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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:53 am
by DiM
ok so i guess scrap the intricate design for the legend and we're back to V22 below.
in my opinion the graphics and gameplay are done. all that needs to be decided are the values of the neutrals.
coleman said he'll do some math and post his thoughts on this subject. any other opinions?
DiM wrote:V22
DONE:
* new castle shields
* moved some shields around to take them off the edge.
* changed title in the legend
TO-DO:
* xml (in FF)
NOTES:
* i need comments. what else should i do on the graphics? are they finished? what do you think about the gameplay? are the bonuses ok? the neutrals ok?
V22
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:12 am
by yeti_c
Much prefer this legend!!!
Although isn't the bottom bit a bit wrong?!
C.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:16 am
by DiM
yeti_c wrote:Much prefer this legend!!!
Although isn't the bottom bit a bit wrong?!
C.
why wrong?
perhaps. it's the lighting that makes it look wrong?
i assure you it's not. but the light source is somewhere at the top of the map casting shadows from top to bottom and that is why the bottom rim looks different. i can modify the shadow color or even modify the lightsource for the legend only but that wouldn't be consistent with the rest of the map.
btw yeti_c i'll start the xml and i'll do the terits with coordinates and stuff and leave the bonuses to you ok?
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:36 am
by yeti_c
I'm not sure - there seems to be some mismatch... it might just be me!!!
Yeah no worries with the XML... send me a copy to the usual address!!
C.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:38 am
by yeti_c
Just to confirm...
+5 for castle -> goes to the castle?
+1 castle and village <- is that any village?
+1 village and resouces <- is that any village and resources or just the one's nearby?
+2 castle and resources <- is that any castle and resources or just the one's nearby?
+2 sanctuary -> goes straight to the sanctuary?
C.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:05 am
by DiM
yeti_c wrote:Just to confirm...
+5 for castle -> goes to the castle? not auto deploy
+1 castle and village <- is that any village? yes any village. 1 castle and 1 village = +1
1 castle and 2 villages = +2
2 castle and 2 village = +2
+1 village and resouces <- is that any village and resources or just the one's nearby? same as above
+2 castle and resources <- is that any castle and resources or just the one's nearby? same as above
+2 sanctuary -> goes straight to the sanctuary? not auto deploy
C.
i've started doing the terits when i finish i'll email them to you. cheers.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:07 am
by DiM
yeti_c wrote:I'm not sure - there seems to be some mismatch... it might just be me!!!
Yeah no worries with the XML... send me a copy to the usual address!!
C.
it's definitely you. it can't mismatch because it's done automatically by bevel. it has a custom bevel put around the border and it automatically makes the same bumps at equal distances all around. as i said it's the lighting. the bottom part is shaded and this it seems like the slopes and bumps are different because of the shade.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:09 am
by DiM
one question yeti_c what do i have to write to make a terit start as neutral?
edit/
nevermind i found it
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:24 am
by DiM
yeti_c can you check if this is ok?
the xml for top left island. is this how the neutral is used? ignore the coords. jsut connections and neutrals.
