Conquer Club

Louis Theroux just did a follow up to his documentary on them. It's on BBC iplayer, but seeing as that might be difficult to access, here's a link to youtube:

Part 1

The original documentary is Here

Worth a bit of time if you want to see what life is like inside that church. Both documentaries come in at around the hour mark.

Do you mean "that church" and not "The Church?"
This is certainly an odd "holier than you" bunch.

oVo wrote:Do you mean "that church" and not "The Church?"
This is certainly an odd "holier than you" bunch.

Of course- I've edited the post to remove that ambiguity, but I didn't capitalise church to start with. I wrote "the church" and I've replaced it with "that church". I'm just referring to this church in a very lower case sense. Specifically Westboro Baptist.

It's an amazing documentary, and well worth a watch.

Symmetry wrote:

oVo wrote:Do you mean "that church" and not "The Church?"
This is certainly an odd "holier than you" bunch.

Of course- I've edited the post to remove that ambiguity, but I didn't capitalise church to start with. I wrote "the church" and I've replaced it with "that church". I'm just referring to this church in a very lower case sense. Specifically Westboro Baptist.

It's an amazing documentary, and well worth a watch.

I'm not sure...I think I'd find it too disgusting to watch. The less publicity these extremist groups get, the better, IMHO.

Symmetry wrote:Louis Theroux just did a follow up to his documentary on them. It's on BBC iplayer, but seeing as that might be difficult to access, here's a link to youtube:

Part 1

The original documentary is Here

Worth a bit of time if you want to see what life is like inside that church. Both documentaries come in at around the hour mark.

I haven't looked at it yet, but why would we believe it's anything other than exactly what Westboro wants us to see?

if they tried that shit where i live i would do that drive by and throw fruit at their kids thing. its hilarious.

Woodruff wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Louis Theroux just did a follow up to his documentary on them. It's on BBC iplayer, but seeing as that might be difficult to access, here's a link to youtube:

Part 1

The original documentary is Here

Worth a bit of time if you want to see what life is like inside that church. Both documentaries come in at around the hour mark.

I haven't looked at it yet, but why would we believe it's anything other than exactly what Westboro wants us to see?

I've got a lot of respect for the Louis Theroux. Both documentaries are sympathetic in some ways, but basically allow the members to damn themselves by their own statements.

Westboro were clearly unhappy with the first documentary, and in the second it's made clear that they preach against Theroux now.

Anyway- have a look. It's not Westboro propaganda.

Symmetry wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Louis Theroux just did a follow up to his documentary on them. It's on BBC iplayer, but seeing as that might be difficult to access, here's a link to youtube:

Part 1

The original documentary is Here

Worth a bit of time if you want to see what life is like inside that church. Both documentaries come in at around the hour mark.

I haven't looked at it yet, but why would we believe it's anything other than exactly what Westboro wants us to see?

I've got a lot of respect for the Louis Theroux. Both documentaries are sympathetic in some ways, but basically allow the members to damn themselves by their own statements.

Westboro were clearly unhappy with the first documentary, and in the second it's made clear that they preach against Theroux now.

Anyway- have a look. It's not Westboro propaganda.

I actually think it IS, but not for the reason you are probably thinking. I think it's propaganda in their favor because they don't actually give a shit if ANYONE thinks badly of them...they've made that abundantly clear. So this publicity can ONLY be a positive for them, as it's not possible for it to have any negative consequences.

Ray Rider wrote:I'm not sure...I think I'd find it too disgusting to watch. The less publicity these extremist groups get, the better, IMHO.

I tend to agree -

I saw the first documentry a while back at a mate's house - He had a whole lot of Ross' documentries and we watched a couple of them, including the Westboro church. I felt a little sorry for the kids of the family, they get attacked a lot with flying fruit and shit - but at the same time, it's quite clear that the head lady (the daughter of the preacher?) seems to think that the more people hate them, the more 'pious' they are.

If you remove the media coverage (or oxygen, as you will) doesn't the fire extinguish?

radiojake wrote:

Ray Rider wrote:I'm not sure...I think I'd find it too disgusting to watch. The less publicity these extremist groups get, the better, IMHO.

