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Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:17 pm
by Juan_Bottom
The NAACP and The City of New Orleans both filed separate class-action lawsuits after Mr Fox did, essentially they saw his mega-success and band-wagon-ed.
The Fox case jury found a dozen gun makers guilty of negligent distribution. The

shooter's gun was never found. Unable to determine which company made the gun

that fired the bullet into Fox's head, the jury ordered all the makers of .25

caliber weapons in the case to pony up $5 million for Fox's care and pain.

Fox's victory burst the dam. Several hundred lawyers - including the Costanza

group, the combine of firms that mangled the tobacco industry - filed suits to

make sure the gun industry feels our pain.

New Orleans was the first of thirty cities in court demanding that gun purveyors pay

the cost of gathering the wounded off the streets, and the cost of arming the municipal police force in

self-defense. The legal profession might have finally accomplished what a

cowering Congress dare not consider: shutting down firearms sales at source.

The NAACP weighed in with a massive class-action suit on behalf of thousands of

the wounded and dead, based on yet another theory: product liability. I spoke to

one of their counsel, Mike Hausfeld, just after he returned from beating Hitler

in a US courtroom.
Of those three shootings, the panel awarded damages in just one case- giving the survivor, Steven Fox, 19, of Queens, $4.95 million and his mother, Gail Fox, $50,000.

Yet the Foxes can actually collect just $500,000 and $7500, respectively, because the jury assigned just 13 percent of the damages to the defendants.

"It was an incredible victory," said plaintiffs lawyer Elisa Barnes. "We held 15 of the 25 liable for negligence."

But defence lawyers also claimed victory. "There's definitely no rhyme or reason to this jury's verdict,"said attorney John Renzulli, who represented Glock and 13 other gun makers.

Defence lawyers said they would file motions to have the verdict thrown out. "It's a classic split-the-baby verdict," said Brooklyn Law School Professor David Yassky. "The negligence (finding) is clearly bad for the gun companies."

The Brooklyn case was the first of its kind ever to go to trial and was viewed as a test for similar suits recently filed across the nation.

The jury of nine women and two men wrangled for five days sending out notes indicating it was deadlocked.

One startling note said 10 jurors were working together, but that one juror refused because he or she believed the verdict "will open the floodgate lawsuits across the country".

"Some didn't like guns and some did. That's why it took so long," said an unidentified male juror.

Brooklyn Federal Judge Jack Weinstein told the jurors to decide the case based on the evidence and not to consider outside implications.
http://bushstole04.com/bushfascism/lawy ... _money.htm <---I couldn't find the original Article, but I know for a fact that Greg Palast did write it.
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/decline/blamegun.htm

But as I said before, it didn't matter that the Gun companies were proven liable, because they later had Congress grant them Immunity from lawsuits. Which was a terrible blow to justice.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:24 am
by Aradhus
I just skimmed this topic because I'm too lazy to read, but just motivated enough to unleash my mighty opinion.

If punishment is the end goal of prison, then we are neither smarter or more moral than the criminals we seek revenge upon.(but hey, I'm just a crazy lib pondering societal problems, maybe most of you are fine with the 'lets make them suffer as much as humanly possible, they deserve it')

If punishment isn't the end goal of prison, then is a strict punishing regime the most efficient method to reach whatever that end goal may be?

Dunno that much about US gun laws. I have heard they're pretty lax, and read some damning statistics, but I'm not sure about the veracity of those statistics.

My favourite pro gun argument is that if everybody carried a gun crime would dramatically fall.
So so true.
And if every rape victim was a willing participant there would be no rape.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:30 pm
by thegreekdog
I wonder if New Orleans sued the gun manufacturer that sells guns to the New Orleans police force (or if they were "inadvertently" left off the list of defendants).
Aradhus wrote:My favourite pro gun argument is that if everybody carried a gun crime would dramatically fall.
So so true.
And if every rape victim was a willing participant there would be no rape.
Oh good lord.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:10 pm
by Juan_Bottom
I'll take the lack of responses to be be a good thing. Success!

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:18 pm
by Borderdawg
Juan_Bottom wrote:I'll take the lack of responses to be be a good thing. Success!
No, massive fail

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:40 pm
by Iliad
Borderdawg wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:I'll take the lack of responses to be be a good thing. Success!
No, massive fail
Well it's nice to see that the debate hasn't degenerated around here.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:45 pm
by Aradhus
thegreekdog wrote:I wonder if New Orleans sued the gun manufacturer that sells guns to the New Orleans police force (or if they were "inadvertently" left off the list of defendants).
Aradhus wrote:My favourite pro gun argument is that if everybody carried a gun crime would dramatically fall.
So so true.
And if every rape victim was a willing participant there would be no rape.
Oh good lord.
wha? I think the gun premise is absurd, hence absurd rape premise. I wasn't drawing a comparison or implying that its analogous.

I just kinda sorta thought it was le funny.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:13 am
by thegreekdog
Aradhus wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I wonder if New Orleans sued the gun manufacturer that sells guns to the New Orleans police force (or if they were "inadvertently" left off the list of defendants).
Aradhus wrote:My favourite pro gun argument is that if everybody carried a gun crime would dramatically fall.
So so true.
And if every rape victim was a willing participant there would be no rape.
Oh good lord.
wha? I think the gun premise is absurd, hence absurd rape premise. I wasn't drawing a comparison or implying that its analogous.

I just kinda sorta thought it was le funny.
Typically, when one uses the phrase "and if," in this context, one is trying to make an analogy. While I don't necessarily agree with the original premise, I certainly wouldn't compare owning a gun to rape.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:55 pm
by Aradhus
Typically when one assumes something, and then responds with that assumption as the core premise of their response, using phrases like "oh good lord", typically, they're being an ass.

Only typically, though.

Re: Prison Strike in Georgia

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:57 am
by MeDeFe
thegreekdog wrote:
Aradhus wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I wonder if New Orleans sued the gun manufacturer that sells guns to the New Orleans police force (or if they were "inadvertently" left off the list of defendants).
Aradhus wrote:My favourite pro gun argument is that if everybody carried a gun crime would dramatically fall.
So so true.
And if every rape victim was a willing participant there would be no rape.
Oh good lord.
wha? I think the gun premise is absurd, hence absurd rape premise. I wasn't drawing a comparison or implying that its analogous.

I just kinda sorta thought it was le funny.
Typically, when one uses the phrase "and if," in this context, one is trying to make an analogy. While I don't necessarily agree with the original premise, I certainly wouldn't compare owning a gun to rape.
With respect to the level of absurdity of the arguments, the analogy is most fitting.