Conquer Club

jay_a2j wrote: It is as if you are SEARCHING for a reason do dismiss God because the moment you acknowledge Him you have to give an account for yourself. And I know the unwillingness to want to do that, I lived it.

God is actually nothing but a metaphor for the collective consciousness, which is itself also a metaphor of sorts rather than something tangible or cohesive. It's best understood as the "needs of many" - the sum total of all cognition, the collective will of all sentient beings.

Some people are simple-minded, and want to cling to the concept of a literal "god" - it's like they have this need for a parent to hold their hand. And these are the people who are the most resistant to thinking outside their comfort zone.

Is there anything anyone could say that would convince you that your concept of "god" is false? Is there any evidence anyone could give? No, I don't think there is, because no matter the evidence or reasoning, you'd still find some way to wiggle out of it, it's all part of the "mysterious ways" loophole, or the "god of the gaps" loophole, or any number of loopholes that the subjectivity of all observation allows oneself. So why bother... why bother starting these debates that span years, spending your time trying to convince others how much you believe you're right? Why indeed, unless it's because deep down you know that your religion does not cure you of that one, deep, fundamental fear...

You think you know the only truth? Bitch please. Come talk to me when you've destroyed that childish ego of yours. Some day, maybe you too will realize it's time to grow up and get to work, because this world doesn't keep itself running, you know. There is no god to rely on, what you see is what you get, and if you don't do your fair share to build a better future then no one will - not god, not jesus, not even jebus.

It's your choice. Shit or get off the toilet.

natty dread wrote:God is actually nothing but a metaphor for the collective consciousness, which is itself also a metaphor of sorts rather than something tangible or cohesive. It's best understood as the "needs of many" - the sum total of all cognition, the collective will of all sentient beings.SAYS YOU??? LOL OK THEN

Some people are simple-minded, and want to cling to the concept of a literal "god" - it's like they have this need for a parent to hold their hand. And these are the people who are the most resistant to thinking outside their comfort zone. FAITH IN GOD = SIMPLE MINDED EH? CALL ME SIMPLE MINDED THEN..... THE FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART "THERE IS NO GOD"...... SO I GUESS I'M SIMPLE AND YOU'RE A FOOL

Is there anything anyone could say that would convince you that your concept of "god" is false? Is there any evidence anyone could give? No, I don't think there is, because no matter the evidence or reasoning, you'd still find some way to wiggle out of it, it's all part of the "mysterious ways" loophole, or the "god of the gaps" loophole, or any number of loopholes that the subjectivity of all observation allows oneself. So why bother... why bother starting these debates that span years, spending your time trying to convince others how much you believe you're right? Why indeed, unless it's because deep down you know that your religion does not cure you of that one, deep, fundamental fear...WRONG AGAIN! IF GOD IS FOR ME, WHOM SHALL I FEAR?

You think you know the only truth? Bitch please. Come talk to me when you've destroyed that childish ego of yours. Some day, maybe you too will realize it's time to grow up and get to work, because this world doesn't keep itself running, you know. There is no god to rely on, what you see is what you get, and if you don't do your fair share to build a better future then no one will - not god, not jesus, not even jebus. JESUS SAID," I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.... NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME"

It's your choice. Shit or get off the toilet.

IT'S YOUR CHOICE, ACCEPT GODS FREE GIFT OR BE SEPARATED FROM HIM FOR ETERNITY!

jay_a2j wrote:

natty dread wrote:God is actually nothing but a metaphor for the collective consciousness, which is itself also a metaphor of sorts rather than something tangible or cohesive. It's best understood as the "needs of many" - the sum total of all cognition, the collective will of all sentient beings.SAYS YOU??? LOL OK THEN

Some people are simple-minded, and want to cling to the concept of a literal "god" - it's like they have this need for a parent to hold their hand. And these are the people who are the most resistant to thinking outside their comfort zone. FAITH IN GOD = SIMPLE MINDED EH? CALL ME SIMPLE MINDED THEN..... THE FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART "THERE IS NO GOD"...... SO I GUESS I'M SIMPLE AND YOU'RE A FOOL

Is there anything anyone could say that would convince you that your concept of "god" is false? Is there any evidence anyone could give? No, I don't think there is, because no matter the evidence or reasoning, you'd still find some way to wiggle out of it, it's all part of the "mysterious ways" loophole, or the "god of the gaps" loophole, or any number of loopholes that the subjectivity of all observation allows oneself. So why bother... why bother starting these debates that span years, spending your time trying to convince others how much you believe you're right? Why indeed, unless it's because deep down you know that your religion does not cure you of that one, deep, fundamental fear...WRONG AGAIN! IF GOD IS FOR ME, WHOM SHALL I FEAR?