I tend to agree -

I saw the first documentry a while back at a mate's house - He had a whole lot of Ross' documentries and we watched a couple of them, including the Westboro church. I felt a little sorry for the kids of the family, they get attacked a lot with flying fruit and shit - but at the same time, it's quite clear that the head lady (the daughter of the preacher?) seems to think that the more people hate them, the more 'pious' they are.

If you remove the media coverage (or oxygen, as you will) doesn't the fire extinguish?

Not really. They tend to protest military funerals, saying that they're glad that those people died, which has pissed off more than one family who just wants to lay their loved one to rest.

Also, they certainly did not help Laramie or the State of Wyoming back in 1998 with the Matthew Shepherd case. The media lapped it up and put it out there that Wyoming is a bunch of Southern hicks that are intolerant bigots. Thankfully, a group of University of Wyoming students dressed up in angel outfits with wings and went and stood in front of the Westboro members to block out their signs in front of all the cameras. But in truth, the murder shocked and outraged the entire state. That just doesn't happen here.

muy_thaiguy wrote:Thankfully, a group of University of Wyoming students dressed up in angel outfits with wings and went and stood in front of the Westboro members to block out their signs in front of all the cameras.

Ooooh...I like that idea!

Woodruff wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:Thankfully, a group of University of Wyoming students dressed up in angel outfits with wings and went and stood in front of the Westboro members to block out their signs in front of all the cameras.

Ooooh...I like that idea!

Too bad it hasn't caught on in the last 13 years.

My intention in posting this wasn't to provide free publicity for Westboro Baptist, just to allow people to see what I thought was a really interesting documentary.

I'll just note a couple of thoughts. After the first documentary a lot of the media began paying more attention to the church. As the follow up pointed out, for a lot of the younger church members this was actually the first time they had an opportunity to have contact with the outside world and talk to people who didn't share the views of the church.

The follow up occurred because one of the girls in the first documentary left Westboro Baptist (or more accurately, was kicked out) and wanted him to come back and talk to them about all the people who were leaving.

I guess I've been referring to them as a church a lot, which is only partially right. They are really more of a cult. I can see why people would argue against giving them the oxygen of publicity, but I think in this case it's actually given a lot of the kids involved a way out, or at least a way of talking to people who are not part of that cult.

I'm also really not so sure that they'll stop because of a lack of media attention. I can see it being oxygen for the fire, but I don't think this fire will die out without that oxygen. The hardcore at the centre of the church look like, from the documentaries, a few individuals exerting iron control over their families. Most of the rest seem really confused, or absolutely defer to whoever is watching them. Almost all of the wives simply tell Theroux that they agree with what their husband said. The younger members always have chaperones.

But anyway- I think the media has actually helped weaken the church. Their membership has dwindled, and their message seems even more bizarre than it ever did after these were produced.

These are my arguments, I'll add a poll, and if people still want the links removed, I'll delete them. They're uncomfortable viewing, but I don't think they're harmful.

Documentaries on such contentious issues are just propaganda. It has a set agenda and a limited amount of time to express it. f*ck the Westboro trolls; I won't give them the time of the day.

The Westboro fellas are as racist and violent as pimpdave's Tea Party Death Squads. There's no mistaking that, given their past actions, so what's the point of my wasting even a minute listening to some story about the Westboro Baptists?

Kevin Smith made a movie based on them called Red State

BigBallinStalin wrote:Documentaries on such contentious issues are just propaganda. It has a set agenda and a limited amount of time to express it. f*ck the Westboro trolls; I won't give them the time of the day.

The Westboro fellas are as racist and violent as pimpdave's Tea Party Death Squads. There's no mistaking that, given their past actions, so what's the point of my wasting even a minute listening to some story about the Westboro Baptists?

for the lulz?

Woodruff wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:Thankfully, a group of University of Wyoming students dressed up in angel outfits with wings and went and stood in front of the Westboro members to block out their signs in front of all the cameras.

Ooooh...I like that idea!

