Conquer Club

trk1994 wrote:i said other. the beast of revelation is in hell now but will be released at the right time. However, the anti-christ is a person that could very well be alive on earth now. possibly one of those in the poll. My opinion (tounge in cheek) is that Barak Obama is the anti christ. Just take a look at one of his rallies. Looks like some kind of cult to me. He talks of building the military-the Marines in particular. that serves his purpose of taking control cuz the pres. needs no vote or approval to deploy the marines. he is from eastern origins. his father's line is from east africa (prophecy says the anti-christ will have eastern roots). He is very convincing and charming, filling prophecy. there are other things i've heard of but i don't follow it that closely and i don't rememer the Bible as well as i should. Do i honestly think Obama is the anti-christ? maybe not. But is it possible? Very...

::seizes::

MR. Nate wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:
zarathustra + 1 for freddie

ability to groom myself....even if poorly + 2 for me

final score 2-1 me....gg fred.

There's no way you can only give him 1 point for zarathustra. I disagree with almost everything the man said, and I still think that's worth at least 5 if shaving is 2. I mean, I shave my head, and I'm good at it, which means I'd beat freddy by 2 or 3. No, I think brilliance outweighs grooming.

DaGip wrote:Buddha said the EXACT same things, almost entirely verbatim! And Buddha existed 500 years before Jesus! So this tells me something!

Jesus acquired his teachings from the same source as Buddha, or he actually studied Buddhism and brought it to Israel.

But I just wanted you to know that because you are an atheist doesn't mean that you all of a sudden turn into a murderous asshole. You still cling on to teachings of the Christians even if you don't realize it. And that is a good thing!

This is a pretty bold assertion, especially in light of the fact that the Buddhism denies the existence of a personal or imminent god, and Jesus claimed to BE God. Could you give me some passages in the Scripture which are similar to teachings Buddhism, as well as their parallel passages, and which Buddhist text they are in. That's a significant enough claim that if there is truth to it, it needs to be investigated.

Buddhists are not forbidden to believe in a god. They may choose to do so. They may also belong to whatever religion they desire, if that is their choice. Buddhism does not require that you believe in a god or gods, that is true, but Buddhism claims to not be a religion, even though it is treated as such. Buddhism believes itself to be a philosophy of living that can be used despite ones religion.

And if you could provide the passage in the Bible where Jesus says that he is a god, that would be swell. I missed that verse for some damn reason.

But to show you parallels in the teachings, thoughts, and stories of both Jesus and Buddha, here are but a few:

Buddha: "The faults of others are easier to see than one's own."
Jesus: ""Why do you see the splinter in someone else's eye and never notice the log in your own?"

Buddha: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words."
Jesus: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."

Buddha: "During the six years that the Bodhisattva practiced austerities, the demon followed behind him step by step, seeking an opportunity to harm him. But he found no opportunity whatsoever and went away discouraged and discontent."
Jesus: "When the devil had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time."

Buddha answered the "devil": "Get you away from me."
Jesus responded: "...begone, Satan!"

Buddha received gold, frakincense, and myrrh at his birth.
Jesus received gold, frakincense, and myrrh at his birth.

Didn't you watch Zeitgeist yet? You really should take a gander at that movie when you have the time, maybe the truth will start to settle in a bit. Christians would probably get a better appreciation of their religion if they watched this movie.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

Senfive wrote:Why was Obama not one of the options? Never heard of the him before he came out of no where to challenge Hilary.

George Bush is too much of an idiot for even the Devil to want to deal with. Also like was stated earlier what is Osama really ruling over? Plus he isn't good looking and the vast majority hate him. Of what I understand the Anti-christ will be some relatively unknown up until it's too late. No one will really know until then. but I still speculate that Obama is on top of my radar atm.

Obama is the Messiah, haven't you heard?

why are you not telling the truth? obama will destroy the economy and almost every business because of it. i said it before and i say it again, YOU ARE CRAZY.that is all.

griffin_slayer wrote:why are you not telling the truth? obama will destroy the economy and almost every business because of it. i said it before and i say it again, YOU ARE CRAZY.that is all.

Bush beat Obama to it.

Obama = Messiah

DaGip wrote:

griffin_slayer wrote:why are you not telling the truth? obama will destroy the economy and almost every business because of it. i said it before and i say it again, YOU ARE CRAZY.that is all.

Bush beat Obama to it.

Obama = Messiah

the messiah(JESUS) already came, and will come again one day.

You know DaGip. I always thought you were an idiot until I read your post on comparing Buddism and Christinity. I now realize your actually very objective. It's my belief that all religions stem from the same source. I shouldn't say all as I don't know all religions but I do believe the Bible, the book of Mormon, the Gnostic scriptures, and Buddism are all from the same source. That source of course being God.

I agree with everything you wrote in that paticular post.