Code: Select all
- <territory>
<name>Fick</name>
- <borders>
<border>Dru</border>
<border>Corn Farm</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>5</neutral>
</territory>
- <territory>
<name>Dru</name>
- <borders>
<border>Aoria</border>
<border>Corn Farm</border>
<border>Aheo</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
</territory>
- <territory>
<name>Aoria</name>
- <borders>
<border>Dru</border>
<border>Rhit</border>
<border>Aheo</border>
<border>Corn Mill</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
</territory>
- <territory>
<name>Corn Mill</name>
- <borders>
<border>Aoria</border>
<border>Rhit</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>6</neutral>
</territory>
- <territory>
<name>Corn Farm</name>
- <borders>
<border>Dru</border>
<border>Fick</border>
<border>Aheo</border>
<border>Lig</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>5</neutral>
</territory>
- <territory>
<name>Aheo</name>
- <borders>
<border>Corn Farm</border>
<border>Ieme</border>
<border>Rhit</border>
<border>Lig</border>
<border>Dru</border>
<border>Aoria</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
</territory>
- <territory>
<name>Lig</name>
- <borders>
<border>Corn Farm</border>
<border>Ieme</border>
<border>Aheo</border>
<border>Haet</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>2</neutral>
- <territory>
<name>Ieme</name>
- <borders>
<border>Aheo</border>
<border>Lig</border>
<border>Rhit</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>2</neutral>
- <territory>
<name>Rhit</name>
- <borders>
<border>Corn Mill</border>
<border>Ieme</border>
<border>Aheo</border>
<border>Aoria</border>
<border>U'rl</border>
<border>Duht</border>
<border>Ikalu</border>
<border>Eon</border>
<border>Vesk</border>
<border>Aosa</border>
<border>Qasr</border>
<border>Voigth</border>
<border>Sler</border>
</borders>
- <coordinates>
<smallx>90</smallx>
<smally>145</smally>
<largex>123</largex>
<largey>188</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>6</neutral>
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:34 am
by cairnswk
DiM...i'm kinda partial to Telvannia's version of the legend with the cut-corners. Don't mean to be nasty
but V22 seems like someone has taken to it with a can opener, though it does have some resemblance to the top of a castle wall. I think Mibi's feng shui idea is important to consider all those sharp edges pointing into the curves. Only an opinion for what it's worth.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:54 am
by DiM
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:19 am
by yeti_c
Neutral XML stuff looks bang on to me...
C.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:21 am
by DiM
yeti_c wrote:Neutral XML stuff looks bang on to me...
C.
thanks. do you know if the xml tester works?
i get this:
Code: Select all
line 10: <territory> - Did not expect text in element territory content
line 2: <map> - Did not expect text in element map content
Summary: 2 errors and 0 warnings detected in AoR.xml
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:26 am
by yeti_c
Stick a dummy <continent> in above the territories...
It should all work... but one of the testers doesn't give great error/warning messages... the other one is better apparently?
C.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:30 am
by DiM
yeti_c wrote:Stick a dummy <continent> in above the territories...
It should all work... but one of the testers doesn't give great error/warning messages... the other one is better apparently?
C.
thanks. it worked to generate army numbers but it didn't work to test the xml. without adding the dummy continent.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:42 am
by yeti_c
The Schema is written to ensure that you must have a continent in your XML...
C.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:30 am
by Aerial Attack
I personally like V21.1 of the legend (dark). The lighter version (22?) isn't too bad. But, this newest incarnation "can-opener" is definitely off. If you want it to look like a castle/tower then only the top would have that effect.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:43 am
by asl80
Hey DiM, i think your last thousand words above looked on the appropriate side. I agree with what you've said on the corners (if it's anything like the examples above).
But i've also included an essay of my own arguing in favor of a wooden background over the marble finish. The conclusion is a little hard to discern, but i'm preety sure the intention is to illuminate the value of a lighter, less standoutishblock that is current, though the terms of the debate were earlier set out by the fact that adding another island was too much work*;
NB: Extensive plagarism may (or may not) be detected.
*Appendix A: Just so that your aware of the quality of the graphitician currently attempting to advise you, i have provided you with an example of some ammendments of my own to your work (i think this is my finest);
I think most will agree that these skills are unsurpassable.
(just wanted to throw it in to show how the general feel of the map would look with an extra island for the legend - in case the possibility wasn't entirely closed)
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:25 pm
by Coleman
No one seems to be at a disadvantage with their starts. Aoria may have an initial advantage but that's if they rush the Sanctuary, and even then before they get a chance to hold it most other players have ports and could counter. After about 3 turns everyone should be at a point where what happens depends on their own choices and not luck. Since Risk is not a solved game (due mostly to dice) I couldn't decide everyone makes their best moves every turn, so further statistics beyond three turns aren't very reliable.
Drog, Drub, Bin, Tait, Ubb, Iburi are all territories I foresee people never taking. But that just may be my own playstyle talking. They don't seem to be of any strategic value. Not sure what you could do about that. There are bunch that are similar, but because they are only defended by 1 neutral it's okay.
For balance issues none of them could drop in value. I guess taking them will just have to be a strategic consideration.
The +5s drop on the castles every turn correct? They aren't part of your pool you get to place on your own?