Yes, it's been christened "Angel Action" and has been used at other funerals since then as a counter-protest of sorts, although many see it as simply a shield and a sign of human compassion. Moises Kaufman & Tectonic Theatre Project's The Laramie Project, which is a brilliant documentary style play that got turned into a tv movie, captures the original moment and gives you some story behind how the students, led by Matthew Shepard's friend-turned activist Romaine Patterson, got to that place. It's a beautiful story about anger turned to peace. I saw it closing weekend in NY, and the audience burst into applause and hoots & hollers when that monologue was over.

Also, I heard the Hells Angels were inspired by this and offered to escort families to funerals that were being protested. Does anyone know if it actually happened anywhere?

squishyg wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:Thankfully, a group of University of Wyoming students dressed up in angel outfits with wings and went and stood in front of the Westboro members to block out their signs in front of all the cameras.

Ooooh...I like that idea!

Yes, it's been christened "Angel Action" and has been used at other funerals since then as a counter-protest of sorts, although many see it as simply a shield and a sign of human compassion. Moises Kaufman & Tectonic Theatre Project's The Laramie Project, which is a brilliant documentary style play that got turned into a tv movie, captures the original moment and gives you some story behind how the students, led by Matthew Shepard's friend-turned activist Romaine Patterson, got to that place. It's a beautiful story about anger turned to peace. I saw it closing weekend in NY, and the audience burst into applause and hoots & hollers when that monologue was over.

Also, I heard the Hells Angels were inspired by this and offered to escort families to funerals that were being protested. Does anyone know if it actually happened anywhere?

There's an interview in the follow up documentary with a director putting on the play, while Westboro protest it. The Hell's Angels are shown too, but not interviewed.

The footage of the protests is probably the most difficult part of the doc to watch.

squishyg wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:Thankfully, a group of University of Wyoming students dressed up in angel outfits with wings and went and stood in front of the Westboro members to block out their signs in front of all the cameras.

Ooooh...I like that idea!

Yes, it's been christened "Angel Action" and has been used at other funerals since then as a counter-protest of sorts, although many see it as simply a shield and a sign of human compassion. Moises Kaufman & Tectonic Theatre Project's The Laramie Project, which is a brilliant documentary style play that got turned into a tv movie, captures the original moment and gives you some story behind how the students, led by Matthew Shepard's friend-turned activist Romaine Patterson, got to that place. It's a beautiful story about anger turned to peace. I saw it closing weekend in NY, and the audience burst into applause and hoots & hollers when that monologue was over.

Also, I heard the Hells Angels were inspired by this and offered to escort families to funerals that were being protested. Does anyone know if it actually happened anywhere?

Interestingly enough, one of them (the students that dressed up as angels, NOT a Westboro person) ended up being my high school English teacher, and even showed us a picture of her doing it.

Have any of you guys watched the doc yet? I'd be interested in knowing what people who've seen it thought.

Symmetry wrote:Have any of you guys watched the doc yet? I'd be interested in knowing what people who've seen it thought.

It doesn't take place in Laramie. Got past the opening credits, saw the first couple frames, saw it wasn't in Laramie or had people from Laramie, but have never really seen it. I lived it.

muy_thaiguy wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Have any of you guys watched the doc yet? I'd be interested in knowing what people who've seen it thought.

It doesn't take place in Laramie. Got past the opening credits, saw the first couple frames, saw it wasn't in Laramie or had people from Laramie, but have never really seen it. I lived it.

Sure- the parts related to the Laramie Project are in part 2 of the youtube video. Around the 4:15 mark. It's mentioned in the doc, but not extensively.

Symmetry wrote:Have any of you guys watched the doc yet? I'd be interested in knowing what people who've seen it thought.

I've seen it.
Not much to say really, seems like a pretty standard cult.
Don't think they'll disintegrate too soon, they should be able to successfully brainwash at least a couple of the kids.

muy_thaiguy wrote:Interestingly enough, one of them (the students that dressed up as angels, NOT a Westboro person) ended up being my high school English teacher, and even showed us a picture of her doing it.

Your English teacher was a victoria secret angel?