Conquer Club

Phatscotty wrote:Be real for a second...isn't this like the 15th time the Boson has been discovered?

Please show me when the people at the LHC said several times before that they had found it. This is certainly news to me.

I also notice you are taking the classic fundie strategy of avoiding actual arguments and just throwing stuff at the wall untill something sticks.

If you want to talk about the hype and nickname talk about the hype and nickname and leave the science out of it. If you want to talk about science respond to my debunking of your BS article before posting more BS articles.

And for the last time. No sane person claimed that finding the higgs boson proves anything about god. It's just a fuckin particle like the shitload of other particles in the standard model.

Phatscotty wrote:Be real for a second...isn't this like the 15th time the Boson has been discovered?

No, it isn't.

Phatscotty wrote:Keep your pity, and your faith in round 15 of "WE really REALLY found the Higgs this time!"

For someone who claims to follow the LHC so closely, you seem soundly ignorant of this particular topic.

Phatscotty wrote:What the article does, and why I posted it, is because it alludes to a point I started to explore in the LHC thread.

Phatscotty wrote:There is actually a higher conversation to be had in the realm of Science dealing a blow to Religion. Science and newspapers called it the God particle with the full intention of "science solving God"/explaining where we come from or why.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174007&hilit=particle#p3802532

There are a lot of reasons why the Higgs is called the God particle.

So do you actually think that this wasn't the Higgs Boson or do you just not like the way that you have less and less you can accredit to God as more is discovered about the universe? Also, do you really think that the scientists involved in this discovery had this sort of an agenda? I first heard about the Higgs Boson particle while being visited by a Catholic friend of mine who's an engineer. He was so excited about it that he spent fifteen minutes talking about what an incredible moment this was in the scientific world. Surely he isn't thinking about what a blow this is to religion?

Frigidus wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:What the article does, and why I posted it, is because it alludes to a point I started to explore in the LHC thread.

Phatscotty wrote:There is actually a higher conversation to be had in the realm of Science dealing a blow to Religion. Science and newspapers called it the God particle with the full intention of "science solving God"/explaining where we come from or why.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174007&hilit=particle#p3802532

There are a lot of reasons why the Higgs is called the God particle.

So do you actually think that this wasn't the Higgs Boson or do you just not like the way that you have less and less you can accredit to God as more is discovered about the universe? Also, do you really think that the scientists involved in this discovery had this sort of an agenda? I first heard about the Higgs Boson particle while being visited by a Catholic friend of mine who's an engineer. He was so excited about it that he spent fifteen minutes talking about what an incredible moment this was in the scientific world. Surely he isn't thinking about what a blow this is to religion?

That guy probably isn't a dogmatic, ignorant Catholic. That's probably the difference.

In a rare moment of clarity, PS explains himself:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174383&start=45#p3811410

Phatscotty wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Well your claim that the Higgs boson has been found "15 times" is because the other 14 times were pure speculations or announcement of impending experiments, while this time is the annoucing of the result of an experiment which proves its existence with near 100% certainty. The response was a little overdone, but that was also because you've claimed this discovery has no use simply because you don't understand what use it has. Neither do I, nor does anyone here fully. The scientists involved understand the signficance of the discovery within their field, and it will be a time until there is a practical use of these facts are found. That's how it is with every scientific discovery, which is why the claim that this has no significance is wrong.

I think your thoughts on this topic really have to do with its nickname more than anything. Any scientific discovery that would once and for all disprove that which religions claim will be met with this sort of reaction by some. I truly wonder how the religious would react to events such as those depicted in Prometheus, whether they'd discard their beliefs or not.

I don't claim there is no use. I voted yes, because I do care. I understand a tad bit more than the average person, but I do not study or work in anything close to that field other than a few college courses and a genuine curiousity. I have searched out the LHC on my own over the years perhaps a hundred times, just to see what's going on lately, even when it wasn't in the news. It's interesting to me.

