Conquer Club

I've heard and read about the crisis in the US, I've seen people alarmed, heard radio shows that appeared to be exaggerated, but until my last trip tot he US, I hadn't seen this: the US is not other thing than a huge mall for Chinese products!

I mean, I know I only go there to buy stuff therefore that's all I pay attention to.. but... seriously.. everything is Chinese!!!! EVERYTHING!! And everybody buys Chinese stuff. I don't know much about economy but I think I can take a straight forward corollary from this: either the US bombard Shanghai and Beijing tomorrow or they are fucked. Soon enough they will start copying missiles and selling them at $99.99. Antrhax at $2 dls a pound.

I don't know how can the US beat the Chinese in the matter. Unless of course that the inventive spirit of the Americans is protected by guns.

Capitalism follows its course, and capitalism is not synonym of "American-only".

nietzsche wrote:I've heard and read about the crisis in the US, I've seen people alarmed, heard radio shows that appeared to be exaggerated, but until my last trip tot he US, I hadn't seen this: the US is not other thing than a huge mall for Chinese products!

I mean, I know I only go there to buy stuff therefore that's all I pay attention to.. but... seriously.. everything is Chinese!!!! EVERYTHING!! And everybody buys Chinese stuff. I don't know much about economy but I think I can take a straight forward corollary from this: either the US bombard Shanghai and Beijing tomorrow or they are fucked. Soon enough they will start copying missiles and selling them at $99.99. Antrhax at $2 dls a pound.

I don't know how can the US beat the Chinese in the matter. Unless of course that the inventive spirit of the Americans is protected by guns.

Capitalism follows its course, and capitalism is not synonym of "American-only".

we are a consumer nation, for better or WORSE.

Thought maybe this thread wouldbe about real estate crisis, I am still free to make that one!

"for better or worse?" Nope, sorry. Pursuit of the almighty dollar does not give a few individuals the right to destroy what everyone else has.

The real state crisis is second to the problem of the unbalance between imports/exports IMO.

nietzsche wrote:The real state crisis is second to the problem of the unbalance between imports/exports IMO.

True. Or, more like a symtom of the first. It was reliance upon an unsustainable economy that created/allowed for the real estate boom and a "let's not worry about consequences as long as we're making money" attitude that caused the damage to spread so widely.

Ironically enough, western PA largely escaped this "boom/bust", becuase we have been in a bust for such a long time already.

Relax, 'merica is doing just a good as ever. Plenty of corn and livestock are thriving. Once the new owners get here and start killing whitey it will be just like the good old days!

PLAYER57832 wrote:"for better or worse?" Nope, sorry. Pursuit of the almighty dollar does not give a few individuals the right to destroy what everyone else has.

who in the blue hell ever said it did???

PLAYER57832 wrote:

nietzsche wrote:The real state crisis is second to the problem of the unbalance between imports/exports IMO.

True. Or, more like a symtom of the first. It was reliance upon an unsustainable economy that created/allowed for the real estate boom and a "let's not worry about consequences as long as we're making money" attitude that caused the damage to spread so widely.

Ironically enough, western PA largely escaped this "boom/bust", becuase we have been in a bust for such a long time already.

nothing to do with the "unsustainable" mortgages consumers signed? DEMANDED even?

oh yeah, that would imply personal responsibility. Nevermind...

The main reason we are in this mess is this...."people spent/BORROWED way more than they took in or were ever able to pay back." Funny isn't it how you demand the same irresponsibility with our government. IT NEVER ENDS WELL! NEVER!

[tone=seethingsarcasm]Why would people be responsible for paying back a mortgage they can't afford, how's it their fault? The bank gave it to them.[/tone]

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

nietzsche wrote:The real state crisis is second to the problem of the unbalance between imports/exports IMO.

True. Or, more like a symtom of the first. It was reliance upon an unsustainable economy that created/allowed for the real estate boom and a "let's not worry about consequences as long as we're making money" attitude that caused the damage to spread so widely.

Ironically enough, western PA largely escaped this "boom/bust", becuase we have been in a bust for such a long time already.

nothing to do with the "unsustainable" mortgages consumers signed? DEMANDED even?

I believe I did say "unsustainability" AND "let's not worry about the consequences as long as we're making money" .

Phatscotty wrote:oh yeah, that would imply personal responsibility. Nevermind...

The main reason we are in this mess is this...."people spent/BORROWED way more than they took in or were ever able to pay back."

Prime example of why I say you don't even bother thinking before you respond. Because yes, I very much do blame that attitude. BUT, unlike you, I don't JUST blame the consumers.

Phatscotty wrote:[Funny isn't it how you demand the same irresponsibility with our government. IT NEVER ENDS WELL! NEVER!

No, what's really funny is that you STILL insist that is what I have advocated... no matter how many times and how patiently I explain it is most definitely not.

2dimes wrote:[tone=seethingsarcasm]Why would people be responsible for paying back a mortgage they can't afford, how's it their fault? The bank gave it to them.[/tone]

Of course they should be responsible!

BUT, it also should not require an MBA to understand a mortgage contract and too many actually DID require that level of understanding. AND, banks have a responsibility to pay attention to markets, know enough not to issue loans that are plain unsustainable.

Too many of the loans that were issued were plain outright fraudulant. And, sorry, when banks cannot even find the original paperwork to verify that they actually have the right to foreclose... it pretty well shows this is much more than a few borrowers who were ill-advised.

Yeah I guess the cliche' "too good to be true." doesn't apply to a 150% mortgage unless you've got the NBA thing so you can tell.

