence, the dog's accuracy rating slips.

jay_a2j wrote:

TheProwler wrote:
My heart is filled with hate when I see that kind of stuff. How can good cops allow this to happen?

Speaking from firsthand knowledge, they have a "code", you NEVER go against a fellow officer.

Haha, obviously this is a problem.

TheProwler wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

TheProwler wrote:
My heart is filled with hate when I see that kind of stuff. How can good cops allow this to happen?

Speaking from firsthand knowledge, they have a "code", you NEVER go against a fellow officer.

Haha, obviously this is a problem.

No kidding, and is why I could be unemployed at any moment.

TheProwler wrote:

StiffMittens wrote:

TheProwler wrote:There is about a 99% chance that the guy was telling the truth about the dog. I'm pretty sure it is quite rare that those dogs make mistakes

Not as rare as you might think:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/05/60minutes/main591477.shtml
http://www.k9fleck.org/reltrn.htm

The dog must be trained, certified and reliable. The dog does not have to be 100% accurate or perfect. The courts have recognized the fact that “false responses”, “false positives” or “false alerts” occur and dogs can be as low as 54% accurate.

Not to get too far off track, because I'm pretty sure in this case the dog did not even alert them to drugs or "dead people", but think about it.

Falco's usage reports showed that in controlled tests he could be highly accurate -- correctly alerting more than 90 percent of the time. But in real life situations the results were starkly different.

“The court found that Falco was 35.5 percent accurate,” says Gaines. And a judge ruled that such a low success rate didn't give the police probable cause to make the search.

Okay, so couldn't the slip from 90% to 35.5% be explained by the situation we are seeing in this thread? The cops says he gave a positive, when he didn't. The cop does this to justify a search. Hence, the dog's accuracy rating slips.

Possibly. Who is lying the cop or the dog? In either case, how do you prove that? (The defense calls Dr. Doolittle to the stand?)

StiffMittens wrote:Possibly. Who is lying the cop or the dog? In either case, how do you prove that? (The defense calls Dr. Doolittle to the stand?)

And that is what the cops are using...they are using dogs and saying the dog is showing a positive when they aren't so they can use that as "probable cause".

Can I prove it? Do I really have to? It is obvious that cops will stoop a lot lower than that to apply their own brand of justice.

TheProwler wrote:

StiffMittens wrote:Possibly. Who is lying the cop or the dog? In either case, how do you prove that? (The defense calls Dr. Doolittle to the stand?)

And that is what the cops are using...they are using dogs and saying the dog is showing a positive when they aren't so they can use that as "probable cause".

Can I prove it? Do I really have to? It is obvious that cops will stoop a lot lower than that to apply their own brand of justice.

This is coming from higher up. These people are being conditioned to instill fear and oppress people. Barrak Hitler will soon show his true colors...

captain.crazy wrote:Barrak Hitler will soon show his true colors...

Since I am asleep in life, I find your delusions hilarious. How many other presidents have you said this about?

TheProwler wrote:It is obvious that cops will stoop a lot lower than that to apply their own brand of justice.

An everyday occurance.

Timminz wrote:

captain.crazy wrote:Barrak Hitler will soon show his true colors...

Since I am asleep in life, I find your delusions hilarious. How many other presidents have you said this about?

Only Bush... Stop and think about the similarities... Hitler came in and sought to punish the rich Jews, promising such nationalist ideas as nationalizing banks and industry... starting to sound familiar? Remember too that Bush was put in place by the ultra rich elite to pave the way for Barak. He may be the end game player for global tyranny, or he may only be serving to take up the torch, and pave further the way for the antichrist. Wake up fool!

Don't tase me, bro!

Fucking pigs.

Timminz wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

thegreekdog wrote: If I was barred in whatever state he was in (Nevada, I think), I would take his case in a quick second for 33%.

Greedy lawyers.....

Yeah, let's see. With a lawyer, he would get 67%. How much do you think he'd get without one?

Zero percent.

Hatred of lawyers - another byproduct of our culture. Sigh...

I got fined by some pigs on the weekend for jay-walking... JAY-WALKING, for fucks sakes!

I couldn't really believe it, but luckily my only ID i have is for back in Adelaide (in another state) and I haven't lived there for nearly 3 years.. so i don't see it coming back to me...

But still.. goddamm pigs...

I would just like to point out something. People are b*stards not cops specifically. Yeah sure there are some b*stard cops but it's not because they are cops it's because they are people. I don't think I am putting my point well so let me use an example.

Cop 1. A non-cop beat and tazed someone who he didn't like for no apparent reason. Non cops are b*stards don't you agree?
Cop 2. Hell yeah, just the other day a non-cop abused and assualted a cop just cause they were a cop, f*cking non-cops.

You just don't like authority, face it whether it's your boss, wicked, twill (notice the opposites), the police or the government etc. Anyone who tells you what to do, so if you ever find you self in a position of power then don't complain when everyone hates you for just doing your job.

Yet again I would like to reiterate some of these bosses/policeman etc. deserve the hate, but that doesn't mean all of them do.