You think you know the only truth? Bitch please. Come talk to me when you've destroyed that childish ego of yours. Some day, maybe you too will realize it's time to grow up and get to work, because this world doesn't keep itself running, you know. There is no god to rely on, what you see is what you get, and if you don't do your fair share to build a better future then no one will - not god, not jesus, not even jebus. JESUS SAID," I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.... NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME"

It's your choice. Shit or get off the toilet.

IT'S YOUR CHOICE, ACCEPT GODS FREE GIFT OR BE SEPARATED FROM HIM FOR ETERNITY!

But that's not how logic works, jay. "The bible says the bible is true therefore its true because the bible is God's word therefore there is a God" may be a satisfying conclusion for you (and I have no problem with that, good luck to you) - but that is NOT logic.

jonesthecurl wrote:But that's not how logic works, jay. "The bible says the bible is true therefore its true because the bible is God's word therefore there is a God" may be a satisfying conclusion for you (and I have no problem with that, good luck to you) - but that is NOT logic.

The Bible proves itself. You can not know God by logic, it requires faith. But all creation SCREAMS (via logic) that God is! But to know this God, to have fellowship with Him requires faith.

The obvious conclusion that life can not come from that which is not living logically points to God as the creator of all life.

I'm not entirely sure you understand the words "logic" and "obvious".

jay_a2j wrote:

natty dread wrote:God is actually nothing but a metaphor for the collective consciousness, which is itself also a metaphor of sorts rather than something tangible or cohesive. It's best understood as the "needs of many" - the sum total of all cognition, the collective will of all sentient beings.SAYS YOU??? LOL OK THEN

Some people are simple-minded, and want to cling to the concept of a literal "god" - it's like they have this need for a parent to hold their hand. And these are the people who are the most resistant to thinking outside their comfort zone. FAITH IN GOD = SIMPLE MINDED EH? CALL ME SIMPLE MINDED THEN..... THE FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART "THERE IS NO GOD"...... SO I GUESS I'M SIMPLE AND YOU'RE A FOOL

Is there anything anyone could say that would convince you that your concept of "god" is false? Is there any evidence anyone could give? No, I don't think there is, because no matter the evidence or reasoning, you'd still find some way to wiggle out of it, it's all part of the "mysterious ways" loophole, or the "god of the gaps" loophole, or any number of loopholes that the subjectivity of all observation allows oneself. So why bother... why bother starting these debates that span years, spending your time trying to convince others how much you believe you're right? Why indeed, unless it's because deep down you know that your religion does not cure you of that one, deep, fundamental fear...WRONG AGAIN! IF GOD IS FOR ME, WHOM SHALL I FEAR?

You think you know the only truth? Bitch please. Come talk to me when you've destroyed that childish ego of yours. Some day, maybe you too will realize it's time to grow up and get to work, because this world doesn't keep itself running, you know. There is no god to rely on, what you see is what you get, and if you don't do your fair share to build a better future then no one will - not god, not jesus, not even jebus. JESUS SAID," I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.... NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME"

It's your choice. Shit or get off the toilet.

IT'S YOUR CHOICE, ACCEPT GODS FREE GIFT OR BE SEPARATED FROM HIM FOR ETERNITY!

Extortion: The go to tactics of the truly Good.

Thread title by jay_a2j wrote:Logic dictates that there is a God!

jay_a2j wrote:You can not know God by logic, it requires faith.

Biggest self denial of all times

I must admit this is quality suicide from negligence

GoranZ wrote:

Thread title by jay_a2j wrote:Logic dictates that there is a God!

jay_a2j wrote:You can not know God by logic, it requires faith.

Biggest self denial of all times

I must admit this is quality suicide from negligence

TRY posting the FULL quote not part of it so you can prop yourself up as finding some kind of gem when in fact you are being intellectually dishonest....

THIS is what was said:

jay_a2j wrote: You can not know God by logic, it requires faith. But all creation SCREAMS (via logic) that God is! But to know this God, to have fellowship with Him requires faith.

Try again...



