Conquer Club

My personal stand- we all end up dead and we can't take it with us. Nobody starts with the same set of opportunities. Some start with significant advantages of birth, and others start with things that will always hold them down.

Even if we feel that we are equal under the law, we know that money and race affect the way that we have access to the law.

Symmetry wrote:My personal stand- we all end up dead and we can't take it with us. Nobody starts with the same set of opportunities. Some start with significant advantages of birth, and others start with things that will always hold them down.

Even if we feel that we are equal under the law, we know that money and race affect the way that we have access to the law.

Unfortunately that's true. We strive to correct disadvantages and point out the inconsistencies of things that aren't just, but it's always going to be a struggle.

We don't really "end equal", because I don't consider a 4 year old dying due to a war the same as a 90 year old billionaire dying because he's drowning in his own pool of money.



Same with being born. Some are born into everything, some are born into nothing.


















But teh kittez, they are cute.

Army of GOD wrote:We don't really "end equal", because I don't consider a 4 year old dying due to a war the same as a 90 year old billionaire dying because he's drowning in his own pool of money.



Same with being born. Some are born into everything, some are born into nothing.

But teh kittez, they are cute.

Perhaps, and a fair point. Either way, the end is the same. Death. I'd say that it's what's in the middle that counts.

Well, I don't really want to assume what happens in the after life. Maybe nothing, maybe heaven, maybe reincarnation, Idk.

I don't think we can ever truly finish the pyramid. It is only something we can strive closer and closer to, or detract further and further from....

Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well. Some have to work harder than others, but the principal is still open to all. the goal is still acheivable by all. I think it can be said like this.

Life is not fair

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well.

Mmmmmmmmmmmhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well.

Here's the thing- reality shapes us too. We can't fully shape our own destiny. Most people have their destiny shaped for them. They won't have equal opportunities.

I absolutely accept that exceptional individuals will be able to transcend their backgrounds. I do think that they are extremely exceptional though.

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well.

Here's the thing- reality shapes us too. We can't fully shape our own destiny. Most people have their destiny shaped for them. They won't have equal opportunities.

I absolutely accept that exceptional individuals will be able to transcend their backgrounds. I do think that they are extremely exceptional though.

Before a certain age, yea, they're destiny's are shaped. And, without sounding too elitist, I think it has to do with intelligence (maybe that's the wrong word) and the ability to actually think for yourself.

But once someone gets passed that point, how far they go depends on what they do. Some people don't push hard enough and fail miserably. Others grind through the dirt and make it.

Army of GOD wrote:
Before a certain age, yea, they're destiny's are shaped. And, without sounding too elitist, I think it has to do with intelligence (maybe that's the wrong word) and the ability to actually think for yourself.

But once someone gets passed that point, how far they go depends on what they do. Some people don't push hard enough and fail miserably. Others grind through the dirt and make it.

Interesting point- what age would you say was certain? Before that age, should their be policies in place to ensure equality between children who can't be relied on for intelligence to define their fates?

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well.

Here's the thing- reality shapes us too. We can't fully shape our own destiny. Most people have their destiny shaped for them. They won't have equal opportunities.

I absolutely accept that exceptional individuals will be able to transcend their backgrounds. I do think that they are extremely exceptional though.

I hear what you are saying, but I disagree with the adjective extremely. Although, I guess, if one is DENIED the opportunity to witness certain perspectives and experiences, then one could never truly understand what to aspire for. However, it is such a large world and there are so many different paths, who is to even say which is better? there are some secret to success that ONLY a poor person could understand, sometimes witnessing poverty is the only things that drives one to work harder so as to never return (mmm mac n cheese w/mtn dew FAV) to poverty.

example: One might say access to a college education is good or great or makes ALL the difference. I would argue a college experience can cause you to lose yourself and site of your goals, it can put you deep into debt, you dont learn anything REAL, with some excpetions, real world skills, 50% of graduates do not go on to have careers in the field they studied in college, not to mention the brain washing that goes on at most universities along with being taught their parents are wrong, IMO.

just rambling yo

Everyone should get an equal chance in High School, because that's where most of the base for learning is. Everything before that was just a joke. But like, there are complete idiots I know who went to a Private High School where they're getting twice as much education as I did in mine s***hole, yet I was still smarter than them. My family isn't the "most rich", so I kinda was annoyed that I wasn't given the same opportunity.

another example. My first run through college, the money did not come out of my pocket. guess what? I did not take it seriosuly and ending up dropping classes. Guess what? I didn't like my job but I stayed there and budgeted my money and paid for my own tuition and guess what? I gave a shit this time and got all A's and found out I was a little bit smart.

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well.

Here's the thing- reality shapes us too. We can't fully shape our own destiny. Most people have their destiny shaped for them. They won't have equal opportunities.

I absolutely accept that exceptional individuals will be able to transcend their backgrounds. I do think that they are extremely exceptional though.

I hear what you are saying, but I disagree with the adjective extremely. Although, I guess, if one is DENIED the opportunity to witness certain perspectives and experiences, then one could never truly understand what to aspire for. However, it is such a large world and there are so many different paths, who is to even say which is better? there are some secret to success that ONLY a poor person could understand, sometimes witnessing poverty is the only things that drives one to work harder so as to never return (mmm mac n cheese w/mtn dew FAV) to poverty.

example: One might say access to a college education is good or great or makes ALL the difference. I would argue a college experience can cause you to lose yourself and site of your goals, it can put you deep into debt, you dont learn anything REAL, with some excpetions, real world skills, 50% of graduates do not go on to have careers in the field they studied in college, not to mention the brain washing that goes on at most universities along with being taught their parents are wrong, IMO.

just rambling yo

Nah-and I can deal with a bit of rambling. I'm fairly prone myself.

