Conquer Club

No one likes what the government does, this isn't the same thing as a tax revolt or "we won't fly", "don't touch my junk." etc. etc.

I would possibly respect your attempts to stand up for Islam here if you did not ignore certain parts and buy into public relations style excuses for what these particular morons did. Seperate them out and stop using words that discribe them as muslem. I'm was all for that to the point of suggesting they didn't represent Islam.

If it happened in july I could buy the "but the poppies represent opium." excuse. It was november 11th and coupled with their signs, the poppies full well represented flanders fields. If they were ignorant of that I don't care and refuse to sympthise with you or them.

My point is that it is important for the UK and or her commonwealths/former commonwealths to have a military and the residents of that country must support them as it's the toughest job in the world. A countries armed forces are part of that country. These are free countries, everyone has a right to not like them and leave. Further you can complain about the military without being hatefull and pick another time or else suffer consequences. That there would be a form of "education".

It is just rediculas to allow these protesters to stay after what they did. There should be laws about it. No jail, no cane, no fines, pack your things and leave.

Go to Iraq and complain about their soldiers and government if you want to be cool. Oh yeah you don't want to live there because it sucks like most of the middle east countries. FACT. You want to live in a place that is tolerant toward you being an asshole. Fine I'll tolerate it but I'm going to complain. Alot.

PLAYER57832 wrote:I don't agree with their protest, the day they chose or any other part of it.

Then why defend it in anyway what so ever? You should not have suggested there was an excuse.

PLAYER57832 wrote:That said, I think all such issues should be kept seperate from the soldiers themselves.

We can't, because it was directed at the soldiers themselves. That's my issue.

2dimes wrote:What is the debate? If these morons hate a country they reside in that much I feel said country should assist them in departure.

Who said anything about them hating the country that they are living in? - They have a problem with the military occupations that their country is currently involved in. That doesn't mean that they do not want to live in the UK, but they are just letting everyone know the problem they have with the current military occupations (sure, the choice and style of the way they went about it could have done with a bit more decorum) but it doesn't mean that they should be deported.

2dimes wrote: If it happened in july I could buy the "but the poppies represent opium." excuse. It was november 11th and coupled with their signs, the poppies full well represented flanders fields.

You seem to think this is something I just invented. It isn't. And it's not about ignorance, its about different symbols meaning different things to different people. The swastika once had an honorable tradition, symbolism. It has been "forever" tainted to most people in the west. If I see that in an Eastern painting, etc, I know it has another meaning. Even so, I know many people who would take offense at anysuch display, no matter the context.

2dimes wrote:If they were ignorant of that I don't care and refuse to sympthise with you or them.

Except, you were more than happy to excuse ignorance in those who claimed this was a fine example of Islam.

See, I don't like what these people said, I definitely don't like how they did it and, yes, in truth I understood the protest to be different than it actually was. (It could be I was even referring to a different protest, because the story I heard was about poppies) However, if they were in the US, I would still fight for their right to protest.

This seems to have spun off into something quite different. Maybe we should start another thread and just let this one die.

radiojake wrote:

2dimes wrote:What is the debate? If these morons hate a country they reside in that much I feel said country should assist them in departure.

Who said anything about them hating the country that they are living in? - They have a problem with the military occupations that their country is currently involved in. That doesn't mean that they do not want to live in the UK, but they are just letting everyone know the problem they have with the current military occupations (sure, the choice and style of the way they went about it could have done with a bit more decorum) but it doesn't mean that they should be deported.

Are you joking around here? Do you think this would have went the same way in your country. I suspect it wouldn't.

PLAYER57832 wrote: The swastika once had an honorable tradition, symbolism. It has been "forever" tainted to most people in the west. If I see that in an Eastern painting, etc, I know it has another meaning. Even so, I know many people who would take offense at anysuch display, no matter the context.

This is more similar than you might be aware of.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

2dimes wrote:If they were ignorant of that I don't care and refuse to sympthise with you or them.

Except, you were more than happy to excuse ignorance in those who claimed this was a fine example of Islam.

See, I don't like what these people said, I definitely don't like how they did it and, yes, in truth I understood the protest to be different than it actually was. (It could be I was even referring to a different protest, because the story I heard was about poppies) However, if they were in the US, I would still fight for their right to protest.

