Conquer Club

oVo wrote:Myth: we have to save the Earth. Frankly, the earth doesn't need to be saved. Nature doesn't give a hoot if human beings are here or not. The planet has survived cataclysmic and catastrophic changes for millions upon millions of years. Over that time, it is widely believed, 99 percent of all species have come and gone while the planet has remained. Saving the environment is really about saving our environment -- making it safe for ourselves, our children, and the world as we know it. If more people saw the issue as one of saving themselves, we would probably see increased motivation and commitment to actually do so.

-Robert M. Lilienfeld, management consultant and author (b. 1953) and William L. Rathje, archaeologist and author (b. 1945)

Fact: It's not if humans will become extinct, but when.

I understand and agree with most of what you are saying, however, as far as we know, in the past it has always been natural phenomena that have upset the apple wagon. It is pretty much certain that the factor that is upsetting the apple wagon now is humans. If it were lemmings well then let it run it's course, but it's not lemmings, it's humans for the most part that have created this. A far more developed organism than a lemming. We have the power to change our environment to much greater effect than any other animal that we know of. Furthermore, we also have the power to research this and realize it is our doing that has created the mess, and lastly, we have the power to undo some of the process or at least slow it.

We are to blame and we need to remedy it.

total capitalist propaganda or is that communism... there is no wrong with the weather in sweden. its hot in the winters with little or no snow and cold in the summer ...or wait is that right

I find it hard to believe some people think North American pollution and Asian/Indian pollution are comparable. They aren't.

I find it hard to believe some people think North American pollution and Asian/Indian pollution are comparable. They aren't. In a way that's how you can separate a true environmentalist from those who just want to hate America.

oVo wrote:Myth: we have to save the Earth. Frankly, the earth doesn't need to be saved. Nature doesn't give a hoot if human beings are here or not. The planet has survived cataclysmic and catastrophic changes for millions upon millions of years. Over that time, it is widely believed, 99 percent of all species have come and gone while the planet has remained. Saving the environment is really about saving our environment -- making it safe for ourselves, our children, and the world as we know it. If more people saw the issue as one of saving themselves, we would probably see increased motivation and commitment to actually do so.

-Robert M. Lilienfeld, management consultant and author (b. 1953) and William L. Rathje, archaeologist and author (b. 1945)

Fact: It's not if humans will become extinct, but when.

Does a significant amount of people assume that all of this wasn't for the sake of our own continuation as a species? I've seen this quotation elsewhere, and mot of the time it just looks like something smart to say that dances around a miconception.

--Gomez

A misconception? Do you think this planet
can't survive without us?

Industry is certainly polluting and fucking up this planet,
and with politicians in their pockets the corporate
world will surely push the limits for a profit.

It's been known since ancient times that lead is toxic
to humans. It extended the life of automobiles as an
additive in gasoline by cutting down friction and even
after it was discovered that auto exhaust introduced
lead into the atmosphere, it took decades to defeat the
oil industry and their "science." About the time of the
civil rights movement in America it was finally banned
from use in gas.

Lead is imbedded in the Earth and has to be mined
to be used by anyone for anything. As a heavy metal
it accumulates in the body, affects mental function and
does not dissipate. Whatever lead you absorb in your
lifetime stays with you.

Phatscotty wrote:I find it hard to believe some people think North American pollution and Asian/Indian pollution are comparable. They aren't. In a way that's how you can separate a true environmentalist from those who just want to hate America.

I don't have a vote in China. The only thing I can do is to help stop the US from poisoning the environment.

oVo wrote:A misconception? Do you think this planet
can't survive without us?

Industry is certainly polluting and fucking up this planet,
and with politicians in their pockets the corporate
world will surely push the limits for a profit.

It's been known since ancient times that lead is toxic
to humans. It extended the life of automobiles as an
additive in gasoline by cutting down friction and even
after it was discovered that auto exhaust introduced
lead into the atmosphere, it took decades to defeat the
oil industry and their "science." About the time of the
civil rights movement in America it was finally banned
from use in gas.

Lead is imbedded in the Earth and has to be mined
to be used by anyone for anything. As a heavy metal
it accumulates in the body, affects mental function and
does not dissipate. Whatever lead you absorb in your
lifetime stays with you.

I don't think you understand what I said.

--Gomez

rdsrds2120 wrote:I don't think you understand what I said.

--Gomez

I suppose the misconception you speak of is too confusing
and requires an explanation to pin point exactly which
misconception you're referencing.

