Conquer Club

just vote up at the top.

more what?

So I Googled "stragy" and my good friends there wanted to know if you meant: strategy?

The main strategic difference is that freestyle adds the concept of timing.

Timminz wrote:The main strategic difference is that freestyle adds the concept of timing.

i still don't know what "stragy" is...-the black jesus

owenshooter wrote:

Timminz wrote:The main strategic difference is that freestyle adds the concept of timing.

i still don't know what "stragy" is...-the black jesus

Yeah, I was going to make that joke, but noticed that 2 people beat me to it while I was typing, so I changed it to a *gasp* actual answer.

sorry about the spelling i changed it.

I will say freestyle, and not because I think it is really harder than seq, but for the simple fact, that you can take 10 freestyle players and it will be easier for them in a std seq esc game, yet if you take 10 std seq esc players they will get mauled in a freestyle esc game. Simple fact they cannot keep up to the speed at first. Both have some differences but both are hard in their own right!

Bruceswar wrote:I will say freestyle, and not because I think it is really harder than seq, but for the simple fact, that you can take 10 freestyle players and it will be easier for them in a std seq esc game, yet if you take 10 std seq esc players they will get mauled in a freestyle esc game. Simple fact they cannot keep up to the speed at first. Both have some differences but both are hard in their own right!

I think you are confusing between speed freestyle and freestyle.

Bruceswar wrote:I will say freestyle, and not because I think it is really harder than seq, but for the simple fact, that you can take 10 freestyle players and it will be easier for them in a std seq esc game, yet if you take 10 std seq esc players they will get mauled in a freestyle esc game. Simple fact they cannot keep up to the speed at first. Both have some differences but both are hard in their own right!

In some points, Id agree. I think timing someones attacks and cashing/deploying to block them from an elim or countering them could definately be a perceived skill. But again, this all leads back to the speed of ones computer and their dependance on clickies. I know for a fact i would get destroyed playing FS, not because my skill is lacking, but because my computer isnt that fast and i dont use clickies. I dont take someone losing in FS as neccessarily a bad player, but the majority of great FS players can attack up to 5 places in under 2 seconds... Not really possible to "strategize" that.

There's also those FS tricks like objective based maps that are often taken advantage of, that cant be as easily obtained playing sequential.

It's not just how fast, but when, as well.

Timminz wrote:The main strategic difference is that freestyle adds the concept of timing.

Bingo. Freestyle probably has more strategy because of the timing factor, but I think strategy/skill is a heavier factor for sequential games.

i changed it to speed freestyle.

Master Fenrir wrote:

Timminz wrote:The main strategic difference is that freestyle adds the concept of timing.

Bingo. Freestyle probably has more strategy because of the timing factor, but I think strategy/skill is a heavier factor for sequential games.

I agree. I get mauled in speed freestyle, not because I don't know what to do, but because I play from a wireless laptop with no mouse. A fast connection is something that is priceless in speed freestyle and can't be compensated for. Once I have the last freestyle medal I intend to never play another speed freestyle game.

From my experience the games that require the most strategy are the large board 8 person Doubles games with either no spoils or flat rate and yes they can turn into massive build games, but 95% of the time they do not.

Bruceswar wrote:I will say freestyle, and not because I think it is really harder than seq, but for the simple fact, that you can take 10 freestyle players and it will be easier for them in a std seq esc game, yet if you take 10 std seq esc players they will get mauled in a freestyle esc game. Simple fact they cannot keep up to the speed at first. Both have some differences but both are hard in their own right!

Sequential. Freestyle is mostly all about speed. Being exceedingly fast can overcome poor strategy. Just because someone is fast doesn't make them the strategically better player. Just means they are faster.

Zero chance for being faster to compensate for poor strategy in a sequential game.

Although I enjoy freestyle speed more than the other two, I think that sequential is the most strategic.

Freestyle Casual - These players can usually be found listening to The Final Countdown
Freestyle Speed - Those hotkeys better be placed so you barely have to twitch your fingers
Sequential - You better be able to accurately predict what your opponent is going to do a couple turns in advance, especially in large games.

That's my run on these three, but I don't discourage the other two, as I frequent them every now and then.

-rd

Gold Knight wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:I will say freestyle, and not because I think it is really harder than seq, but for the simple fact, that you can take 10 freestyle players and it will be easier for them in a std seq esc game, yet if you take 10 std seq esc players they will get mauled in a freestyle esc game. Simple fact they cannot keep up to the speed at first. Both have some differences but both are hard in their own right!