Yeah but what the US needs to do NOW is find a way how to create more wealth to balance this thing. Research, research, more research. Create new services, better software. Dunno but in the field they are playing now, there is no way to compete with the Chinese. That's the alarm, the US fell asleep on an mirage of wealth.

Either that or the simpler solution that I keep suggestion and nobody gives credit of NUKING CHINA.

lol?

2dimes wrote:Why would people be responsible for paying back a mortgage they can't afford, how's it their fault? The bank gave it to them.

why are people responsible to pay back money they borrowed? (whoever it was borrowed from, but yes, usually a bank)

That's a tough one. Gonna need a few days to google answers.

nietzsche wrote:Yeah but what the US needs to do NOW is find a way how to create more wealth to balance this thing. Research, research, more research. Create new services, better software. Dunno but in the field they are playing now, there is no way to compete with the Chinese. That's the alarm, the US fell asleep on an mirage of wealth.

Either that or the simpler solution that I keep suggestion and nobody gives credit of NUKING CHINA.

lol?

I know a way, but I will never, EVER lay it out. I have hinted at it about 363 times in my economic threads though

nietzsche wrote:Yeah but what the US needs to do NOW is find a way how to create more wealth to balance this thing. Research, research, more research. Create new services, better software. Dunno but in the field they are playing now, there is no way to compete with the Chinese. That's the alarm, the US fell asleep on an mirage of wealth.

Either that or the simpler solution that I keep suggestion and nobody gives credit of NUKING CHINA.

lol?

Uh, really? You can't see how this is creating massive wealth? Do you figure the farmers in Guizhou are the people exporting all the crap?

Phatscotty wrote:

nietzsche wrote:Yeah but what the US needs to do NOW is find a way how to create more wealth to balance this thing. Research, research, more research. Create new services, better software. Dunno but in the field they are playing now, there is no way to compete with the Chinese. That's the alarm, the US fell asleep on an mirage of wealth.

The real problem is that technology has limits and so do resources. Only when we finally recognizet hese two facts and stop relying on growth as some great mantra upon which our entire economy must be based will we come close to suceeding. A sustainable economy may not get quite as many millionaires, but it does get everyone a steady, reliable income over a very, very long term. (try in perpetuity!)

Phatscotty wrote:I know a way, but I will never, EVER lay it out. I have hinted at it about 363 times in my economic threads though

[/quote]Oh, we know your way Phattscotty.. its exactly what the bigwigs have been working toward for about 50, nay 70 years now.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh, we know your way Phattscotty.. its exactly what the bigwigs have been working toward for about 50, nay 70 years now.

just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber....you go and say something like that....and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!

You are developing a nasty habit of telling me what it is I stand for and who I support, and being dead wrong. you can grow up and knock that crap off any time now.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

nietzsche wrote:Yeah but what the US needs to do NOW is find a way how to create more wealth to balance this thing. Research, research, more research. Create new services, better software. Dunno but in the field they are playing now, there is no way to compete with the Chinese. That's the alarm, the US fell asleep on an mirage of wealth.

The real problem is that technology has limits and so do resources. Only when we finally recognizet hese two facts and stop relying on growth as some great mantra upon which our entire economy must be based will we come close to suceeding. A sustainable economy may not get quite as many millionaires, but it does get everyone a steady, reliable income over a very, very long term. (try in perpetuity!)

Phatscotty wrote:I know a way, but I will never, EVER lay it out. I have hinted at it about 363 times in my economic threads though

Oh, we know your way Phattscotty.. its exactly what the bigwigs have been working toward for about 50, nay 70 years now.[/quote]


I disagree. Technology appear to have its limits because we haven't discovered new technology. Resources might be plenty for the new technologies, that should be more eco-friendly. Algae in the future will work for us. Nanotechnology is promising, etc.

i.e. Imagine that scientist find a way to capture enough solar energy in a 10"x10" panel to power a house.

nietzsche wrote:i.e. Imagine that scientist find a way to capture enough solar energy in a 10"x10" panel to power a house.

What would be the point of that? You could never fit inside a house that small.

2dimes wrote:

nietzsche wrote:i.e. Imagine that scientist find a way to capture enough solar energy in a 10"x10" panel to power a house.

What would be the point of that? You could never fit inside a house that small.

every year, the technology increases the space it can cover, as far is this specific scenario is concerned. so long as we keep working it at, eventually the panel/living space ratio will hit parity

Phatscotty wrote:every year, the technology increases the space it can cover, as far is this specific scenario is concerned. so long as we keep working it at, eventually the panel/living space ratio will hit parity

Science is facinating.

2dimes wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:every year, the technology increases the space it can cover, as far is this specific scenario is concerned. so long as we keep working it at, eventually the panel/living space ratio will hit parity

Science is facinating.

I just don't get it with solar panels. My grandpa made his own solar panels in the 70's. Something is clearly standing in the way of advancements, and you can bet your bottom dollar it is gov't backed.

Phatscotty wrote:I just don't get it with solar panels. My grandpa made his own solar panels in the 70's. Something is clearly standing in the way of advancements, and you can bet your bottom dollar it is gov't backed.

Batteries to store the power so you can use it when it's cloudy/night. Currently it's around $8000 to buy a solar system that will power everything in your house except Heat. Before you break even on not buying electricity from the utilities you have to replace the batteries and some of the solar cells.

Oh, the bonus is the batteries require much less space to provide much more power than your grampa's did.