Oh and i realise some of you are being sarcastic etc. but i don't care.

pmchugh wrote:I would just like to point out something. People are b*stards not cops specifically. Yeah sure there are some b*stard cops but it's not because they are cops it's because they are people. I don't think I am putting my point well so let me use an example.

Cop 1. A non-cop beat and tazed someone who he didn't like for no apparent reason. Non cops are b*stards don't you agree?
Cop 2. Hell yeah, just the other day a non-cop abused and assualted a cop just cause they were a cop, f*cking non-cops.

You just don't like authority, face it whether it's your boss, wicked, twill (notice the opposites), the police or the government etc. Anyone who tells you what to do, so if you ever find you self in a position of power then don't complain when everyone hates you for just doing your job.

Yet again I would like to reiterate some of these bosses/policeman etc. deserve the hate, but that doesn't mean all of them do.

Oh and i realise some of you are being sarcastic etc. but i don't care.

I see what you're saying, and you are of course essentially right.

But I do think that people who want to be cops often have a superiority complex.

Pretty much what I was going to say. People who actively seek power often believe themselves to be superior to the people they want to lead. Occasionally you will get someone "selfless" who does it for "the greater good", but once they get that power that they've been craving so much, most start to become selfish.

InkL0sed wrote:But I do think that people who want to be cops often have a superiority complex.

While I am not sure the right term is "superiority complex", I am sure that there are certain traits that cause certain types of people to want to be cops.

To me, it seems to be a sort of need to control people. I think a higher than average percentage of cops are sadistic. They want to be able to inflict pain to others without fear of criminal prosecution.

In the video shown in the first post, not one of those cops or border patrol guys said to the guy "Look man, this isn't going to end well for you if you keep disobeying our orders. Maybe we are right, and maybe we are wrong - but when someone tries to show us up, we have to follow through or we'll lose the respect of civilians. You refuse and get away with it, and the next guy with 10 pounds of cocaine will try the same thing. I don't think you have anything in your car. Just get out and let us look in the car and I promise that you'll be gone in a few minutes." Or whatever they had to say. I know it isn't the same thing, but as a hockey referee I've dealt with some guys who have been really pumped up and seemingly out of control; I've found that when I talk to them calmly and look them in the eyes - not to intimidate them, but to gain a human connection - I can get them to settle down and comply to my directions, even when it isn't good news for them.

I'm not saying this would have worked with this person, as he was taking a stand for his legal rights. But I am saying that nobody seemed to want to make a connection with him in a more human-to-human way. Nobody seemed to want to try. Nobody showed any empathy towards him.

Of the people I know that became cops, I can say that they are below average intelligence. They would be good candidates for a reporting officer to manipulate into doing unethical things in the name of justice. They are too stupid to really understand right and wrong.

The chain of command and the idea of not questioning certain orders (just follow directions, you don't need to know why) do present the possibility that police forces are being controlled by higher powers with hidden agendas, like Capt. Crazy suggests.

TheProwler wrote:

InkL0sed wrote:But I do think that people who want to be cops often have a superiority complex.

While I am not sure the right term is "superiority complex", I am sure that there are certain traits that cause certain types of people to want to be cops.

To me, it seems to be a sort of need to control people. I think a higher than average percentage of cops are sadistic. They want to be able to inflict pain to others without fear of criminal prosecution.

In the video shown in the first post, not one of those cops or border patrol guys said to the guy "Look man, this isn't going to end well for you if you keep disobeying our orders. Maybe we are right, and maybe we are wrong - but when someone tries to show us up, we have to follow through or we'll lose the respect of civilians. You refuse and get away with it, and the next guy with 10 pounds of cocaine will try the same thing. I don't think you have anything in your car. Just get out and let us look in the car and I promise that you'll be gone in a few minutes." Or whatever they had to say. I know it isn't the same thing, but as a hockey referee I've dealt with some guys who have been really pumped up and seemingly out of control; I've found that when I talk to them calmly and look them in the eyes - not to intimidate them, but to gain a human connection - I can get them to settle down and comply to my directions, even when it isn't good news for them.

I'm not saying this would have worked with this person, as he was taking a stand for his legal rights. But I am saying that nobody seemed to want to make a connection with him in a more human-to-human way. Nobody seemed to want to try. Nobody showed any empathy towards him.

Of the people I know that became cops, I can say that they are below average intelligence. They would be good candidates for a reporting officer to manipulate into doing unethical things in the name of justice. They are too stupid to really understand right and wrong.

The chain of command and the idea of not questioning certain orders (just follow directions, you don't need to know why) do present the possibility that police forces are being controlled by higher powers with hidden agendas, like Capt. Crazy suggests.

To be fair, I think that the pastor was in the car for something like 20 minutes prior to the starting of his video tape. Something along the lines of what you suggest could have been said then, but I doubt it. The pastor WAS trying to make a point... search and seizure are illegal practices if done without a warrant or probable cause. If cops can simply say that they have probable cause, then they have circumvented the constitution and are really free to oppress people as they see fit.

pmchugh wrote:I would just like to point out something. People are b*stards not cops specifically. Yeah sure there are some b*stard cops but it's not because they are cops it's because they are people. I don't think I am putting my point well so let me use an example...

you are exactly right, cops are just people, yet we give them these powers that allow them to pick and choose who they want to fine, arrest, beat, abuse or throw in jail? That is my exact problem with pigs, they are humans (who are prone to mistakes) but yet are given these powers that noone else will get close to having. And naturally, the people who find these powers appealling are exactly the types of people who we DON'T want as cops.

