Conquer Club

i have 2 say that the dice have been very unfair latey!! but thats jus my opinion and every1 is always gonna say that!!

Dice aren't unfair, stop whining. They go both ways. I just lost a 20v5 but earlier today I won a 4v6 without losing anyone!

dominationnation wrote:First off-Random.org doesnt use a pregenerated number sequence. If you go to the site -link- it will explain to you how the numbers come up.

Second, the dice here are made to be random. If you cheat when you roll real dice, well then none of us really care. This isnt risk. Its CC. You cant cheat. Live with it.

Third, you will lose the majority of 3 on 1. I dont feel like calculating the exact math but since defenders win ties the odds are against you. And even if the dice are making fun of you it doesnt really matter. It makes no difference if you lose 1,1,1 to 6,6 or 1,1,1 to 1,1. You still lose 2 armies.

Fourth-If you advanced every time you attacked with the greated army, that would take the fun out of the game. People would be able to develop full proof strategies that would never fail. THAT, would take the fun out of the game. Its called RISK for a reason. You are supposed to take RISKS.

Finnally-even if the dice are loaded, they are loaded for everyone. Its equally against you as it is for your opponet. Why would Lack cheat you? What does he gain by making your dice suck?

I totally agree w/ this

I go back and forth on this. I had someone attack me and they lost 14 armies to my 4. I have attacked 6 on 1 before and lost 5. I honestly see no pattern. I win some, I lose some. Sure it is frustrating to lose and have to revise your strategy, or lose an entire game because of rolls. But I don't see a group of people benefiting from it. If you can show certain users are always (or a high percentage) of it going their way, then I would be inclined to believe it.

Is it me or is it normal to lose a 16 vs.4

are you suggesting that we make the dice out of cheese?

and yes, it is normal.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE DICE? I ATTACKED A 2 WITH A 13 AND LOST THEM ALL WITH THE 2 STILL BEING A 2 GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!

Horribly bad luck happens. The dice are random, evenly random. Join the millions-long line of people complaining about "the dice screwed me."

There aren't male and female dice, let alone dice attracted to the same sex.

I don't know what you are talking about, I just won 6v21 and only lost 2!!

Feel free to flame about the Dice in the Flame Wars forum.


--Andy

The offensive rolls seem to be in favor of the defender. I have seen a signfigant drop in offensive roll wins since the last patch.

I've seen a huge increase, you have a dictionary by any chance? try the word random...

There's an add-on that does this. The dice analyzer.

Concise description:

• The addition of optional alternative method(s) of randomizing battle results

Specifics:

• Specific mechanics to be discussed by the community as I am not that great with probability math.
• The general suggestion is to help moderate the dice so that 3+ to 1 losses don't happen any longer.
• Possible methods may include alternative dice (4 sided, 8 sided, etc), alternative numbers of dice being rolled, or the implementation of a random results table of some sort.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• No more stupidly huge and unexpected losses for attacker or defender due to dice
• Takes away a large part of the luck factor involved, but still allows some reasonable amount to remain
• Makes for a much more strategic game of Risk with some degree of predictability

Anybody around here good enough with probability math to perhaps offer some suggestions?

Shino Tenshi wrote:Concise description:

• The addition of optional alternative method(s) of randomizing battle results

Specifics:

• Specific mechanics to be discussed by the community as I am not that great with probability math.
• The general suggestion is to help moderate the dice so that 3+ to 1 losses don't happen any longer.
• Possible methods may include alternative dice (4 sided, 8 sided, etc), alternative numbers of dice being rolled, or the implementation of a random results table of some sort.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• No more stupidly huge and unexpected losses for attacker or defender due to dice
• Takes away a large part of the luck factor involved, but still allows some reasonable amount to remain
• Makes for a much more strategic game of Risk with some degree of predictability

Anybody around here good enough with probability math to perhaps offer some suggestions?

The Dice are random. They have always been random, and will always be random. For you, the dice may seem unfair, but when you take into account the millions of rolls that occur everyday, then the graph shows randomness.
Predictability will not help the game, it will hinder it. Besides, what do you mean by predictable? The attacker always wins? Or the defender only loses 2 men at a time? Or will it be "Whenever I roll, I expect to win, be I defender or attacker"?

The Dice are random. They have always been random, and will always be random. For you, the dice may seem unfair, but when you take into account the millions of rolls that occur everyday, then the graph shows randomness.
Predictability will not help the game, it will hinder it. Besides, what do you mean by predictable? The attacker always wins? Or the defender only loses 2 men at a time? Or will it be "Whenever I roll, I expect to win, be I defender or attacker"?[/quote]

I'm not necessarily suggesting removing dice and definitely not suggesting removing the randomness from the game. I think these are an integral part of the game. What I /am/ suggesting is doing something to increase the odds that more average rolls will happen and decrease the odds of the dice going seriously haywire and delivering results like 13 to 1 losses, such as just happened to me a few minutes ago.

