Conquer Club

gregwolf121 wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:Not what the fundie mormons claimed. Mormonism is shit-crazy with the whole Jesus went to America, he was actually white and not a hewbrew with a lightish brown skin and the whole "your skin is black because you're a sinner, repent and you'll get white like us".

As to the polygamy, there is still very real forced marriage happening in those communities. Hell, there is a growing problem of young males basically getting kicked out of the community because the elders want to marry all the girls.

umm i am a mormon, and your probably geting your facts confused. yes jesus went to america, yes he was a jew, and as for the black skin that is something you can find out about if you read the bible, it is in their, and no he didn't say for blacks to repent and get white like us, they have black skin for a reason

And [God] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God; I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities." (2 Nephi 5:21,

Quite an interesting reason, yes.

Throughout the Book of Mormon narrative, several groups of Lamanites did repent and lose the curse. The Anti-Nephi-Lehies or Ammonites "open[ed] a correspondence with them [Nephites], and the curse of God did no more follow them" (Alma 23:18). There is no reference to their skin color being changed. Later, the Book of Mormon records that an additional group of Lamanites converted and that "their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites… and they were numbered among the Nephites, and were called Nephites" (3 Nephi 2:15-16).

yeeeep, that's the stuff. No mention of repenting and getting white anywhere.

and as for forced polygamist marriages, i repeat the mormon church does not practice polygamy other offshoots or cults do, i believe there is one down in texas. ill say it one last time the mormon church is against polygamy, because we believe in obeying the law of the land, meaning that we follow the countries laws, so since polygamy is against the law we don't practice it.

Yeah that's all very well but there are still teh Mormon Fundies who really do practice it.

Sure the big church decided to abandon it (who wouldn't after getting the shit invaded out of you?) but the book still claims it's okay and the fact is that you still believe in it. You don't do it anymore, but you still think it's okay and right.

bedub1 wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

bedub1 wrote:

pimpdave wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:As to the polygamy, there is still very real forced marriage happening in those communities. Hell, there is a growing problem of young males basically getting kicked out of the community because the elders want to marry all the girls.

Back in the 1800s, they just drummed up kangaroo courts for those men and had them executed.

Yeah, and back in 1770's Thomas Jefferson had slaves. Whats your point?

That we should go back to those times?

Did you just say you want to go back to the times of kangaroo courts and slavery?

Sure do. Seems like a fun and exciting time to live in.

pimpdave wrote:http://www.exmormon.org/violence.htm

That's the first thing that came up with a simple search. I might be able to find some articles from newspapers from the 1800s later, I remember seeing such articles when in college. They were pretty reviled by the rest of civilized America for a damn good reason. They were violent and evil, and really weird. Kind of like the Manson family of the 1800s, a dangerous cult.

so your telling me you started sprouting lies then went to find "proof" that what you say is correct.
and did you even look at the site you provided, the first part is about splinter groups, people who broke off from the church and are no longer memebers,
and joseph smith was only married to emma smith, i believe that polygamy in the church started in the 1850s, after joseph smiths death, and it ended 50 years later when the us government outlawed it. and your saying they are violent evil and weird becuase you think that is what you were told you have no facts, were not a cult were the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, and i looked further into the site and quite a lot of its "facts" about the church are false and made up. like that joseph smith had seven wives, he had one. and it says church sanctioned plural marriages continued into the 1930s also false, it ended 1890s when the us government said polygamy was illegal

no i don't think its okay or right it is no longer accepted, and as for fundamentalists how many of them are still part of the church.

pimpdave wrote:Here's a great book about the subject. Granted, it focuses on a couple brothers, but provides the context out of which such monsters are borne: the Mormon church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven

not about the church about a splinter group and two of its members

gregwolf121 wrote:

pimpdave wrote:Here's a great book about the subject. Granted, it focuses on a couple brothers, but provides the context out of which such monsters are borne: the Mormon church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven

not about the church about a splinter group and two of its members

Actually, it's quite a bit about the church, since it examines how the doctrine of the church and the splinter group are so similar.