And you are right as it is about the nickname, and there is a reason there's always so much hype. That's what I really want to talk about.

If you posted like this all the time, you'd sound more credible and people would take you seriously. Just so you know.

Your smattering of articles, what they say, your emphasis on certain points, does the opposite, showing you as a religious fanatic opposing science because it might disprove your belief. Just say this if this is what you believe. The rest is unnecessary and in fact is why people see you the way they do.

People respond to what's put in front of them. Just saying.

GreecePwns wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Well your claim that the Higgs boson has been found "15 times" is because the other 14 times were pure speculations or announcement of impending experiments, while this time is the annoucing of the result of an experiment which proves its existence with near 100% certainty. The response was a little overdone, but that was also because you've claimed this discovery has no use simply because you don't understand what use it has. Neither do I, nor does anyone here fully. The scientists involved understand the signficance of the discovery within their field, and it will be a time until there is a practical use of these facts are found. That's how it is with every scientific discovery, which is why the claim that this has no significance is wrong.

I think your thoughts on this topic really have to do with its nickname more than anything. Any scientific discovery that would once and for all disprove that which religions claim will be met with this sort of reaction by some. I truly wonder how the religious would react to events such as those depicted in Prometheus, whether they'd discard their beliefs or not.

I don't claim there is no use. I voted yes, because I do care. I understand a tad bit more than the average person, but I do not study or work in anything close to that field other than a few college courses and a genuine curiousity. I have searched out the LHC on my own over the years perhaps a hundred times, just to see what's going on lately, even when it wasn't in the news. It's interesting to me.

And you are right as it is about the nickname, and there is a reason there's always so much hype. That's what I really want to talk about.

If you posted like this all the time, you'd sound more credible and people would take you seriously. Just so you know.

Your smattering of articles, what they say, your emphasis on certain points, does the opposite, showing you as a religious fanatic opposing science because it might disprove your belief. Just say this if this is what you believe. The rest is unnecessary and in fact is why people see you the way they do.

People respond to what's put in front of them. Just saying.

/agree

Frigidus wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:What the article does, and why I posted it, is because it alludes to a point I started to explore in the LHC thread.

Phatscotty wrote:There is actually a higher conversation to be had in the realm of Science dealing a blow to Religion. Science and newspapers called it the God particle with the full intention of "science solving God"/explaining where we come from or why.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=174007&hilit=particle#p3802532

There are a lot of reasons why the Higgs is called the God particle.

So do you actually think that this wasn't the Higgs Boson or do you just not like the way that you have less and less you can accredit to God as more is discovered about the universe? Also, do you really think that the scientists involved in this discovery had this sort of an agenda? I first heard about the Higgs Boson particle while being visited by a Catholic friend of mine who's an engineer. He was so excited about it that he spent fifteen minutes talking about what an incredible moment this was in the scientific world. Surely he isn't thinking about what a blow this is to religion?

I don't really have any way to truly know. All I know is what the scientist say about their experiment, which is pretty much all anyone else knows who is not studying or in a related field. I have not named the scientists as the cause of the hype, but I have consistently pointed out the media (as have many others, even the ones that disagree with me most about the possible motives) but that is not to say the scientists conspired in any way. But since you are asking, sure I would guess that scientists are hip to the double meaning and what can be implied from that (calling it the god particle).

I do not know what your friend is thinking, but since I can see you are an honest collaborator here, I want to ask you. Do you think there is a whiff of nicknaming it the god particle so that it would reflect better on their own profession? with the headline "god particle found!" or "the god particle has been solved!" Just listen to how it sounds man...

don't get me wrong, it's brilliant for one who has an agenda. But we all know there is no agenda or friction or battle between science and religion!!! It's like everyone is ignoring the most obvious truth in the world...

