Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:08 am
Did I say we should automatically disrespect them? Try again.
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The habits of old are worth dirt
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Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:11 am
We might as well, considering you say we should throw all old customs out just because they are old.
Re: The past is shit
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:23 am
mrswdk wrote:waauw wrote:No need to get rid of old culture, old ideas, old customs and old habits purely because they're old. Many of them provide strong economic advantages in some way or another.
Eagerly awaiting examples and evidence of the economic advantages they bring.
Understanding the word around us and how it works.
Old Native American habits, for example, have lead to understanding of how the Hanta viruses work. Reviewing old diets has both given us clues into the impact of various nutrients, how they caused problems in the past and also clues as to why we have some current problems.
Understanding Native South American practices has lead to advances in medicine
Understanding indigenous agricultural practices is leading to a revolution in food production, sustainability.
Even when the study is mostly a study of contrast/negativity (lest we go there...), such as in reviewing feudalism and slavery, it helps
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:26 am
subtleknifewield wrote:We might as well, considering you say we should throw all old customs out just because they are old.
Discarding old customs and discarding old people are two completely different things
Re: The past is shit
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:28 am
PLAYER57832 wrote:mrswdk wrote:waauw wrote:No need to get rid of old culture, old ideas, old customs and old habits purely because they're old. Many of them provide strong economic advantages in some way or another.
Eagerly awaiting examples and evidence of the economic advantages they bring.
Understanding the word around us and how it works.
Old Native American habits, for example, have lead to understanding of how the Hanta viruses work. Reviewing old diets has both given us clues into the impact of various nutrients, how they caused problems in the past and also clues as to why we have some current problems.
Understanding Native South American practices has lead to advances in medicine
Understanding indigenous agricultural practices is leading to a revolution in food production, sustainability.
Even when the study is mostly a study of contrast/negativity (lest we go there...), such as in reviewing feudalism and slavery, it helps
I'd ask for some concrete examples, maybe even some sources(!), but, ya know...
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:31 am
mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:We might as well, considering you say we should throw all old customs out just because they are old.
Discarding old customs and discarding old people are two completely different things
Not really, when the customs are ABOUT old people.
OK let's put it this way, then, should we abandon the custom of caring for the elderly when they can no longer meaningfully contribute to society?
Re: The past is shit
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:21 pm
mrswdk wrote:waauw wrote:No need to get rid of old culture, old ideas, old customs and old habits purely because they're old. Many of them provide strong economic advantages in some way or another.
Eagerly awaiting examples and evidence of the economic advantages they bring.
mrswdk wrote:I'd ask for some concrete examples, maybe even some sources(!), but, ya know... "
PLAYER57832 wrote:Here you go, just a few. there are many more, but doubt anyone will read them anyway.
Understanding the world around us and the changes happening in it better:
http://nativecases.evergreen.edu/collec ... canal.html
Old Native American habits, for example, have lead to understanding of how the Hanta viruses work.
Hanta virus reviving old Native American customs
From this source: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/788980-overview
Hantavirus Cardiopulmonary Syndrome, Author: Juliet D Caldwell, MD; Chief Editor: Jeter (Jay) Pritchard Taylor, III, MD more. wrote:According to Native American legend, HCPS has existed in North America's southwest desert for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Navajo oral tradition describes an illness now thought to be HCPS that struck down young healthy members of the tribe after temperate winters, and tradition also warns of the dangers of coexisting with rodents.
Reviewing old diets has both given us clues into the impact of various nutrients, how they caused problems in the past and also clues as to why we have some current problems. (note, not endorsing any particular diet, just saying that review of the past is yielding pertinent information)
https://www.reneesgarden.com/articles/3sisters.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... 95228.html
http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/616
Understanding Native South American practices has lead to advances in medicine
http://rainforests.mongabay.com/1007.htm
http://www.scidev.net/global/indigenous ... gures.html
http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/where_w ... le_plants/
http://www.sacredearth.com/ethnobotany/ ... merica.php
Understanding indigenous agricultural practices is leading to a revolution in food production, sustainability.
http://www.tahtonka.com/food.html
Even when the study is mostly a study of contrast/negativity (lest we go there...), such as in reviewing feudalism and slavery, it helps
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:38 pm
The short version is that neither those links nor your commentary on them provide any kind of argument in favor of upholding native traditions or customs.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:50 pm
subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:We might as well, considering you say we should throw all old customs out just because they are old.
Discarding old customs and discarding old people are two completely different things
Not really, when the customs are ABOUT old people.
OK let's put it this way, then, should we abandon the custom of caring for the elderly when they can no longer meaningfully contribute to society?
You mean, like in all those Western countries where this is exactly the case, and the elderly are generally expected to have saved enough money during their working lives to support themselves during retirement?
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:05 pm
mrswdk wrote:The short version is that neither those links nor your commentary on them provide any kind of argument in favor of upholding native traditions or customs.
A. I said learn from the past.. which we have done.
B. We do use ancient methods. What is old is now becoming new.
We use the three sisters here in my region, part of the historic Iroquois association of nations.
We use many ancient medicines and techniques in modern medicine
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:09 pm
mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:We might as well, considering you say we should throw all old customs out just because they are old.