(btw via means "by way of" in case you were wondering)

jay_a2j wrote:

natty dread wrote:God is actually nothing but a metaphor for the collective consciousness, which is itself also a metaphor of sorts rather than something tangible or cohesive. It's best understood as the "needs of many" - the sum total of all cognition, the collective will of all sentient beings.SAYS YOU??? LOL OK THEN

Some people are simple-minded, and want to cling to the concept of a literal "god" - it's like they have this need for a parent to hold their hand. And these are the people who are the most resistant to thinking outside their comfort zone. FAITH IN GOD = SIMPLE MINDED EH? CALL ME SIMPLE MINDED THEN..... THE FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART "THERE IS NO GOD"...... SO I GUESS I'M SIMPLE AND YOU'RE A FOOL

Having fun playing with crayons?

The fool says in his heart, "I DO NOT NEED TO LEARN TO USE THE QUOTE FUNCTION"

Is there anything anyone could say that would convince you that your concept of "god" is false? Is there any evidence anyone could give? No, I don't think there is, because no matter the evidence or reasoning, you'd still find some way to wiggle out of it, it's all part of the "mysterious ways" loophole, or the "god of the gaps" loophole, or any number of loopholes that the subjectivity of all observation allows oneself. So why bother... why bother starting these debates that span years, spending your time trying to convince others how much you believe you're right? Why indeed, unless it's because deep down you know that your religion does not cure you of that one, deep, fundamental fear...WRONG AGAIN! IF GOD IS FOR ME, WHOM SHALL I FEAR?

If you really have no fear, why are you so defensive and shouting all the time?

You know your own fears. Face them and look inside.

. JESUS SAID," I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.... NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME"

Wow, what a pervert. I don't really want to cum into jebus's father. Through him or around him or over him... no thanks.

IT'S YOUR CHOICE, ACCEPT GODS FREE GIFT OR BE SEPARATED FROM HIM FOR ETERNITY!

Is this a limited time only offer? Are there free prizes for the millionth customer?

Two more banished into the Lake of Ignore....

I'll debate, converse or discuss all sorts of topics. But if you can't be civil I'm not wasting my time. If you resort to name calling or "flamming" because you don't have anything to add to a discussion then take your immature, non-impressive, grade school antics elsewhere..... I ain't got time for dat!

jay_a2j wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

Thread title by jay_a2j wrote:Logic dictates that there is a God!

jay_a2j wrote:You can not know God by logic, it requires faith.

Biggest self denial of all times

I must admit this is quality suicide from negligence

TRY posting the FULL quote not part of it so you can prop yourself up as finding some kind of gem when in fact you are being intellectually dishonest....

THIS is what was said:

jay_a2j wrote: You can not know God by logic, it requires faith. But all creation SCREAMS (via logic) that God is! But to know this God, to have fellowship with Him requires faith.

Try again...



(btw via means "by way of" in case you were wondering)

Have you ever wonder why are there less and less followers of God? Because no one would like to identify them selves with low IQ creature as you

On top... Logic only dictates that you dont use any logic

We close to settling this yet?

I'd give it 50 more pages before we reach consensus.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:We close to settling this yet?

I'd give it 50 more pages before we reach consensus.

Define "consensus".

Dukasaur wrote:

Haggis_McMutton wrote:We close to settling this yet?

I'd give it 50 more pages before we reach consensus.

Define "consensus".

WAIT!!! if that means only 50 more pages and we will know if there is a GOD or not!!!!!

I await the new pages to come As an agnostic i am always looking or the answer!!!!

and who says cc is a bunch of trolls!!!!! WOOT WOOT!!

jay_a2j wrote:Two more banished into the Lake of Ignore....

I'll debate, converse or discuss all sorts of topics. But if you can't be civil I'm not wasting my time. If you resort to name calling or "flamming" because you don't have anything to add to a discussion then take your immature, non-impressive, grade school antics elsewhere..... I ain't got time for dat!

I have questions for you, jay. Is God infallible? That is he knows what is going to happen, when it will happen and what to do about it (if anything)?

And the Bible is written by men who took inspiration from God directly, so to speak? That is filled with Holy Spirit to compose the Book and that the Book is a true rendition into the nature of God? (Not necessarily literal, BTW, but that the Book describes the nature of God truly and in whole in so much as words are able?

patches70 wrote:

I have questions for you, jay. Is God infallible? That is he knows what is going to happen, when it will happen and what to do about it (if anything)?

And the Bible is written by men who took inspiration from God directly, so to speak? That is filled with Holy Spirit to compose the Book and that the Book is a true rendition into the nature of God? (Not necessarily literal, BTW, but that the Book describes the nature of God truly and in whole in so much as words are able?