In some points, Id agree. I think timing someones attacks and cashing/deploying to block them from an elim or countering them could definately be a perceived skill. But again, this all leads back to the speed of ones computer and their dependance on clickies. I know for a fact i would get destroyed playing FS, not because my skill is lacking, but because my computer isnt that fast and i dont use clickies. I dont take someone losing in FS as neccessarily a bad player, but the majority of great FS players can attack up to 5 places in under 2 seconds... Not really possible to "strategize" that.

There's also those FS tricks like objective based maps that are often taken advantage of, that cant be as easily obtained playing sequential.

I cant attack 5 regions in 2 seconds but i still compete with freestyle. Also i don't have super fast internet or a top of the line computer but i compete because of my strategy. I do think freestyle speed has more strategy just because there is so much more to process in such a short amount of time. There are so many more combinations of attacks and moves to do that can make someone else do something completely different . It is all about predicting what is going to happen before it happens so that you can know what your best play is. Seeing all the possibilities and deciding what you think your best play is. There are lots of fast players who are not good at speed freestyle, the problem is you never see them because they mostly stick to sequential or they are just unknowns. I would argue that knowing your speed, reaction time, and forethought are all more important to a good freestyle speed player than speed, as long as they can attack 1 region every 1-2 seconds. Look at malabrose, he can only attack one every 2 seconds and yet he is #7 on the scoreboard from freestyle speed. Lastly as pointed out by bruce if you stick a sequential player in a freestyle game they are going to have a harder time winning games than a fs player in a sequential game.

ljex wrote:

Gold Knight wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:I will say freestyle, and not because I think it is really harder than seq, but for the simple fact, that you can take 10 freestyle players and it will be easier for them in a std seq esc game, yet if you take 10 std seq esc players they will get mauled in a freestyle esc game. Simple fact they cannot keep up to the speed at first. Both have some differences but both are hard in their own right!

In some points, Id agree. I think timing someones attacks and cashing/deploying to block them from an elim or countering them could definately be a perceived skill. But again, this all leads back to the speed of ones computer and their dependance on clickies. I know for a fact i would get destroyed playing FS, not because my skill is lacking, but because my computer isnt that fast and i dont use clickies. I dont take someone losing in FS as neccessarily a bad player, but the majority of great FS players can attack up to 5 places in under 2 seconds... Not really possible to "strategize" that.

There's also those FS tricks like objective based maps that are often taken advantage of, that cant be as easily obtained playing sequential.

I cant attack 5 regions in 2 seconds but i still compete with freestyle. Also i don't have super fast internet or a top of the line computer but i compete because of my strategy. I do think freestyle speed has more strategy just because there is so much more to process in such a short amount of time. There are so many more combinations of attacks and moves to do that can make someone else do something completely different . It is all about predicting what is going to happen before it happens so that you can know what your best play is. Seeing all the possibilities and deciding what you think your best play is. There are lots of fast players who are not good at speed freestyle, the problem is you never see them because they mostly stick to sequential or they are just unknowns. I would argue that knowing your speed, reaction time, and forethought are all more important to a good freestyle speed player than speed, as long as they can attack 1 region every 1-2 seconds. Look at malabrose, he can only attack one every 2 seconds and yet he is #7 on the scoreboard from freestyle speed. Lastly as pointed out by bruce if you stick a sequential player in a freestyle game they are going to have a harder time winning games than a fs player in a sequential game.

Completely agreed with you in my first sentence: the ability to know what a player will do before they do it in a short period of time is definately a sign of skill. It's just that I dont know if i'd agree that this "skill" is a strategy per se. You can also plan ahead in sequential games for the same exact things, minus the surprise factor, and i dont neccessarily think that strategy is determined by how fast the strategy is made.

Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

L M S wrote:Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

Freestyle Speed is not about map knowledge for the most part, at least not on any of the non complex maps. Though i will grant you that taking advantage of inexperience is key in a lot of games, a game vs another top player is highly skilled. I have had 1 vs 1 fs games that are in round 10-15 and still undecided because each player is matching the other players move for move.

Also what percentage of standard games are random vs freestyle games are random? I would guess its not that different.

ljex wrote:

L M S wrote:Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

Freestyle Speed is not about map knowledge for the most part, at least not on any of the non complex maps. Though i will grant you that taking advantage of inexperience is key in a lot of games, a game vs another top player is highly skilled. I have had 1 vs 1 fs games that are in round 10-15 and still undecided because each player is matching the other players move for move.

