Conquer Club

Wait, wait, wait... when the f*ck did dinosaurs become birds?

thegreekdog wrote:Wait, wait, wait... when the f*ck did dinosaurs become birds?

You're a little behind the times. Birds are practically considered to be living dinosaurs. How cool is that?

Neoteny wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Wait, wait, wait... when the f*ck did dinosaurs become birds?

You're a little behind the times. Birds are practically considered to be living dinosaurs. How cool is that?

I am behind the times! I loved dinosaurs when I was a kid and must have totally missed this stuff.

So, is there any indication that dinosaurs = dragons? And I mean that seriously.

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Wait, wait, wait... when the f*ck did dinosaurs become birds?

You're a little behind the times. Birds are practically considered to be living dinosaurs. How cool is that?

I am behind the times! I loved dinosaurs when I was a kid and must have totally missed this stuff.

So, is there any indication that dinosaurs = dragons? And I mean that seriously.

I can't back up with any science, but I'm going to give a tentative affirmative. Because that would be awesome.

I just think... okay, you're a dude living sometime in the BCE or early CE. Let's ignore the fact that dinosaurs did not exist at the same time as humans. Anyway, you're this dude and you're walking around with your sword (bronze, iron, steel, doesn't matter) and you see this huge fucking bird-like creature running towards you. So you run off the other way. When you get back to your village, don't you tell all your friends about the story (and how you killed this thing with your sword). Maybe you embellish some more... the thing breathed fucking fire... I mean, doesn't the logic alone dictate that dragons = dinosaurs?

thegreekdog wrote:I just think... okay, you're a dude living sometime in the BCE or early CE. Let's ignore the fact that dinosaurs did not exist at the same time as humans. Anyway, you're this dude and you're walking around with your sword (bronze, iron, steel, doesn't matter) and you see this huge fucking bird-like creature running towards you. So you run off the other way. When you get back to your village, don't you tell all your friends about the story (and how you killed this thing with your sword). Maybe you embellish some more... the thing breathed fucking fire... I mean, doesn't the logic alone dictate that dragons = dinosaurs?

Or, perhaps, emus.

Frigidus wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:I just think... okay, you're a dude living sometime in the BCE or early CE. Let's ignore the fact that dinosaurs did not exist at the same time as humans. Anyway, you're this dude and you're walking around with your sword (bronze, iron, steel, doesn't matter) and you see this huge fucking bird-like creature running towards you. So you run off the other way. When you get back to your village, don't you tell all your friends about the story (and how you killed this thing with your sword). Maybe you embellish some more... the thing breathed fucking fire... I mean, doesn't the logic alone dictate that dragons = dinosaurs?

Or, perhaps, emus.

Well, yeah. That and also "holy balls I was just chased by a giantfuck birdbeast and shit myself," doesn't quite have the same impact.

Yeah birds are as close as we have to dinosaurs, except maybe some reptiles.

I'd keep that as a pet and use it to scare kids on Halloween.

Neoteny wrote:

Frigidus wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:I just think... okay, you're a dude living sometime in the BCE or early CE. Let's ignore the fact that dinosaurs did not exist at the same time as humans. Anyway, you're this dude and you're walking around with your sword (bronze, iron, steel, doesn't matter) and you see this huge fucking bird-like creature running towards you. So you run off the other way. When you get back to your village, don't you tell all your friends about the story (and how you killed this thing with your sword). Maybe you embellish some more... the thing breathed fucking fire... I mean, doesn't the logic alone dictate that dragons = dinosaurs?

Or, perhaps, emus.

Well, yeah. That and also "holy balls I was just chased by a giantfuck birdbeast and shit myself," doesn't quite have the same impact.

If I had a sword, I'm not sure I'd be scared of an emu. Plus, were there emus in Europe or China? Aren't those the places that had a thing for dragons?

thegreekdog wrote:Let's ignore the fact that dinosaurs did not exist at the same time as humans...

I wouldn't be so sure of that if I was you.

You do realize that Stonehenge is actually a dinosaur/dragon trap, don't you?

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Wait, wait, wait... when the f*ck did dinosaurs become birds?

You're a little behind the times. Birds are practically considered to be living dinosaurs. How cool is that?

I am behind the times! I loved dinosaurs when I was a kid and must have totally missed this stuff.

So, is there any indication that dinosaurs = dragons? And I mean that seriously.