God is all-knowing. He knew your moment of birth, moment of death and everything in between 10 million years ago. And to those who will reject Him, He still draws to Himself so there will be no excuse accepted for that rejection. I believe in a literal interpretation of scripture. God split the Red Sea not some nearby stream as I saw on the History Channel. That the men who God chose wrote down exactly what the Spirit of God led them to write.

jay_a2j wrote:

God is all-knowing. He knew your moment of birth, moment of death and everything in between 10 million years ago. And to those who will reject Him, He still draws to Himself so there will be no excuse accepted for that rejection. I believe in a literal interpretation of scripture. God split the Red Sea not some nearby stream as I saw on the History Channel. That the men who God chose wrote down exactly what the Spirit of God led them to write.

Ok! Thanks jay, I appreciate your response. I have some more questions, though, keeping in mind the above.

jay wrote:God is all-knowing.

Using logic, if one is all-knowing, then one knows what to do in any given circumstance, correct?

If so, looking at the bible which you say-

Jay wrote: I believe in a literal interpretation of scripture

there are several passages in the bible that logic dictates that God may not be so all knowing as it seems. One specifically is Genesis 18:17 Then the Lord said "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?" You know the story, God is deciding if he should tell Abraham that Sodom is going to be destroyed.

In this passage we see God thinking, not knowing for sure exactly how to proceed. He wondering, should he or should he not tell Abraham what is going to happen.

He comes to a decision, obviously. But why did he have to think about what to do with Abraham?

And is God alone in this all knowing ability? Who is the "us" that is often referred to in the bible that God converses with? As in Come, let us go down and confuse their language* and when he created man- Let us make man in our image**

*Genesis 11:7

**Genesis, 1:26


I'm just asking, Jay, not trying to really say anything either way, just asking questions is all.


I have some other questions, more for fun that you may enjoy conversing a bit about.

My favorite book of the bible is John. In John there is the famous story of "cast the first stone". We all know the story, a woman who was accused of adultery is about to be stoned. In an attempt to trick Jesus he was asked if she should be stoned. Jesus saw through the trick and began writing in the sand while the Pharisees and the crowd kept pestering Jesus about if the woman should be stoned to death or not. And then Jesus stood up and said the famous "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her".
And so the crowd went away, the woman was saved and Jesus turned the trap around on the Pharisees. It's an outstanding story, which resonates to this very day in many ways.

The questions I have-
1. Who was the woman?
2. What did Jesus write in the sand?

And for one extra bonus question, the nature of sin.
It is said, sin in in one's heart. Sin is actions and thoughts we have. But in the bible there is one place, one time where sin is described as an actual thing, with form, substance, a body, not just a concept. It only happens once in the entire bible, this particular characterization of sin.
Do you know where that is in the bible?
And what is the significance of this rather strange way of describing sin?


Anyway, I ain't bashing ya at all, I'm just conversating with ya because you may actually conversate back instead of troll like all the God haters here.

I would warn against reading into the bible too literally, though. Even Jesus had a problem with people taking things too literal (see Luke, 22:36-38). That kinda made me laugh, Jesus just curtly shutting the disciples up with "That is enough" and not another word after. Hahaha! Jesus had to be curt with them at that moment because the disciples were missing the point of what Jesus was trying to tell them. But they'd learn soon enough I guess, and it's a lesson you should know well, Jay, considering the some of the responses you've gotten in this thread.
But the same mistake the disciples made, is easily made again today taking things too literally.

Peace

patches70 wrote:
there are several passages in the bible that logic dictates that God may not be so all knowing as it seems. One specifically is Genesis 18:17 Then the Lord said "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?" You know the story, God is deciding if he should tell Abraham that Sodom is going to be destroyed.

In this passage we see God thinking, not knowing for sure exactly how to proceed. He wondering, should he or should he not tell Abraham what is going to happen.

He comes to a decision, obviously. But why did he have to think about what to do with Abraham?

Gen. 18:18 "Seeing that Abraham shall surely (How does God know?) become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him" (again, another assumption? Or does God see the future?)

"Shall I hide...." might be a rhetorical question. Needing no answer because He already knows it.

patches70 wrote: And is God alone in this all knowing ability? Who is the "us" that is often referred to in the bible that God converses with? As in Come, let us go down and confuse their language* and when he created man- Let us make man in our image**

*Genesis 11:7

**Genesis, 1:26

The "us" is the trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus existed before being born to Mary. Jesus has always existed and always will exist. Jesus is God.... one of the three members of the trinity.

patches70 wrote:I have some other questions, more for fun that you may enjoy conversing a bit about.