Anyway, in short I don't feel any neutral values need to change. You seem to have a good balance in needing to wade through 8 armies to own a strategic target that only Aoria breaks. If the neutrals around Aoria grow then Aoria is at a huge disadvantage though because of how accessible it is, so that's fine.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:11 pm
by DiM
Aerial Attack wrote:I personally like V21.1 of the legend (dark). The lighter version (22?) isn't too bad. But, this newest incarnation "can-opener" is definitely off. If you want it to look like a castle/tower then only the top would have that effect.
the can opener is definitely off.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:23 pm
by DiM
asl80 wrote:Hey DiM, i think your last thousand words above looked on the appropriate side. I agree with what you've said on the corners (if it's anything like the examples above).
But i've also included an essay of my own arguing in favor of a wooden background over the marble finish. The conclusion is a little hard to discern, but i'm preety sure the intention is to illuminate the value of a lighter, less standoutishblock that is current, though the terms of the debate were earlier set out by the fact that adding another island was too much work*;
you want something lighter and other people want something darker. both wood and granite do a fine job at their purpose. but as much as i'd like the wood perhaps it's not the best choice considering the theme of the chapter (might) but i think it's just perfect for chapter 3.
as for you're graphic skills all i can say is that they're sublime
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:26 pm
by DiM
Coleman wrote:No one seems to be at a disadvantage with their starts. Aoria may have an initial advantage but that's if they rush the Sanctuary, and even then before they get a chance to hold it most other players have ports and could counter. After about 3 turns everyone should be at a point where what happens depends on their own choices and not luck. Since Risk is not a solved game (due mostly to dice) I couldn't decide everyone makes their best moves every turn, so further statistics beyond three turns aren't very reliable.
Drog, Drub, Bin, Tait, Ubb, Iburi are all territories I foresee people never taking. But that just may be my own playstyle talking. They don't seem to be of any strategic value. Not sure what you could do about that. There are bunch that are similar, but because they are only defended by 1 neutral it's okay.
For balance issues none of them could drop in value. I guess taking them will just have to be a strategic consideration.
The +5s drop on the castles every turn correct? They aren't part of your pool you get to place on your own?
Anyway, in short I don't feel any neutral values need to change. You seem to have a good balance in needing to wade through 8 armies to own a strategic target that only Aoria breaks. If the neutrals around Aoria grow then Aoria is at a huge disadvantage though because of how accessible it is, so that's fine.
thanks for the analisys coleman. yes those terits do seem to be unneeded but if i drop them to 1 then i think a slicght imbalance will arise.
as for the +5 for the castles it's a bonus you receive every turn and you can deploy it anywhere.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:56 pm
by Coleman
DiM wrote:as for the +5 for the castles it's a bonus you receive every turn and you can deploy it anywhere.
Okay good, no need for extra explanation then.
I'm at the point of looking forward to seeing how you manage the small map. I'm still messing around with ideas to see if I can see a real problem with the neutral army placement but it looks surprisingly solid, as in I figured it would be more complex then it has been to get it right.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:12 pm
by DiM
Coleman wrote:DiM wrote:as for the +5 for the castles it's a bonus you receive every turn and you can deploy it anywhere.
Okay good, no need for extra explanation then.
I'm at the point of looking forward to seeing how you manage the small map. I'm still messing around with ideas to see if I can see a real problem with the neutral army placement but it looks surprisingly solid, as in I figured it would be more complex then it has been to get it right.
the small map is fine look on the first post for it.
i switched to large because i hate working with small images.
it will be posted after final forge. i don't think it's needed now. or is it?
as for the neutrals it's actually not that hard to do them. just set your mind on an algorithm based on distance and then do minor adjustments depending on importance of terits and stuff.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:15 pm
by Coleman
I'll have to double check I guess. I thought you needed everything except for xml (unless we think the xml can't be done) to reach Final Forge. If I'm wrong I'll edit this.
AndyDufresne wrote:All maps will need to create good working images of both the large and the small maps (following the guidelines of course).
Yeah, you need Large and Small first. It's fine to wait until you don't think you'll need to make changes to bust out the small map though.
For me that's now or at least soon, but I'm one person.