DaGip wrote:Yet, it's been the coldest EVER in South Dakota and similarly other states. I think the "Warming" part of Global is flawed. That's why "climate change" is being used more often by the experts, because the effects of Capitalist Pigs polluting the whole planet goes beyond just "warming". Its effects reach farther than just that. Yes, sometimes it's hotter than normal. Yes, sometimes it's colder than normal. Yes, sometimes it's windier than normal....and so on. The fact is that humans have screwed up the ecosystem with their industrialized poisons and junk. Capitalists put profits over the environment and human safety. They always will until they are defeated by their own so-called "democracy". Now we have Fukushima to worry about. Fukushima happened not because of an earthquake and tsunami, it happened because of greed. Wake up, you guys! We have to do something! (like write forum posts at ConquerClub)

While I don't agree with your conclusion, the first part of what you wrote is understandable and quite right. Funny, I remember you being one of the crazy conspiracy guys here back in the day. You seem to have calmed down a bit - welcome back.

DaGip wrote:Capitalists put profits over the environment and human safety. They always will until they are defeated by their own so-called "democracy."

Corporate economics & personal gain trumps ecology, health and decency every time. A condition that government "sold to the highest bidder" will never resolve.

Fukushima is a human tragedy of epic proportions, nurtured along by greed, with corner cutting profit motives resulting in poor decisions and bad design. Negligence at the highest positions playing the odds that nothing bad could happen.

DaGip, not all capitalists are the same, that's WAY too broad a stroke. There are many capitalists who give ALL their earnings to all of the people, who donate millions every year to cancer research, to charity, to hospitals whose mission is to provide poor people with free health care. Tens of millions of Americans pitch in in far too many ways to even list, providing aid to tens of millions of other Americans and hundreds of millions around the world. Many more capitalists spend time every year traveling to third world countries to donate their time and skills to provide free healthcare and dental care and distribute food food to starving people and money and materials for the poor. I personally know dozens of people who do things like this and I'm sure everyone here knows someone like that too. Go ahead and ASK THEM what they think on the matter.

Without capitalism, and more specifically free markets, there would be far less aid to give.

But maybe there would also be far fewer people who need aid?

#theothersideofthecoin

Phatscotty wrote:
The danger is, ANYTHING can be justified when people believe the existence of the planet is at stake.

That sounds like the america after 9/11 . The danger is anything can be justified when people believe theres a terrorist living next door. Great topic .

mrswdk wrote:But maybe there would also be far fewer people who need aid?

#theothersideofthecoin

definitely there would be less people. Not sure if we can know how much aid they would theoretically need.

Without capitalism there would be far fewer (fewer) people? Sounds good, sign me up for the alternative system.

mrswdk wrote:Without capitalism there would be far fewer (fewer) people? Sounds good, sign me up for the alternative system.

Sure. We wouldn't be able to sustain the current population without curing/coping with all those Oregon trail diseases, without the cures being able to reach all areas of the world. without modern medicine. Without modern sanitation, transportation, modern agriculture and food distribution, access to education.... Anything you can name that has extended the average age of humans, has been made better by competition, by far best practices in free markets with economic freedom and Liberty of people to do what they want to do, not do what they were born into.

Separately, looks like the deniers are running away with this one! Did yall know that global warming people are currently trying to BAN not accepting their theories and practices? They are putting pressure on magazines and newspapers and television media outlets not to carry any information that opposes them. Some have already agreed not to run anything the majority says or does or any future scientific results they may find. This really is turning into the way the church used it's power in the dark ages.

Access to education has mostly been increased by governments and public institutions.

And liberty isn't a pronoun

mrswdk wrote:Access to education has mostly been increased by governments and public institutions.

So then Oprah wasted all that money in South Africa for nothing.

Someone should have told her about governmentz.

oVo wrote:OMG!

4/10

But I know you know everyone wants to make the world a better place, and that this is really about who is going to get rich in the process, how much power and force is going to be exerted, how many hundreds of billions will be redistributed to an abc agency, how big an impact it will have on the economy and jobs, what kind of president/Congress is going to put their mark on it and will they be the ones that are bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists, and howfeasible certain things are at different points in time.

Phatscotty wrote:everyone wants to make the world a better place

lol

Phatscotty wrote:DaGip, not all capitalists are the same, that's WAY too broad a stroke. There are many capitalists who give ALL their earnings to all of the people, who donate millions every year to cancer research, to charity, to hospitals whose mission is to provide poor people with free health care. Tens of millions of Americans pitch in in far too many ways to even list, providing aid to tens of millions of other Americans and hundreds of millions around the world. Many more capitalists spend time every year traveling to third world countries to donate their time and skills to provide free healthcare and dental care and distribute food food to starving people and money and materials for the poor. I personally know dozens of people who do things like this and I'm sure everyone here knows someone like that too. Go ahead and ASK THEM what they think on the matter.

Without capitalism, and more specifically free markets, there would be far less aid to give.

Oh....my.....let me wipe my tears from my face. What a beautiful picture you have painted about our caring rich class in America.

Phatscotty wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Access to education has mostly been increased by governments and public institutions.

So then Oprah wasted all that money in South Africa for nothing.

Someone should have told her about governmentz.

Here we go again with your fixations on the Negro......

mrswdk wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:everyone wants to make the world a better place

lol

hehe