Seriously, Jay-walking... you'd have to be a cunt to give someone a ticket for that, seriously

radiojake wrote:

pmchugh wrote:I would just like to point out something. People are b*stards not cops specifically. Yeah sure there are some b*stard cops but it's not because they are cops it's because they are people. I don't think I am putting my point well so let me use an example...

you are exactly right, cops are just people, yet we give them these powers that allow them to pick and choose who they want to fine, arrest, beat, abuse or throw in jail? That is my exact problem with pigs, they are humans (who are prone to mistakes) but yet are given these powers that noone else will get close to having. And naturally, the people who find these powers appealling are exactly the types of people who we DON'T want as cops.

Seriously, Jay-walking... you'd have to be a cunt to give someone a ticket for that, seriously

You are starting to get it then... This is why the Constitution prohibits the kind of behavior displayed by these cops. Realize that the checkpoint is illegal and you understand that they ought not have been there in the first place.

pmchugh wrote:I would just like to point out something. People are b*stards not cops specifically. Yeah sure there are some b*stard cops but it's not because they are cops it's because they are people. I don't think I am putting my point well so let me use an example.

Cop 1. A non-cop beat and tazed someone who he didn't like for no apparent reason. Non cops are b*stards don't you agree?
Cop 2. Hell yeah, just the other day a non-cop abused and assualted a cop just cause they were a cop, f*cking non-cops.

You just don't like authority, face it whether it's your boss, wicked, twill (notice the opposites), the police or the government etc. Anyone who tells you what to do, so if you ever find you self in a position of power then don't complain when everyone hates you for just doing your job.

Yet again I would like to reiterate some of these bosses/policeman etc. deserve the hate, but that doesn't mean all of them do.

Oh and i realise some of you are being sarcastic etc. but i don't care.

Working in law enforcement for almost 10 years, I have seen or heard things that would really make the average person question law enforcement. I distance myself from those that abuse their badges. But far too many do. Some people get a badge and then think that they are above the law. It's not about "not liking authority", it's about seeing the abuse of power almost on a daily basis. Some people should never be in a position of power.

jay_a2j wrote:

pmchugh wrote:I would just like to point out something. People are b*stards not cops specifically. Yeah sure there are some b*stard cops but it's not because they are cops it's because they are people. I don't think I am putting my point well so let me use an example.

Cop 1. A non-cop beat and tazed someone who he didn't like for no apparent reason. Non cops are b*stards don't you agree?
Cop 2. Hell yeah, just the other day a non-cop abused and assualted a cop just cause they were a cop, f*cking non-cops.

You just don't like authority, face it whether it's your boss, wicked, twill (notice the opposites), the police or the government etc. Anyone who tells you what to do, so if you ever find you self in a position of power then don't complain when everyone hates you for just doing your job.

Yet again I would like to reiterate some of these bosses/policeman etc. deserve the hate, but that doesn't mean all of them do.

Oh and i realise some of you are being sarcastic etc. but i don't care.

Working in law enforcement for almost 10 years, I have seen or heard things that would really make the average person question law enforcement. I distance myself from those that abuse their badges. But far too many do. Some people get a badge and then think that they are above the law. It's not about "not liking authority", it's about seeing the abuse of power almost on a daily basis. Some people should never be in a position of power.

But don't you think that the fact that there is a checkpoint on the road between 2 states is illegal in the first place, and that it suggests that it isn't just a bad individual that is in violation, but the system as a whole?

TheProwler wrote:Of the people I know that became cops, I can say that they are below average intelligence. They would be good candidates for a reporting officer to manipulate into doing unethical things in the name of justice. They are too stupid to really understand right and wrong.

I think that also has to do with who would simply make a good candidate for a cop. I mean, all the really smart kids want to go into science or computers or something along those lines. Where as a cop, who needs to be in good shape and physically fit and whatnot, well, that's more of your jock category. Football teams and wrestling and whatnot. And they aren't exactly renowned for they're intelligence. So you're taking somebody known for being a stupid bully, and putting him in a position of power. Probably the only thing that separates a cop from a common criminal is economic standing when they were in school.

Soldiers in the "War on Drugs". The government have been in an active war on a segment of the US population since Ronnie and Nancy and "Just Say No". I commend that guy, very brave.

HungrySomali wrote:Soldiers in the "War on Drugs". The government have been in an active war on a segment of the US population since Ronnie and Nancy and "Just Say No". I commend that guy, very brave.

Yes! The war on drugs has been a raging success! after all, when agents of our own government profit so readily from that which they are supposed to prevent, we all win!

Face it, prohibition doesn't work, it only creates a strong black market which empowers criminals. our politicians are in the pockets of so many, it blows my mind.