GreecePwns wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Well your claim that the Higgs boson has been found "15 times" is because the other 14 times were pure speculations or announcement of impending experiments, while this time is the annoucing of the result of an experiment which proves its existence with near 100% certainty. The response was a little overdone, but that was also because you've claimed this discovery has no use simply because you don't understand what use it has. Neither do I, nor does anyone here fully. The scientists involved understand the signficance of the discovery within their field, and it will be a time until there is a practical use of these facts are found. That's how it is with every scientific discovery, which is why the claim that this has no significance is wrong.

I think your thoughts on this topic really have to do with its nickname more than anything. Any scientific discovery that would once and for all disprove that which religions claim will be met with this sort of reaction by some. I truly wonder how the religious would react to events such as those depicted in Prometheus, whether they'd discard their beliefs or not.

I don't claim there is no use. I voted yes, because I do care. I understand a tad bit more than the average person, but I do not study or work in anything close to that field other than a few college courses and a genuine curiousity. I have searched out the LHC on my own over the years perhaps a hundred times, just to see what's going on lately, even when it wasn't in the news. It's interesting to me.

And you are right as it is about the nickname, and there is a reason there's always so much hype. That's what I really want to talk about.

If you posted like this all the time, you'd sound more credible and people would take you seriously. Just so you know.

Your smattering of articles, what they say, your emphasis on certain points, does the opposite, showing you as a religious fanatic opposing science because it might disprove your belief. Just say this if this is what you believe. The rest is unnecessary and in fact is why people see you the way they do.

People respond to what's put in front of them. Just saying.

But you are suggesting I change my posting style to accommodate the bias of everyone else. Never anywhere once have I said that I did not believe in the Higgs Boson, or that I did not care, or that I think it's a hoax or a waste of time. That is a bunch of atheists and liberals assuming that I am Conservative (I'm a registered Independent) and therefore assuming that I am religious (I am not). Not all of them, but some of them. It happens all the time, and is probably the most common thing in politics.

My smattering of articles is nothing more than opening another dimension to the conversation, asking and presenting questions for different points of view, in order to stimulate a more interesting and in depth discussion.

All I've tried to do is point out the hype, which many other have as well, and then try to discuss the reason for the hype. People do not "see me the way they do"....they are assuming and auto-rolling. It's a common trait of a non-thinker. This is not to all of them, just some.

Who cares about religion.

You can believe what ever the hell you like and still "believe" in the standard model. You just have to make some pragmatic allowances in your religion if something squarely gets contradicted, but this isnt something new.

I thought modern christians stop taking the bible literally ages ago?

Does anybody care?

Apparently a $100 bet was lost.

Yeh to me that is the biggest thing in the whole discovery:

Stephen Hawkings gut instinct was wrong; HOLY MOTHER FUCKING SHIT THE SKY IS REALLY FALLING NOW PEOPLE.

Phatscotty wrote:But you are suggesting I change my posting style to accommodate the bias of everyone else. Never anywhere once have I said that I did not believe in the Higgs Boson, or that I did not care, or that I think it's a hoax or a waste of time. That is a bunch of atheists and liberals assuming that I am Conservative (I'm a registered Independent) and therefore assuming that I am religious (I am not). Not all of them, but some of them. It happens all the time, and is probably the most common thing in politics.

My smattering of articles is nothing more than opening another dimension to the conversation, asking and presenting questions for different points of view, in order to stimulate a more interesting and in depth discussion.

All I've tried to do is point out the hype, which many other have as well, and then try to discuss the reason for the hype. People do not "see me the way they do"....they are assuming and auto-rolling. It's a common trait of a non-thinker. This is not to all of them, just some.

Oh come on man.

You post an article with a guy all but saying the discovery is all hype, it'll be useless etc etc. Your OP has nothing else except for the article, no indication that you do not fully agree with it. Then you act all surprised that people assume you shared the article's viewpoint ...

Leading people to believe you have oppinions which you don't really have, especially ones which are likely to cause a rise in said people is called trolling ...