Look, under Federal law, we have to allow you to exist as a religion at this point (sigh), but that doesn't change the fact that the Mormon Church is really just the result of a Manson Family type cult. And the Manson Family almost certainly would have managed to spread enough of it's cancer to force legitimacy had we not stamped it out (phew).

Ok so as a religion does the Mormon church believe in resurrection of people other than Jesus?

http://www.truthandgrace.com/mormonmassacre2.htm

worth a look.

gregwolf121 wrote:and joseph smith was only married to emma smith, i believe that polygamy in the church started in the 1850s, after joseph smiths death, and it ended 50 years later when the us government outlawed it.

For someone who claims to be a mormon you sure are ignorant of it's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement
Joseph Smith was the one who came up with it. And yes the government outlawed it, but the real reason he stopped was because the government forced him to.

Snorri1234 wrote:the real reason he stopped was because he was killed for destroying a printing press that printed a negative editorial about his practice of kidnap and rape.

fixed.

pimpdave wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:the real reason he stopped was because he was killed for destroying a printing press that printed a negative editorial about his practice of kidnap and rape.

fixed.

Okay true, I meant more that the church stopped doing it because the gov invaded utah.

it says on there that most of the information is false, and its taking about fundamental mormons, not the lds church, there two different religions

apey wrote:Ok so as a religion does the Mormon church believe in resurrection of people other than Jesus?

we believe that everyone will be resurrected someday

Snorri1234 wrote:For someone who claims to be a mormon you sure are ignorant of it's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement
Joseph Smith was the one who came up with it. And yes the government outlawed it, but the real reason he stopped was because the government forced him to.

im not claiming to be a mormon im saying im a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, joseph smith may have gotten revalation about it but he only had one wife it started with brigham young after joseph smith died, and yes they did stop because the government outlawed it.

pimpdave wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:the real reason he stopped was because he was killed for destroying a printing press that printed a negative editorial about his practice of kidnap and rape.

fixed.

i actually don't know any facts about this but i beleive the printing press was destroyed and the government used it as an excuse to arrest joseph smith and he was killed because he was the leader of the church and people believed that if he died so would the church. and as some food for thought, joseph smith knew that he wasn't going to survive carthage jail but he still willingly went to jail, no one made him go no one from the government escorted him to the jail.

ok so do you Mormons believe in reincarnation ?

apey wrote:ok so do you Mormons believe in reincarnation ?

no we don't

gregwolf121 wrote:i actually don't know any facts about this but i beleive the printing press was destroyed and the government used it as an excuse to arrest joseph smith and he was killed because he was the leader of the church and people believed that if he died so would the church. and as some food for thought, joseph smith knew that he wasn't going to survive carthage jail but he still willingly went to jail, no one made him go no one from the government escorted him to the jail.

Well, for not knowing any facts, you certainly do present a common story that Mormons provide about it.

The "government" didn't want to kill Smith, they knew full well that Smith's fellow kidnapping/rapist leaders of the Mormon church would spin it to make him out to be a martyr. That's why the government was upset with the lynch mob that executed him. That's why lynch mobs are illegal in the USA. That's part of why Manson was never executed, and it's why L. Ron Hubbard would have been kept in jail until his death from natural causes had he ever been apprehended.

The lynch mob, like Oedipus, guaranteed what they wanted to avoid by killing Smith. Granted, they probably saved a number of innocent girls from a life of torture, rape, and enslavement, just in taking out the evil, violent con artist Joseph Smith, but they guaranteed future generations would carry on such a despicable cult in the process. Truly a tragedy in American history all around and a case study in how freedom of religion can be used to commit unspeakable evil, and why "religion" must not be paramount to civil society.

apey wrote:ok so do you Mormons believe in reincarnation ?

Then tell us again how it is that black ppl are black

apey wrote:

apey wrote:ok so do you Mormons believe in reincarnation ?