For you and anyone else that continually wishes to make it about Islam. I don't have a problem with that, carry on. This whole thing would be totally different if it were in the US&A. I probably wouldn't have posted.

2dimes wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

2dimes wrote:If they were ignorant of that I don't care and refuse to sympthise with you or them.

Except, you were more than happy to excuse ignorance in those who claimed this was a fine example of Islam.

See, I don't like what these people said, I definitely don't like how they did it and, yes, in truth I understood the protest to be different than it actually was. (It could be I was even referring to a different protest, because the story I heard was about poppies) However, if they were in the US, I would still fight for their right to protest.

For you and anyone else that continually wishes to make it about Islam.

For the last time, this is not about Islam. I have said it is NOT about Islam. Those who are trying to make it that are wrong. This is about Britain's actions in the past and, some say in the present in various regions of the world and their ties to the old opium trade.

That you persist in saying I am "trying to defend Islam" here or "making this about Islam" is just wrong.

2dimes wrote:

radiojake wrote:

2dimes wrote:What is the debate? If these morons hate a country they reside in that much I feel said country should assist them in departure.

Who said anything about them hating the country that they are living in? - They have a problem with the military occupations that their country is currently involved in. That doesn't mean that they do not want to live in the UK, but they are just letting everyone know the problem they have with the current military occupations (sure, the choice and style of the way they went about it could have done with a bit more decorum) but it doesn't mean that they should be deported.

Are you joking around here? Do you think this would have went the same way in your country. I suspect it wouldn't.

I'm not quite sure what you mean - If the same thing happened in Australia I'm sure there would be similar outrages from the blind patriots-

I'm thinking if they tried to pull that in Australia we would be reading about riots.

PlayaDigitsYo wrote:That you persist in saying I am "trying to defend Islam" here or "making this about Islam" is just wrong.

I scrolled through and I think you might be right. I must just be super cranky that you defended these scum and I couldn't seperate that poppy excuse from other times you have seemed to use "public relations" maneuvers to deny things that are in the koran.

GreecePwns wrote:

2dimes wrote:The common rumour floating around about the suicide bomber dudes is the promise of "A trip to paradise with the prize of one virgin per infedel they take with them."

How does that fit in with, "all major religion believe that killing someone will send you to hell." and why doesn't the sign clearify. "Soldiers that killed" as opposed to just "British" ones.

A promise from who exactly? Not Allah.

Sorry I dodged this question. I don't know where the promise is from. I have never seen reference to it other than what I can only describe as "rumours." So I'd agree if you said it's probably not from Moe's book.

2dimes wrote:I'm thinking if they tried to pull that in Australia we would be reading about riots.

PlayaDigitsYo wrote:That you persist in saying I am "trying to defend Islam" here or "making this about Islam" is just wrong.

I scrolled through and I think you might be right. I must just be super cranky that you defended these scum and I couldn't seperate that poppy excuse from other times you have seemed to use "public relations" maneuvers to deny things that are in the koran.

You will have to point to where I say much of anything about the K'ran, except that fundamentalists twist it in ways moderates don't agree with, very much like debates within Christianity. I don't feel the KKK represents my beliefs, no matter how much they say they are following the Bible and I respect those within the Muslim community who say that Al Q'aeda similarly distorts their beliefs.

AS per this debate, I have said from the beginning that there is an objection to using poppies as a positive symbol and to celebrating British conquest. Again, I fail to see where Islam comes into that. I have refuted some folks claims that this was about Islam or representative of Islam. If you feel that is somehow "defending" Islam or the K'ran... well, you are using a different dictionary than mine.

Anyway, this needs to go to another thread if you wish to continue. You are no longer debating about the protests or their causes, but debating what you think I feel about Islam.

Nearly as wrong as your claims about the poppy?

The poppy that was chosen as a symbol that represents a natural, non-opiate flower that grows, native and wild in the regions of France that have cemeteries where many of our fallen world war one soldiers are buried.

You know World War I? The great war that apears to cause you to recall with deep sorrow "Britain's actions in the past and, some say in the present in various regions of the world and their ties to the old opium trade."

Can you expand on the "Old opium trade" in France now?