My favorite book of the bible is John. In John there is the famous story of "cast the first stone". We all know the story, a woman who was accused of adultery is about to be stoned. In an attempt to trick Jesus he was asked if she should be stoned. Jesus saw through the trick and began writing in the sand while the Pharisees and the crowd kept pestering Jesus about if the woman should be stoned to death or not. And then Jesus stood up and said the famous "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her".
And so the crowd went away, the woman was saved and Jesus turned the trap around on the Pharisees. It's an outstanding story, which resonates to this very day in many ways.

The questions I have-
1. Who was the woman?
2. What did Jesus write in the sand?

Some say Mary Magdalene.

Some say he wrote the Pharisees sins in the sand

(neither of which is in scripture)

patches70 wrote:And for one extra bonus question, the nature of sin.
It is said, sin in in one's heart. Sin is actions and thoughts we have. But in the bible there is one place, one time where sin is described as an actual thing, with form, substance, a body, not just a concept. It only happens once in the entire bible, this particular characterization of sin.
Do you know where that is in the bible?
And what is the significance of this rather strange way of describing sin?


Anyway, I ain't bashing ya at all, I'm just conversating with ya because you may actually conversate back instead of troll like all the God haters here.

I would warn against reading into the bible too literally, though. Even Jesus had a problem with people taking things too literal (see Luke, 22:36-38). That kinda made me laugh, Jesus just curtly shutting the disciples up with "That is enough" and not another word after. Hahaha! Jesus had to be curt with them at that moment because the disciples were missing the point of what Jesus was trying to tell them. But they'd learn soon enough I guess, and it's a lesson you should know well, Jay, considering the some of the responses you've gotten in this thread.
But the same mistake the disciples made, is easily made again today taking things too literally.

Peace

To the "sin" question... I do not know

Let me clarify.... "tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up again". Literal with understanding. The Pharisees thinking the literal (stone) temple but Jesus referring to His crucifixion.

Thread title by jay_a2j wrote:Logic dictates that there is a God!

jay_a2j wrote:You can not know God by logic, it requires faith.

I asked this question in another thread, but I doubt it will be answered, so I will shoot 2 believers with 1 bullet

Adam and Eve and 4 human blood types. Go ahead I would like to hear your biblical explanation

Haggis_McMutton wrote:We close to settling this yet?

I'd give it 50 more pages before we reach consensus.

It was settled on page one, there are just a few die hard holdouts.

Dukasaur wrote:

Haggis_McMutton wrote:We close to settling this yet?

I'd give it 50 more pages before we reach consensus.

Define "consensus".

Define "pages".

If you think critically and with logic and without emotion, there is only ONE conclusion you cane arrive at.



























Jones is funny.

Define define.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Define define.


--Andy

andandy andandy

GoranZ wrote:

Thread title by jay_a2j wrote:Logic dictates that there is a God!

jay_a2j wrote:You can not know God by logic, it requires faith.

I asked this question in another thread, but I doubt it will be answered, so I will shoot 2 believers with 1 bullet

Adam and Eve and 4 human blood types. Go ahead I would like to hear your biblical explanation

Even if there was a biblical explanation for something that was more science based than faith based, I am pretty sure you wouldn't believe it anyway since I am gathering you do not believe anything in the Bible.

My view on all of this is that the Bible was not written to explain nor justify the existence of God but to provide a message about salvation and inspiration. When I listen to passages from the Bible, I don't try to figure out why God didn't create both the animals and Adam and Eve on the fifth day, then rest on both the sixth and the seventh day. Even though that's what I would have done because I like my two day weekends.

Nor do I believe that Adam and Eve were simply two humans that are essentially at the top of the family tree of all of humankind. I think the purpose of the story is that man and woman came to existence. How they came to existence is much less important than the fact that they do exist and even more important is that within their existence, they are to do good for others like them.

Too many people try to explain science and the Bible as if they need to be two distinct separate things. To me one is more about explaining why things are here and the other is more about what to do while you are here. I understand why people want to know more about if/how/when/why we evolved from a lesser species. I also understand why people want to grow the faith in their lives. I don't understand why both sides are so argumentative as to why they are definitely correct and the other side is wrong. People are not all-knowing. We never will be. It is simply who we are. With that said, if there is a higher power, he could give all the proof he wanted to get us to believe whatever he felt was correct. Much like how I can convince a young child that I actually pulled a quarter out from behind their ear. Who's to say all this scientific data is not just one giant illusion laid out by an intelligent designer. I do not personally believe that but I wouldn't ridicule someone who did either because it's as good of explanation as it all came out of nowhere, whether big bang or God.