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:But you are suggesting I change my posting style to accommodate the bias of everyone else. Never anywhere once have I said that I did not believe in the Higgs Boson, or that I did not care, or that I think it's a hoax or a waste of time. That is a bunch of atheists and liberals assuming that I am Conservative (I'm a registered Independent) and therefore assuming that I am religious (I am not). Not all of them, but some of them. It happens all the time, and is probably the most common thing in politics.

My smattering of articles is nothing more than opening another dimension to the conversation, asking and presenting questions for different points of view, in order to stimulate a more interesting and in depth discussion.

All I've tried to do is point out the hype, which many other have as well, and then try to discuss the reason for the hype. People do not "see me the way they do"....they are assuming and auto-rolling. It's a common trait of a non-thinker. This is not to all of them, just some.

Oh come on man.

You post an article with a guy all but saying the discovery is all hype, it'll be useless etc etc. Your OP has nothing else except for the article, no indication that you do not fully agree with it. Then you act all surprised that people assume you shared the article's viewpoint ...

Leading people to believe you have oppinions which you don't really have, especially ones which are likely to cause a rise in said people is called trolling ...

are you saying I am wrong about my own opinion, and you are right about my opinion? I shared the article because it was the first one that mentioned the hype. Yes, the article was also about other things. But do you see me going on about those other things, or the hype?

I didn't lead anyone to anything. Yall assume a bunch of the worst and run with it. It's yall's standard operating procedure, and it happens on a daily basis. we don't really need to deny that. You are more respectable than most, and I'm sure you try to refrain from doing things like this.

Phatscotty wrote:

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:But you are suggesting I change my posting style to accommodate the bias of everyone else. Never anywhere once have I said that I did not believe in the Higgs Boson, or that I did not care, or that I think it's a hoax or a waste of time. That is a bunch of atheists and liberals assuming that I am Conservative (I'm a registered Independent) and therefore assuming that I am religious (I am not). Not all of them, but some of them. It happens all the time, and is probably the most common thing in politics.

My smattering of articles is nothing more than opening another dimension to the conversation, asking and presenting questions for different points of view, in order to stimulate a more interesting and in depth discussion.

All I've tried to do is point out the hype, which many other have as well, and then try to discuss the reason for the hype. People do not "see me the way they do"....they are assuming and auto-rolling. It's a common trait of a non-thinker. This is not to all of them, just some.

Oh come on man.

You post an article with a guy all but saying the discovery is all hype, it'll be useless etc etc. Your OP has nothing else except for the article, no indication that you do not fully agree with it. Then you act all surprised that people assume you shared the article's viewpoint ...

Leading people to believe you have oppinions which you don't really have, especially ones which are likely to cause a rise in said people is called trolling ...

are you saying I am wrong about my own opinion, and you are right about my opinion? I shared the article because it was the first one that mentioned the hype. Yes, the article was also about other things. But do you see me going on about those other things, or the hype?

I didn't lead anyone to anything. Yall assume a bunch of the worst and run with it. It's yall's standard operating procedure, and it happens on a daily basis. we don't really need to deny that. You are more respectable than most, and I'm sure you try to refrain from doing things like this.

No, he's calling you a troll. I thought that was pretty clear.

Phatscotty wrote:

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:But you are suggesting I change my posting style to accommodate the bias of everyone else. Never anywhere once have I said that I did not believe in the Higgs Boson, or that I did not care, or that I think it's a hoax or a waste of time. That is a bunch of atheists and liberals assuming that I am Conservative (I'm a registered Independent) and therefore assuming that I am religious (I am not). Not all of them, but some of them. It happens all the time, and is probably the most common thing in politics.

My smattering of articles is nothing more than opening another dimension to the conversation, asking and presenting questions for different points of view, in order to stimulate a more interesting and in depth discussion.

All I've tried to do is point out the hype, which many other have as well, and then try to discuss the reason for the hype. People do not "see me the way they do"....they are assuming and auto-rolling. It's a common trait of a non-thinker. This is not to all of them, just some.

Oh come on man.