After hearing your opinion on religion, I know you don't really think that Obama is the Messiah. There's no way you can be so objective on one thing and be so far off on another. With that said, why are you saying that about Obama? Are you just trying to get a rise out of the JFs? If so, it's working. You should really quit doing that though because no good will come from it. Plus, I'm a JF even though I don't believe Jesus is God. I think it's been severely misinterpeted.

Upon hearing your thoughts, I suggest you read up on the Gnostic scriptures. I promise you that you'll find it very informing.

Look this up on the net: Nag Hammadi Library

Something tells me that these readings will give you the same confirmations that I ended up getting and possibly more.

griffin_slayer wrote:why are you not telling the truth? obama will destroy the economy and almost every business because of it. i said it before and i say it again, YOU ARE CRAZY.that is all.

Obama will destroy the ecomomy. and wreck the whole monetary system. Although it will seems as though he tried to prevent it. All just to make way for the new world order and a single money system. Just wait...you'll see.

i don't think obama is the antichrist

I don't honestly think he is either but it's kinda funny and a few things about him do fit the bill

DaGip wrote:And if you could provide the passage in the Bible where Jesus says that he is a god, that would be swell. I missed that verse for some damn reason.

But to show you parallels in the teachings, thoughts, and stories of both Jesus and Buddha, here are but a few:

Buddha: "The faults of others are easier to see than one's own."
Jesus: ""Why do you see the splinter in someone else's eye and never notice the log in your own?"

Buddha: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words."

Jesus: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
Buddha: "During the six years that the Bodhisattva practiced austerities, the demon followed behind him step by step, seeking an opportunity to harm him. But he found no opportunity whatsoever and went away discouraged and discontent."
Jesus: "When the devil had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time."

Buddha answered the "devil": "Get you away from me."
Jesus responded: "...begone, Satan!"

Buddha received gold, frakincense, and myrrh at his birth.
Jesus received gold, frakincense, and myrrh at his birth.

Didn't you watch Zeitgeist yet? You really should take a gander at that movie when you have the time, maybe the truth will start to settle in a bit. Christians would probably get a better appreciation of their religion if they watched this movie.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

Not exactly word for word, but similar ideas between Buddhism and Christianity, certainly. I'm not going to say that Christ was the reincarnation of Buddha, but they had some similar ideas on some subjects. I would appreciate the references so I could look them up myself, however. Not that I don't trust you, but my hermeneutic demands context, not snippits. As for Christs claims to Deity.

Matthew 9 (or Mark 2, if your so inclined) Christ states to a man: "Your sins are forgiven." The Pharisees object, stating that only God can forgive sins. Jesus doesn't disagree, but his response in verses 5&6 indicates that he agrees with the facts behind their objection (only God can forgive sin) but is still claiming the ability to do so.

In Matthew 22, Christ refers to Himself as God, via Psalm 110: "The Lord said to my Lord" Which Christ identifies as himself. It's the same word for Lord, and it means GOD.

John 8, the last two verses, Jesus states: Before Abraham was, I am. The "I am" is present tense, not dative, so it is certainly not "I was." In addition to referring to the original name God had given Moses in Exodus 3:14, it indicates that Jesus believed himself to be eternally preexistent. The Pharisees response indicates that they felt it was a claim to Godhood as well: They wanted to stone him for blasphemy.

It’s also notable that Christ refers to Himself as THE Son of Man. Singular. Daniel uses that as a title for a person who originates in heaven, and has eternal rule over the world. Again, the Pharisees seem to recognize this as a claim to Godhood in Matthew 26:64-66.

Revelation 22:13 seems to indicate that Jesus made claims to deity.


As for zeitgeist, I'd probably prefer to read the books myself. I'm not much for movies which make broad generalizations. To be honest though, what I read on the website was less than impressive. I don't believe Christ was born on Dec. 25, it's more likely the spring, based on the Biblical data. That blows away a big chunk of the astrological stuff. Also, many of the things that Christianity "ripped off" are loose correlations at best. The Dionysus cult, I am a little familiar with, and the text played fast and loose with archaeological finds for that "parallel." Some of the others I have read about at one time or another, and never been impressed with the parallels. Some (precious few) of the details match up if you force them, but by and large, the primary claim in Christendom remains entirely unique.

If Jesus was in fact God, why would he beat around the bush about it so much and not come right out and say it. There's a reason for that.

Throughout the old testament God constantly proclaimed himself in clear and understandable fashion. Where Jesus seemed very hesitent to proclaim the same. Jesus never did say the words, "I am God." If he were in fact God, he would have proclaimed it just as clear as God did.

Jesus had 2 fathers. He had his earthly father and he had his Heavenly father. Jesus was called the son of man and the son of God because he was the first to be endowed with the Holy Spirit. For this, he brought the Holy Spirit into the world making him the son of man and the son of God.

Once again, it all comes down to the fact that Jesus did not and would not come right out and say that he is God. God is not timid about proclaiming himself in anyway. God has shown this side of himself and Jesus has not.