Then tell us again how it is that black ppl are black

Yeah, he glossed over that one.

apey wrote:

apey wrote:ok so do you Mormons believe in reincarnation ?

Then tell us again how it is that black ppl are black

what?

EDIT: What does the color of somebody's skin have to do with reincarnation?

Something about sinning being correlated with darkness of skin. "So how are black babies black?" is probably the gist of the question.

Neoteny wrote:Something about sinning being correlated with darkness of skin. "So how are black babies black?" is probably the gist of the question.

The more you sin the darker your skin gets? That's hilarious.

bedub1 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:Something about sinning being correlated with darkness of skin. "So how are black babies black?" is probably the gist of the question.

The more you sin the darker your skin gets? That's hilarious.

That's the word on the street.

that is what i remember about it not sure if its even a true story or event.
once again tell me who has told you the lies about kidnapping and rapist or are you just saying that so that your other lies seem valid
yeah the gov't was upset at the lynch mob thats why the gov't tryied so hard to find out who did it. and yes joseph smith was a matyr not because the church leaders said so but because god said so, joseph smith was sent to the jail to die to seal his testimony with his blood that the church is true that god lives that we can all live with him again one day.

pimpdave wrote:The lynch mob, like Oedipus, guaranteed what they wanted to avoid by killing Smith. Granted, they probably saved a number of innocent girls from a life of torture, rape, and enslavement, just in taking out the evil, violent con artist Joseph Smith, but they guaranteed future generations would carry on such a despicable cult in the process. Truly a tragedy in American history all around.

you know there were four men in that room joseph smith and hyrum smith were killed because their testimony needed to be sealed with blood, john taylor was shot in the leg and chest, luckily his pocket watch miraculosly stoped the bullet saving him from death willard richards was not shot, fulfillng a prophecy about him which said though a hail of bullets shall fly around thee not one hole in your garmets will be made.
or something like that, he wasn't shot and his clothes were whole a miracle
and once more tell me where you get your lies about this torturing raping kidnapping enslaving of anybody by the church. so far you have provided,even false evidence to sport this lie

okay its not the more you sin the darker your skin gets
black skin came when the lord cursed cain for killing his brother abel, cain and all of his posterity, for so many generations, i don't remember the exact amount, would be cursed, they were given black skin so that people would know of their punishment. the cursing was not being able to have the gift of the priesthood, gods power on earth, in the early days of the church people with black skin could be members but they couldn't hold the priesthood. this is no longer true president spencer w kimball received revalation that the priesthood could be given to any worthy male member. i personnally know several members who have a darker skin color, great individuals
now if someone has black skin it is because of genetics

gregwolf121 wrote:okay its not the more you sin the darker your skin gets
black skin came when the lord cursed cain for killing his brother abel, cain and all of his posterity, for so many generations, i don't remember the exact amount, would be cursed, they were given black skin so that people would know of their punishment. the cursing was not being able to have the gift of the priesthood, gods power on earth, in the early days of the church people with black skin could be members but they couldn't hold the priesthood. this is no longer true president spencer w kimball received revalation that the priesthood could be given to any worthy male member. i personnally know several members who have a darker skin color, great individuals
now if someone has black skin it is because of genetics

wow.

I love how you guys just make up new shit to cover for the racist doctrine. I've always thought that's why you were all brainwashed under threat of corporal punishment to always be saccharine nice, to try and put a happy face on the pernicious past.

its not made up read the bible it tells of the cursing of cain. and were racists too now, considering the church accepted black members even when slavery was still legal we accept everyone of every race, color, ethenicity and gender, but were racist, that makes perfect sense

gregwolf121 wrote:its not made up read the bible it tells of the cursing of cain. and were racists too now, considering the church accepted black members even when slavery was still legal we accept everyone of every race, color, ethenicity and gender, but were racist, that makes perfect sense

... Which Bible is this again?

...