I'd say that the "extremely" point was pretty fair in my experience. I think it's helped by programmes that look for people who have merit but would not otherwise be able to attend a private school or a college. You're right that college is not a good experience for everyone.

I feel that we're disagreeing about generalities vs. individual experiences. You seem to be saying that it's always possible to succeed. I feel like I'm arguing that the odds of success are stacked against certain people from birth. I'm not sure if that is strictly a disagreement.

It is, for me, important to point out that we aren't born with the same opportunities. We don't all have the same chance of becoming leader of our country, or a successful businessman.

Kittens ARE cute.

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Now there's a good point. At least we accept that we are not born equally, and that laws either make us more or less equal. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is to accept inequality.

yes but you do not have to give up the complete reality that it is we who shape our own desitny as well.

Here's the thing- reality shapes us too. We can't fully shape our own destiny. Most people have their destiny shaped for them. They won't have equal opportunities.

I absolutely accept that exceptional individuals will be able to transcend their backgrounds. I do think that they are extremely exceptional though.

I hear what you are saying, but I disagree with the adjective extremely. Although, I guess, if one is DENIED the opportunity to witness certain perspectives and experiences, then one could never truly understand what to aspire for. However, it is such a large world and there are so many different paths, who is to even say which is better? there are some secret to success that ONLY a poor person could understand, sometimes witnessing poverty is the only things that drives one to work harder so as to never return (mmm mac n cheese w/mtn dew FAV) to poverty.

example: One might say access to a college education is good or great or makes ALL the difference. I would argue a college experience can cause you to lose yourself and site of your goals, it can put you deep into debt, you dont learn anything REAL, with some excpetions, real world skills, 50% of graduates do not go on to have careers in the field they studied in college, not to mention the brain washing that goes on at most universities along with being taught their parents are wrong, IMO.

just rambling yo

Nah-and I can deal with a bit of rambling. I'm fairly prone myself.

I'd say that the "extremely" point was pretty fair in my experience. I think it's helped by programmes that look for people who have merit but would not otherwise be able to attend a private school or a college. You're right that college is not a good experience for everyone.

I feel that we're disagreeing about generalities vs. individual experiences. You seem to be saying that it's always possible to succeed. I feel like I'm arguing that the odds of success are stacked against certain people from birth. I'm not sure if that is strictly a disagreement.

It is, for me, important to point out that we aren't born with the same opportunities. We don't all have the same chance of becoming leader of our country, or a successful businessman.

I will only say one thing. When a person believes they do not have a chance, they do not. If a person believes they have a chance, go ahead and tell them they can't do it. They will shove it in your face I guarantee it, cuz their gonna make it come hell or high water.

There are different levels of availability from the start of course. 40% to the gov't will make you far less likely to succeed than 37%.

Phatscotty wrote:I will only say one thing. When a person believes they do not have a chance, they do not. If a person believes they have a chance, go ahead and tell them they can't do it. They will shove it in your face I guarantee it, cuz their gonna make it come hell or high water.

There are different levels of availability from the start of course. 40% to the gov't will make you far less likely to succeed than 37%.

Accuse me of stupidity, and feel free to criticize this post, but I lost you after the second sentence. I'm not sure what you wanted to say.

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:I will only say one thing. When a person believes they do not have a chance, they do not. If a person believes they have a chance, go ahead and tell them they can't do it. They will shove it in your face I guarantee it, cuz their gonna make it come hell or high water.

There are different levels of availability from the start of course. 40% to the gov't will make you far less likely to succeed than 37%.

Accuse me of stupidity, and feel free to criticize this post, but I lost you after the second sentence. I'm not sure what you wanted to say.

nah, i guess I'm saying it's a frame of mind to. Not saying you have one, but a defeatist attitude will get one nowhere fast.

It's like the Matrix: "Free your mind."

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:I will only say one thing. When a person believes they do not have a chance, they do not. If a person believes they have a chance, go ahead and tell them they can't do it. They will shove it in your face I guarantee it, cuz their gonna make it come hell or high water.

There are different levels of availability from the start of course. 40% to the gov't will make you far less likely to succeed than 37%.

Accuse me of stupidity, and feel free to criticize this post, but I lost you after the second sentence. I'm not sure what you wanted to say.

nah, i guess I'm saying it's a frame of mind to. Not saying you have one, but a defeatist attitude will get one nowhere fast.

Ok- yeah, I would say that defeatism doesn't get anyone far. I guess it gets losing sides in wars pretty far, so it has value there. And yeah, I appreciate that I'm not getting anyone anywhere fast.

Army of GOD wrote:It's like the Matrix: "Free your mind."

Well done, Army of God, well done

I know people who have made it. I work for people who have made it. I grew up watching my mom make it, lose it, then make it again. I saw her do it. 3 kids, 2 jobs, full time student at the U, and still went out on thursday nights...

How can anyone say that God created all men equal when Negroes have larger penises? Wut?


Honibaz