Discarding old customs and discarding old people are two completely different things
Not really, when the customs are ABOUT old people.
OK let's put it this way, then, should we abandon the custom of caring for the elderly when they can no longer meaningfully contribute to society?
You mean, like in all those Western countries where this is exactly the case, and the elderly are generally expected to have saved enough money during their working lives to support themselves during retirement?
I didn't say Western society is perfect. Nice dodging of my question. Please answer it.
Do you think it should be discarded in China?
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:28 pm
subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:We might as well, considering you say we should throw all old customs out just because they are old.
Discarding old customs and discarding old people are two completely different things
Not really, when the customs are ABOUT old people.
OK let's put it this way, then, should we abandon the custom of caring for the elderly when they can no longer meaningfully contribute to society?
You mean, like in all those Western countries where this is exactly the case, and the elderly are generally expected to have saved enough money during their working lives to support themselves during retirement?
I didn't say Western society is perfect.
And I wasn't attacking it.
Nice dodging of my question.
You said 'we'. I didn't realize you were a part of Chinese society, so I assumed you were talking about a different society.
Do you think it should be discarded in China?
Given that the state in China does no more than provide a pension, care is not provided be any collective 'we' but by the children of whichever old person is being cared for.
And given the high number of families in which there are now four grandparents, two parents and one child, I doubt sitting around waiting for their children to provide for them is going to be tenable for a lot of today's Chinese, so the 'hurr filial piety' brigade are probably going to be forced to confront a new reality whether they want to or not. What comes next depends - if the state doesn't step in, people are going to have to start saving more for their old age, and in many cases start to consider elderly residential living. Personally I can't see why either option would be a problem.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:31 pm
Respect for Elders in itself is completely arbitary.
Its actually.
Respect for their greater experience. And that has a clearly logical reason for being respectable.
Now stop arguing a specific as there are multiple than be used for either side of the discussion.
Its actually.
Respect for their greater experience. And that has a clearly logical reason for being respectable.
Now stop arguing a specific as there are multiple than be used for either side of the discussion.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:32 pm
If an old person has greater experience than me in any particular area then naturally I will give some weight to their views and insight.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:38 pm
mrswdk wrote:If an old person has greater experience than me in any particular area then naturally I will give some weight to their views and insight.
That therein is probably the reason it became a cultural thing in the first place.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:39 pm
subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:If an old person has greater experience than me in any particular area then naturally I will give some weight to their views and insight.
That therein is probably the reason it became a cultural thing in the first place.
'If' being the operative word.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:40 pm
Still should respect them...respect doesn't mean you have to obey every single order they give you or believe every word they utter.
Respect is not about blind obedience.
Respect is not about blind obedience.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:52 pm
subtleknifewield wrote:Respect is not about blind obedience.
lol. Respect as a general concept is not about blind obedience, but filial piety and Confucian norms of deference to authority are.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:56 pm
mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:If an old person has greater experience than me in any particular area then naturally I will give some weight to their views and insight.
That therein is probably the reason it became a cultural thing in the first place.
'If' being the operative word.
All elders have more experience at living.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:12 pm
WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:If an old person has greater experience than me in any particular area then naturally I will give some weight to their views and insight.
That therein is probably the reason it became a cultural thing in the first place.
'If' being the operative word.
All elders have more experience at living.
You mean like inhaling and exhaling, the consumption of food, expulsion of waste matter etc.？
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:28 pm
mrswdk wrote:WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:mrswdk wrote:subtleknifewield wrote:mrswdk wrote:If an old person has greater experience than me in any particular area then naturally I will give some weight to their views and insight.
That therein is probably the reason it became a cultural thing in the first place.
'If' being the operative word.
All elders have more experience at living.
You mean like inhaling and exhaling, the consumption of food, expulsion of waste matter etc.？
And this is why you think the habits of old are dirt. No respect. Human interaction, which is the most important experienes there are. Both individuals interaction, groups, nations etc.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:37 pm
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:38 am
mrswdk wrote:The short version is that neither those links nor your commentary on them provide any kind of argument in favor of upholding native traditions or customs.
Easy to say when you don't bother reading the links.
Typical. Ask for them and then cannot be bothered to verify. You want to criticize, but not respond honestly to those who oppose you. Maybe I should call you Phatt? Or maybe I just mis-remember you as someone who does like honest debate?
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:07 pm
PLAYER57832 wrote:mrswdk wrote:The short version is that neither those links nor your commentary on them provide any kind of argument in favor of upholding native traditions or customs.
Easy to say when you don't bother reading the links.[/quote]
I read several and none of them upheld your argument. I decided not to bother reading the rest as well because I can imagine they are all in a similar vane.
Re: The habits of old are worth dirt
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:22 pm
PLAYER57832 wrote:mrswdk wrote:The short version is that neither those links nor your commentary on them provide any kind of argument in favor of upholding native traditions or customs.
Easy to say when you don't bother reading the links.
Typical. Ask for them and then cannot be bothered to verify. You want to criticize, but not respond honestly to those who oppose you. Maybe I should call you Phatt? Or maybe I just mis-remember you as someone who does like honest debate?
Phatt and mrswdk do use the same technique in avoiding a direct answer to a questions you may have of them. They bury you with nonsense and double speak.