Also what percentage of standard games are random vs freestyle games are random? I would guess its not that different.

You just love to argue with me, dont you?
You didn't read what I wrote at all.

There is NO strategy involved in speed freestyle ass doodles/lux, ljex...sorry.

L M S wrote:

ljex wrote:

L M S wrote:Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

Freestyle Speed is not about map knowledge for the most part, at least not on any of the non complex maps. Though i will grant you that taking advantage of inexperience is key in a lot of games, a game vs another top player is highly skilled. I have had 1 vs 1 fs games that are in round 10-15 and still undecided because each player is matching the other players move for move.

Also what percentage of standard games are random vs freestyle games are random? I would guess its not that different.

You just love to argue with me, dont you?
You didn't read what I wrote at all.

There is NO strategy involved in speed freestyle ass doodles/lux, ljex...sorry.

Sure there is! If there was no strategy, then the game couldn't be played due to the absence of any options.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

L M S wrote:

ljex wrote:

L M S wrote:Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

Freestyle Speed is not about map knowledge for the most part, at least not on any of the non complex maps. Though i will grant you that taking advantage of inexperience is key in a lot of games, a game vs another top player is highly skilled. I have had 1 vs 1 fs games that are in round 10-15 and still undecided because each player is matching the other players move for move.

Also what percentage of standard games are random vs freestyle games are random? I would guess its not that different.

You just love to argue with me, dont you?
You didn't read what I wrote at all.

There is NO strategy involved in speed freestyle ass doodles/lux, ljex...sorry.

Sure there is! If there was no strategy, then the game couldn't be played due to the absence of any options.

Sorry, you are right. Go really fast, get the first turn, and pray for good dice is strategy in its own sense to be sure.

L M S wrote:

ljex wrote:

L M S wrote:Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

Freestyle Speed is not about map knowledge for the most part, at least not on any of the non complex maps. Though i will grant you that taking advantage of inexperience is key in a lot of games, a game vs another top player is highly skilled. I have had 1 vs 1 fs games that are in round 10-15 and still undecided because each player is matching the other players move for move.

Also what percentage of standard games are random vs freestyle games are random? I would guess its not that different.

You just love to argue with me, dont you?
You didn't read what I wrote at all.

There is NO strategy involved in speed freestyle ass doodles/lux, ljex...sorry.

Because there is strategy in sequential, assassin, lux/doodle?

ljex wrote:

L M S wrote:

ljex wrote:

L M S wrote:Speed freestyle guys tend to stick to maps they know like the back of their hand. The strategy included was learning the map and perfecting it no matter what happens from the other players because most times your system beats their inexperience no matter what their move is...,sticking to the system, while a valid strategy, is not in my mind harder to execute than the strategy required in a random seq. game.

How many random speed freestyle games are on the board waiting to be joined?
None.

Of course when you are greatly familiar with any map/settings you are going to have a tremendous advantage no matter what the opposition does but, in a seq. game the opponent has the time to develop a counter, that, in speed freestyle, can't be done. Sequential requires you to do more than follow your system....you have to think, plan, react and execute (a lot of the time) a new idea each turn.

Freestyle Speed is not about map knowledge for the most part, at least not on any of the non complex maps. Though i will grant you that taking advantage of inexperience is key in a lot of games, a game vs another top player is highly skilled. I have had 1 vs 1 fs games that are in round 10-15 and still undecided because each player is matching the other players move for move.

Also what percentage of standard games are random vs freestyle games are random? I would guess its not that different.

You just love to argue with me, dont you?
You didn't read what I wrote at all.

There is NO strategy involved in speed freestyle ass doodles/lux, ljex...sorry.

Because there is strategy in sequential, assassin, lux/doodle?

I never suggested there was however, winning those maps in a seq. game doesn't involve being the fastest, which is out of many users control...this is why freestyle in general (especially SPEED freestyle) is a completely different animal and shouldn't be considered in this argument. I play freestyle, but not speed freestyle cause I know I'll get my ass kicked due mostly to the speed of my computer as well as my talent with clickies (albeit to a lesser extent). If you look at the speed games waiting, you can usually count on the same players playing their favorite maps (read the ones they are well versed in). It's suicide to try and challenge KH, Pimp, YOU, The Best, etc. etc..(sorry about your little butt if I left you out), etc....on their favorite maps in speed freestyle.....cause their system will smoke you out of the water anytime.