You post an article with a guy all but saying the discovery is all hype, it'll be useless etc etc. Your OP has nothing else except for the article, no indication that you do not fully agree with it. Then you act all surprised that people assume you shared the article's viewpoint ...

Leading people to believe you have oppinions which you don't really have, especially ones which are likely to cause a rise in said people is called trolling ...

are you saying I am wrong about my own opinion, and you are right about my opinion? I shared the article because it was the first one that mentioned the hype. Yes, the article was also about other things. But do you see me going on about those other things, or the hype?

I didn't lead anyone to anything. Yall assume a bunch of the worst and run with it. It's yall's standard operating procedure, and it happens on a daily basis. we don't really need to deny that. You are more respectable than most, and I'm sure you try to refrain from doing things like this.

Haggis pretty clearly explained why, you know. So did Lootifer, I believe. You DID lead any assumptions by NOT commenting on what YOU thought the article was saying while posting the article. That definitely leads to the impression (you leading someone to something, in this case) that you agreed with the article. If you believe "It's yall's standard operating procedure", perhaps it is because this is, in fact, YOUR standard operating procedure to make that lead.

I am not telling you to change your style to please us. I'm telling you to change your style because it makes you sound more convincing (and not batshit insane), whether on a forum or in person (I can't imagine you carry youtube videos and big pictures of eagles with American flag backdrops in your pocket, but the point remains).

Many people here feel when they talk to you they talk to a wall for a reason. In a real debate or discussion of any sort, you write or say what you believe, and the other person(s) respond with what they believe. The point of debate is not to win the debate for the intelligent person, it is the search for truth. When there are valid questions to be answered about your position, you must answer them all or if you cannot question whether you should be holding that position in the first place. Just because your politicians would rather talk about releasing tax forms or birth certificates or uses of campaign money for dresses or how often they go to church and what church they go to instead of the issues at hand, does not mean that form of debate is acceptable any thinking person.

It's funny how this style of debate ("I can say more inflammatory things, louder, and never question my beliefs") I've predominantly seen in Americans, whether it be in person or online.

Phatscotty wrote:A poll for curiousity and a share of an article written in the National Review.

Without any disrespect to the enormous intellectual achievement of these scientists, let me state that I identify with the mass of humanity that doesn’t really care about the existence of the Higgs boson.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... nis-prager

Do you think the world wide web is important? Yes?

That came from CERN, as a direct result of trying to find the Higgs boson.

Stupid article written by an imbecile.

GreecePwns wrote:It's funny how this style of debate ("I can say more inflammatory things, louder, and never question my beliefs") I've predominantly seen in Americans, whether it be in person or online.

That's what happens when your most popular news stations are glorified propaganda networks.

Good fucking thing I have Phatscotty on ignore when I'm logged in.
WHO THE f*ck MAKES A SIGNATURE WITH A SIZE OF 10.8 MB ANYWAY?!
Sorry to ruin your fun, Phatscotty, but I just turned in a suggestion to limit signature file size.
Page 1 of this thread LAGGED THE f*ck OUT OF MY BROWSER.

Dude you should totally upgrade to an 8 year old laptop with IE9 on it.

2dimes wrote:Dude you should totally upgrade to an 8 year old laptop with IE9 on it.

>IE9


1/10, obvious troll is obvious

So, sincere congratulations to the physicists and other scientists who discovered the Higgs boson. We now think we have uncovered the force or the matter that gives us the 4 percent of the universe that we can observe (96 percent of the universe consists of “dark matter,” about which scientists know almost nothing).

Erm...

20% of the universe is composed of dark matter. Dark matter has mass. Therefore, we've explained what constitutes 24% of the universe. The 76% is dark energy, but this does not mean we don't understand the universe.

the "percents" here are really vague. Are we talking about the makeup of the matter, volume, mass, etc?

Army of GOD wrote:the "percents" here are really vague. Are we talking about the makeup of the matter, volume, mass, etc?

We're talking about the total energy in the universe, assuming that we can treat DE as "standard" energy.