Ms. Mayor said her study of ancient texts revealed ample evidence of a ''bone rush'' among Greeks in the fifth century B.C. Every discovery of huge bones, it seems, prompted speculation that they belonged to this hero or that giant. Many of these finds happened to occur, Ms. Mayor said, at places where the gods and giants of mythology had met in battle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/04/scien ... gewanted=1

Every know society has dragon tales.

2dimes wrote:Every know society has dragon tales.

Hmm... interesting. I don't know if this is more proof for my point or more proof against it.

AWESOME!

thegreekdog wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Wait, wait, wait... when the f*ck did dinosaurs become birds?

You're a little behind the times. Birds are practically considered to be living dinosaurs. How cool is that?

I am behind the times! I loved dinosaurs when I was a kid and must have totally missed this stuff.

So, is there any indication that dinosaurs = dragons? And I mean that seriously.

Folklore could possibly back you up on that, I recall reading somewhere that there are quite a number of fossilized Pterosaurs in Europe, and quite a number of fossilized Sauropodae in east Asia.

Now compare: and Notice the wings and the lack of forelegs? Highly typical of dragons in European art.



On the other hand we have this: and the corresponding dragon A long body and four legs, no wings.

Four-legged Asian dragons versus two-legged (and two-handed) European dragons. Interesting. Is there any correlation between fossils found in Europe and the myths associated with dragons in Europe.

By the way, European dragons drive mini bikes, eat crouissants and smoke unfiltered cigarettes.

thegreekdog wrote:Four-legged Asian dragons versus two-legged (and two-handed) European dragons. Interesting. Is there any correlation between fossils found in Europe and the myths associated with dragons in Europe.

That's what I'm saying might be the case. The first picture is a skeleton of a pterosaur, a flying dinosaur, the second picture is a depiction of Saint George slaying a dragon that displays some striking similarities to a pterosaur. Apparently pterosaur fossils are more common in Europe unless my information is incorrect.


The 3rd and 4th pictures illustrate the same relation between sauropodae, that apparently are more common in east Asia, and a Chinese dragon.

MeDeFe wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Four-legged Asian dragons versus two-legged (and two-handed) European dragons. Interesting. Is there any correlation between fossils found in Europe and the myths associated with dragons in Europe.

That's what I'm saying might be the case. The first picture is a skeleton of a pterosaur, a flying dinosaur, the second picture is a depiction of Saint George slaying a dragon that displays some striking similarities to a pterosaur. Apparently pterosaur fossils are more common in Europe unless my information is incorrect.


The 3rd and 4th pictures illustrate the same relation between sauropodae, that apparently are more common in east Asia, and a Chinese dragon.

Oh, sorry. I didn't see where you typed they were common in Europe/Asia. Interesting stuff though. Seriously, I love dinosaurs.

MeDeFe wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Four-legged Asian dragons versus two-legged (and two-handed) European dragons. Interesting. Is there any correlation between fossils found in Europe and the myths associated with dragons in Europe.

That's what I'm saying might be the case. The first picture is a skeleton of a pterosaur, a flying dinosaur, the second picture is a depiction of Saint George slaying a dragon that displays some striking similarities to a pterosaur. Apparently pterosaur fossils are more common in Europe unless my information is incorrect.


The 3rd and 4th pictures illustrate the same relation between sauropodae, that apparently are more common in east Asia, and a Chinese dragon.

Come one people you are killing me. I thought more of you were totally into dinos than this.
Among paleontologists and historians its pretty commonly shared that the legends of monsters and giants were directly influenced by fossils. Early European paleontologists didn't really know what they were doing, and they threw away a lot of really important stuff. For instance, any bones. The Greeks were known to mine and find many fossils among coastlines (like teeth). They would worship them and claim that they came from a beast or a giant. When early European aristocrats explored Greek temples and ruins decades later, they would discard these bones. I remember reading about a paleontologist in about the 1900s who remarked in his journal that he had found an odd 6ft long femur in a Greek temple and then wrote about how he had thrown it away. Idiots! I think Mammoth bones are fairly commonly linked with ancient and developed cultures.
Edit, yeah what Gabon said.

thegreekdog wrote:and you see this huge fucking bird-like creature running towards you.

There weren't any then. But in the age of the dinosaurs there were. Even baby T-Rexs had feathers which they shed as a juvenile. But I would do more than sh*t myself if I saw that coming...

And so long as I'm bursting bubbles and blowing minds, did you now that the T-Rex had a brain nearly identical to modern day Vultures? It is now believed that the T-Rex may (probably) not have been a fearsome predator at all. It is much more likely that it was a scavenger.
I still can't get over that. It's awesome.