The dice have gone both ways plenty of times for me and if I look at the dice analyzer I have going, the averages work out within 1%. It would just be nice to see an option (and only an option, I'm not suggesting replacing the existing system) added that would allow for better odds of more even rolls, preferably while maintaining the slight attackers advantage.

I unfortunately don't know how probability math works, so I can't come up with a specific suggestion myself. Perhaps something like rolling up to 6 attacker dice and 4 or 5 defender dice would work? For all I know 6/4 would produce the same results. Perhaps increasing or decreasing the sides of the dice that are involved would work as well? Such as rolling 4-sided dice instead of 6-sided?

Risk is and remains one of the most popular games of all time. The dice
are an INTENTIONAL part of this. Make it 8-sided or any other will not eliminate streaks. Streaks happen because dice are random. All you will do is change the game to something other than Risk.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Risk is and remains one of the most popular games of all time. The dice
are an INTENTIONAL part of this. Make it 8-sided or any other will not eliminate streaks. Streaks happen because dice are random. All you will do is change the game to something other than Risk.

My intention is not necessarily to eliminate streaks, simply minimize them. One thought I had would be to roll 2 six-sided dice per die normally rolled, total them together, and average them out. The result should be, if I'm thinking it out correctly anyway, that the attacker's advantage would still remain, however it would produce more average results. This would still produce streaks, but they would be less common. To roll a 1 or a 6, you would have a 1 in 36 or 1 in 12 chance (depending on how you rounded) instead of a 1 in 6 chance. You would also be much more likely to roll a 3 or a 4. You may need to do something like round up for attacker and round down for defender to maintain the attacker's advantage. As I said, I'm not that great with probability math, so I'm not sure.

One other point to consider is that Conquer Club is NOT Risk. It has many of the same aspects that Risk does, but it is something far more than Risk.

I'm not suggesting changing the dice over to a different system for every game. All I'm suggesting is that an option be added. I would find it hard to believe that I'm the only one on the site that would appreciate a more strategic and less luck based game.

Hi there,

The dice sucks in this game. Get a better way to roll the dice.

A frustated user!!!

Go roll your own dice.

Factual information about the CC dice:

1. The dice are 100% non-random.

2. They are also 100% unpredictable, and these are two completely separate and distinct concepts.

3. If your brain lacks the necessary intelligence to comprehend that these are two wholly distinct concepts, then I truly pity you.

Details:

If you notice a pattern (or imagine that you notice one), then instead of complaining about the dice and suggesting a change, wouldn't the intelligent course of action be to take advantage of the pattern you see and others don't? That would give you an advantage over your opponents (if you're right about the pattern, that is).

For example, suppose, for the sake of argument, as a player claimed in this thread, that territories with 2 or fewer armies withstand attack better than other territories. I have NOT noticed this pattern myself, and I'm sure most other players have NOT also. In this case, if you take this "chance" into account and favor other territories to attack, then you would, in theory, win a greater percentage of games. I mention this specific pattern because I think that it is a figment of the above-mentioned player's imagination, but it serves its purpose as an example.

If you find a pattern that is predictable, then keep quiet about it and use it to your advantage. If not, then accept the unpredictability of the dice as being fair to everyone.

All faith in "chance," "randomness," and "luck" is very unscientific and unintelligent, and doesn't apply to the reality of the dice. Your faith in these concepts is 100% whimsical and sentimental, and is not backed by any scientific evidence. The patterns that the dice manifest are produced scientifically, not by superstitious, mythological beliefs like "luck."

If you do your research on the CC dice intelligently, as I have, then you will find that from the first step to the last, the patterns that they manifest are strictly controlled and designed at every point along the way. There is no single step in the process that produces the dice patterns that includes any miniscule element of "randomness" at all -- absolutely ZERO. All the processes that the patterns undergo are 100% by design, without as much as a single exception, right down the line, from beginning to end.

Design, by definition, is 100% non-random.

The fact that they are designed does not mean that the patterns are predictable; in fact they are not predictable, but they are certainly not random -- they are absolutely not random in the least bit -- they are unpredictable BY DESIGN, not by "randomness."

If you talk out your ass without doing the necessary research first, as most people who post in the CC forum seem to behave, then your lack of intelligence speaks for itself.

We are not cavemen. Such foolish concepts as "luck," "chance," and "randomness" are outdated myths, and none of them exist outside your overly fertile imagination.

Develop the intelligence to comprehend these facts, and behave accordingly.

Random created humans, random does exist. Chance does exist, but that's because we always take chances in life, you take a chance by acting like an idiot by complaining about dice, your going on my ignore list.

I wasn't complaining about the dice. I was setting straight the morons who have unscientific faith, without evidence, that the mythological concepts of luck and chance and randomness somehow exist outside of your imagination, and who act on their supreme lack of intelligence in this regard in complaining about the dice.

Also, there is no scientific evidence to support your childish and insane assertion that, "Random created humans." LOL! How ridiculous!

KLOBBER wrote:You failed in the educational process, and that is your loss.

You failed in the not-being-a-wanker process, and that is your loss.