Somewhere throughout the ages someone didn't understand what was being written and they came up with the easiest explanation. This occurance happens all the time. The past is no different in this respect.

Gregrios wrote:If Jesus was in fact God, why would he beat around the bush about it so much and not come right out and say it. There's a reason for that.

Throughout the old testament God constantly proclaimed himself in clear and understandable fashion. Where Jesus seemed very hesitent to proclaim the same. Jesus never did say the words, "I am God." If he were in fact God, he would have proclaimed it just as clear as God did.

Jesus had 2 fathers. He had his earthly father and he had his Heavenly father. Jesus was called the son of man and the son of God because he was the first to be endowed with the Holy Spirit. For this, he brought the Holy Spirit into the world making him the son of man and the son of God.

Once again, it all comes down to the fact that Jesus did not and would not come right out and say that he is God. God is not timid about proclaiming himself in anyway. God has shown this side of himself and Jesus has not.

Somewhere throughout the ages someone didn't understand what was being written and they came up with the easiest explanation. This occurance happens all the time. The past is no different in this respect.

Here is my response, trying to organize what I believe about this subject:

I agree that Jesus didn't come out and say that he was God because hes not God the father, but he is a God just as the Holy Ghost is a God and they are one in purpose.
Jesus, as the Son of God mentioned his father a lot. I don't believe that Jesus had 2 fathers. He is the "Only beggotten" of God the Father - meaning he doesn't have an earthly father, and He's the only one that doesn't have an earthly father. "Son of Man" is another way of saying 'Son of God' because 'Man' is capitolized its also refering to him being the son of God who is an exalted man (some of you might not agree with or understand what I'm saying).

Jesus had to 'beat around the bush' to say that he is the Savior of mankind because the Jews considered it hericy (herisy? or however you spell it) for someone to come out saying something like that. Also if you look at the context in which God or Jehova of the Old testament where he comes out saying that he is God - he is usually talking to people that believe in him - its not the same as Jesus talking to the Jews that didn't belive that Jesus is the Savior and the Jews were trying to find ways to catch him in their 'laws' - trying to find fault in him.

He refered to Himself using the proper name of God. The name Yehweh gave Isreal as his personal name was "I Am" The pharasees challenged Jesus' authority. They said "Abraham said this, and we don't think you've got the authority to challenge Abraham - Who are you?" Jesus response was "Before Abraham was, I AM." I'm not sure how this is beating around the bush. He identified Himself by God's proper name. If you asked me "Who are you" and I said I am MR. Nate, and your conclusion is "Clearly, your not a member of Conquer Club, because you didn't come out and say "I am a member of Conquer Club" you would be written off as incoherent. By claiming the proper name for God as His own (A name so holy that the jews wouldn't even write it with vowels so it would be unpronouncable) Jesus was not simply claiming to be a god, he was claiming to be God Almighty, who had identified Himself to Abraham & Moses.

cramill wrote: "Son of Man" is another way of saying 'Son of God' because 'Man' is capitolized its also refering to him being the son of God who is an exalted man (some of you might not agree with or understand what I'm saying).

I don't think any christian will agree with you.

well you're wrong there, that's exactly what it means.

So God is a man?

Snorri1234 wrote:So God is a man?

Such is the Mystery of Faith...

Snorri1234 wrote:So God is a man?

God is a Man.

MR. Nate wrote:He refered to Himself using the proper name of God. The name Yehweh gave Isreal as his personal name was "I Am" The pharasees challenged Jesus' authority. They said "Abraham said this, and we don't think you've got the authority to challenge Abraham - Who are you?" Jesus response was "Before Abraham was, I AM." I'm not sure how this is beating around the bush. He identified Himself by God's proper name. If you asked me "Who are you" and I said I am MR. Nate, and your conclusion is "Clearly, your not a member of Conquer Club, because you didn't come out and say "I am a member of Conquer Club" you would be written off as incoherent. By claiming the proper name for God as His own (A name so holy that the jews wouldn't even write it with vowels so it would be unpronouncable) Jesus was not simply claiming to be a god, he was claiming to be God Almighty, who had identified Himself to Abraham & Moses.

How is it that the book of Isaiah contradicts everything you just said? Except the book of Isaiah explains it in direct terms. You havn't provided me a quote yet that convinces me that Jesus is in fact God.

Plus, you havn't rebuted anything from my previous remarks. All your doing is providing me with quotes I already know. This isn't going to convince someone with knowelge of the Bible and my beliefs. In the old days they would have called this chasing after wind.

Isaiah, 43.11 - I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

There are at least a dozen more phrases in Isaiah that mention the same message only in different words. I won't bother writing them down as I know that you are familiar with them.

Neoteny wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:So God is a man?

God is a Man.

Yes, She is...yes, She is!

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Snorri1234 wrote:I don't think any christian will agree with you.

You think wrong then.