I still pretend in my mind that the T-Rex pretty much chased and single-handedly brought everything down like a lone lioness bringing down a wildebeest.

The "tyrant lizard king" seems a bit more apropos with the scavenging, however.

Juan_Bottom wrote:And so long as I'm bursting bubbles and blowing minds, did you now that the T-Rex had a brain nearly identical to modern day Vultures? It is now believed that the T-Rex may (probably) not have been a fearsome predator at all. It is much more likely that it was a scavenger.
I still can't get over that. It's awesome.

Not awesome! Totally weak!

Juan_Bottom wrote:

MeDeFe wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Four-legged Asian dragons versus two-legged (and two-handed) European dragons. Interesting. Is there any correlation between fossils found in Europe and the myths associated with dragons in Europe.

That's what I'm saying might be the case. The first picture is a skeleton of a pterosaur, a flying dinosaur, the second picture is a depiction of Saint George slaying a dragon that displays some striking similarities to a pterosaur. Apparently pterosaur fossils are more common in Europe unless my information is incorrect.


The 3rd and 4th pictures illustrate the same relation between sauropodae, that apparently are more common in east Asia, and a Chinese dragon.

Come one people you are killing me. I thought more of you were totally into dinos than this.
Among paleontologists and historians its pretty commonly shared that the legends of monsters and giants were directly influenced by fossils. Early European paleontologists didn't really know what they were doing, and they threw away a lot of really important stuff. For instance, any bones. The Greeks were known to mine and find many fossils among coastlines (like teeth). They would worship them and claim that they came from a beast or a giant. When early European aristocrats explored Greek temples and ruins decades later, they would discard these bones. I remember reading about a paleontologist in about the 1900s who remarked in his journal that he had found an odd 6ft long femur in a Greek temple and then wrote about how he had thrown it away. Idiots! I think Mammoth bones are fairly commonly linked with ancient and developed cultures.
Edit, yeah what Gabon said.

thegreekdog wrote:and you see this huge fucking bird-like creature running towards you.

There weren't any then. But in the age of the dinosaurs there were. Even baby T-Rexs had feathers which they shed as a juvenile. But I would do more than sh*t myself if I saw that coming...

And so long as I'm bursting bubbles and blowing minds, did you now that the T-Rex had a brain nearly identical to modern day Vultures? It is now believed that the T-Rex may (probably) not have been a fearsome predator at all. It is much more likely that it was a scavenger.
I still can't get over that. It's awesome.

Actually, on the T-rex thing, a recent program I watched talked about how the T-rex would have actually been fairly smart (amongst dinos anyway) amd had eye's that had a fairly large field of vision allowing them to hunt prey, as well as coordinate with family members as it is believed they may have hunted in family units. Though I did not here that T-rex's had feathers at a young age, but did know that nearly all of the raptors did.

muy_thaiguy wrote: Actually, on the T-rex thing, a recent program I watched talked about how the T-rex would have actually been fairly smart (amongst dinos anyway) amd had eye's that had a fairly large field of vision allowing them to hunt prey, as well as coordinate with family members as it is believed they may have hunted in family units. Though I did not here that T-rex's had feathers at a young age, but did know that nearly all of the raptors did

It's all rubbish I say. The kind folks who discovered T-Rex are the ones who decided that she was the Tyrant Lizard King. It would make sense given that you would expect that paleontologists would have been the experts on the subject of Dinosaurs. But the science didn't really exist in their day. T-Rex was made out to be this huge hulking and slow monster that dragged it's tail on the ground. Times have changed as we learned more.
The argument over apex predator or scavenger has been going a while, and will continue on to the future.
It's not a wide field of vision that T-Rex is known for, it's known for it's amazing and uncommon binocular vision. T-Rex had the ability to judge how far away something was. They also had just amazing smell.
But the argument for scavenger I think is stronger than the argument for predator. T-Rex had a vulture's brain for crying out loud. Add a body structure that we see over time (6 million years) evolving to walk long distances instead of running... it's really fascinating stuff though. The whole debate is.

About juveniles, yeah that's awesome too. They looked different enough from adults that for a very long time they were classified as a separate species from T-Rex.

And about Dino's becoming birds.
I remember reading somewhere about tissue that was recovered from a T-Rex bone. Included was some red blood cells which were very similar to Ostrich's red blood cells. T-Rex specifically has been called genetically a cross between a chicken and a newt.
It's all just so hardcore I love this.

I love that the name of that article is "Dino-Pecker?"